How many Brits have beaten a genuine world number 1?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jul 2007, 12:01

I do agree Pompey and Ian - of course the arguements will always be said after the event. Tszyu, Curry, Robinson, and Holyfield all should definately be considered the clear #1. Although Curry's problems were well documented before the fight... as was say Tyson when he fought Bruno in 1989.

If you limit it to the Original Posters view - then there will not be that many modern fighters who done it period... not just Brits.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jul 2007, 12:30

stujones wrote:Lewis outclassed Holyfield, jesus VM.. thats just wrong.

I think even the biggest Lewis fan .... where is Goz ..... will say that the rematch was close.

Here I am!

You make it sound like I have Lennox posters up all over my bedroom!

There are only 3/4 since I turned 30!

Seriously though with regard to the Lewis-Holyfield fights, over the 24 rounds I would have it about 14-10 to Lewis, not a great deal in it. Did feel that Holyfield couldn't do anymore than he did whereas Lennox could have probably stepped it up but whatever BOTH fights were very close in my book.

Also with regard to Honeygan's win over Don Curry, very unfair to say Curry wasn't at the peak of his powers when he had just come off the 2 round walloping of Mcory. He was at his peak all right, many were talking about being able to jump right up to Middle and beat Hagler!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jul 2007, 12:35

Sorry Goz, I can just remember having some big debates with you (and I think Kilburn) on the Lewis/Tyson/Holyfield in the past.

Curry was a fantastic fighter... one of my old time favourites. However, part of the reason why they were talking about Curry vs Hagler, and Curry vs Mugabi when he was a Welterweight - was because everyone knew he was killing himself to make the weight - or at least not doing the weight correctly.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jul 2007, 13:01

Fair enough, I thought they just talked about Curry moving up due to lack of obvious challengers as he had cleaned out the Welterweight division.

I was quite a bit younger then though (13 I think) so perhaps didn't have an appreciation of the weight issues, just don't remember them mentioning Curry killing himself to make the weight until after Honeygan beat him.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Jul 2007, 13:39

stujones wrote:Lewis outclassed Holyfield, jesus VM.. thats just wrong.

I think even the biggest Lewis fan .... where is Goz ..... will say that the rematch was close.

he boxed his ears off the 1st fight. 2nd fight was fairly close. or rather it was nearly close. i had the rematch 8-4 Lewis which is a fair reflection of a fight that Lewis was controlling, albeit getting lazy and letting Evander in at times. So I scored 9-3 1st fight and 8-4 rematch. OK Evan was competitive 2nd time but that was mostly Lewis being a complacent, laid back prat when he allowed himself to be.

thaibox uk · Post by **thaibox uk** » 16 Jul 2007, 15:02

Saw the Curry v Honey fight for the first time in years a couple of weeks ago and was totally expecting to see a one sided pounding of a weight weakend champion. How wrong was I? Both fighters looked awsome and it was a real war, Honey reached a peak that night he,d never reach again and Curry played his part.
People are mentioning the McCory fight but its the Colin Jones one I most remember Curry for.

Box Office · Post by **Box Office** » 16 Jul 2007, 17:18

If Witter beats Harris I feel that will count

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:08

thaibox uk wrote:Saw the Curry v Honey fight for the first time in years a couple of weeks ago and was totally expecting to see a one sided pounding of a weight weakend champion. How wrong was I? Both fighters looked awsome and it was a real war, Honey reached a peak that night he,d never reach again and Curry played his part.
People are mentioning the McCory fight but its the Colin Jones one I most remember Curry for.

Always seen the fight a bit different. What I have seen was a one sided pounding of a weight weakend champion.

Curry vs Jones and McCory was a completely different fighter... although, I am not saying Honeyghun didn't have the ability to cause even the best Curry problems. I was reminded of Curry's performance on Saturday when I saw Gomez beating Gatti - Curry was out of range, just didn't "look" right even getting into the ring.

I would have loved to have seen Jones vs Honeyghun after the win... Jones wanted it.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:11

Autobarn wrote:
stujones wrote:Lewis outclassed Holyfield, jesus VM.. thats just wrong.

I think even the biggest Lewis fan .... where is Goz ..... will say that the rematch was close.
he boxed his ears off the 1st fight. 2nd fight was fairly close. or rather it was nearly close. i had the rematch 8-4 Lewis which is a fair reflection of a fight that Lewis was controlling, albeit getting lazy and letting Evander in at times. So I scored 9-3 1st fight and 8-4 rematch. OK Evan was competitive 2nd time but that was mostly Lewis being a complacent, laid back prat when he allowed himself to be.

Well politely agree to disagree with that one. My perception of the 1st fight is how you percieved the rematch - pretty much the same scoring. The 2nd fight is very hard to score - although I did think Holyfield won 5 rounds clear.... although wouldn't dispute greatly if you saw Lewis a 7-5 winner. I think Holyfield was much sharper in the rematch and I don't think has taken the credit he deserved for his effort.

states · Post by **states** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:33

Box Office wrote:If Witter beats Harris I feel that will count

I think you might be the only person who does.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jul 2007, 18:56

stujones wrote:
I would have loved to have seen Jones vs Honeyghun after the win... Jones wanted it.

I always thought Jones quit after the Curry defeat? Don't really recall much talk of a fight with Honeygan after he became champ...

I was gutted when Jones lost to Curry, thought he had a chance and was being competitive but that cut was hideous...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Jul 2007, 19:55

Goz wrote:
stujones wrote:
I would have loved to have seen Jones vs Honeyghun after the win... Jones wanted it.
I always thought Jones quit after the Curry defeat? Don't really recall much talk of a fight with Honeygan after he became champ...

