John Duddy Mistake

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Jul 2007, 20:04

It's officially part of the UK, Ireland is not, thus British. British is right.

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 20:58

Mattyp151 wrote:It's officially part of the UK, Ireland is not, thus British. British is right.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Read up on it before you make unfounded statements. John Duddy is officially an Irish citizen. As is anybody born on the ISLAND of Ireland, which consists of both The