I was gutted when Jones lost to Curry, thought he had a chance and was being competitive but that cut was hideous...

My old man is convinced that Jones would have won... I'm not, but Jones was gutted.

I recently got hold of the whole ITV version of Honeyghun vs Curry - a young and more squeeky Barry McGuigan was the studio guest. Dickie Davies announced that Jones had phoned up ITV and called Lloyd out.

Jones though must have been one of the great over achiver. Too think he gave the Skill full McCory fits twice (was lucky to get a draw, especially in the states - he really lost both times and he knew it) and was also being competitive vs Curry.... He didn't look in their league technically.

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 16 Jul 2007, 20:17

Jones was a pretty good fighter...a huge puncher with solid offensive skills, though very one dimensional.Better than any Welter champ of recent years other than Mayweather and probably one of the biggest Welterweight punchers since the '70s.

It was unfortunate he retired early as he had the right style to defeat fighters like Honeyghan and Simon Brown.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2007, 09:42

Arbachakov wrote:Jones was a pretty good fighter...a huge puncher with solid offensive skills, though very one dimensional.Better than any Welter champ of recent years other than Mayweather and probably one of the biggest Welterweight punchers since the '70s.

It was unfortunate he retired early as he had the right style to defeat fighters like Honeyghan and Simon Brown.

Massive pucher, but I think would have been outboxed vs most of the Welter champions since his time. He would have beaten a few.... Baldomir, Santos, Judah (clean KO) Margarito and Mayorga... but not sure if he would be just chasing thin air vs the rest. Mosley would have anhilated him, Forrest would have busted him up with the jab and I think Spinks would have beaten him too.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 17 Jul 2007, 09:52

Arbachakov wrote:Jones was a pretty good fighter...a huge puncher with solid offensive skills, though very one dimensional.Better than any Welter champ of recent years other than Mayweather and probably one of the biggest Welterweight punchers since the '70s.

It was unfortunate he retired early as he had the right style to defeat fighters like Honeyghan and Simon Brown.

I'd have said Brown would have beaten Jones, Simon was one of my favourite boxers when he was at the top. His 1st fight with Trice was brutal.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 17 Jul 2007, 12:39

previous to this era there were a good few, after this era there have been many over the years, from the early Modern Era to this period and a little bit after the British "weemen" were Top the World and during this man's time we had the best this country has ever known from welter to heavyweight...

1939-07-10 Len Harvey White City, London, Engla L PTS 15
BBBofC British Light Heavyweight Title
Vacant Commonwealth (British Empire) Light Heavyweight Title

1939-05-22 Arthur (Ginger) Sadd Manchester, Greater Manch W PTS 15
BBBofC British Middleweight Title
Commonwealth (British Empire) Middleweight Title
1938-04-07 Len Harvey Harringay, London, Englan L PTS 15
BBBofC British Light Heavyweight Title

1937-10-25 Jack Hyams Manchester, Greater Manch W TKO 11
Commonwealth (British Empire) Middleweight Title
BBBofC British Middleweight Title

1937-04-27 Eddie Phillips Wembley, London, England W KO 14
BBBofC British Light Heavyweight Title

1936-04-23 Jack Petersen Earl's Court, London, Eng L PTS 15
Commonwealth (British Empire) Heavyweight Title
BBBofC British Heavyweight Title HW TITLE (!!!)

1936-03-13 John Henry Lewis New York, NY, USA L UD 15
World Light-Heavyweight title, could the other leading MWs have done the same; ???

1936-02-24 Anson Green Philadelphia, PA, USA W PTS 10
1936-02-17 Jimmy Smith New York, NY, USA W KO 2

1935-12-20 Babe Risko New York, NY, USA W KO 1
World middleweight Champion, SPANKED

1935-11-29 Al McCoy New York, NY, USA W UD 10
L-HW cum HW fought Joe Louis

1935-06-24 Al Bourke Manchester, Greater Manch W PTS 15
BBBofC British Middleweight Title
Commonwealth (British Empire) Middleweight Title

1935-01-14 Marcel Thil Paris, France L PTS 15
EBU (European) Light Heavyweight Title

1934-12-03 Kid Tunero Manchester, Greater Manch W TKO 7
Stll highly remembered MW contender, SPANKED

1933-10-09 Archie Sexton Manchester, Greater Manch W KO 10
BBBofC British Middleweight Title
Commonwealth (British Empire) Middleweight Title

1933-04-10 Len Harvey Manchester, Greater Manch W PTS 15
Commonwealth (British Empire) Middleweight Title
BBBofC British Middleweight Title

JOCK MCAVOY...

don't forget Boxing existed long before us and the 30s & 40s were it's heyday!

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 17 Jul 2007, 14:00

states wrote:
Box Office wrote:If Witter beats Harris I feel that will count
I think you might be the only person who does.

Even I don't, unless Hatton moves upto 147 before September

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Jul 2007, 14:27

Of course, David Haye can do in September... There is no excuses if he beats Mormeck.

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 17 Jul 2007, 14:49

stujones wrote:Of course, David Haye can do in September... There is no excuses if he beats Mormeck.

Very true mate, and I hope he gets the credit if he does win, too many of our guys go for the WBOgus title, nice to see somebody actually challenge the real champion.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 17 Jul 2007, 16:09

Randy Turpin vs Sugar Ray Robinson
Ken Buchanan vs Ismael Laguna
John Stracey vs Jose Napoles (though past his best)
Lloyd Honeyghan vs Don Curry
Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan (GMan not number 1 at SM but on this level)
Lennox Lewis vs Evander Holyfield
Ricky Hatton vs Kostya Tsyzu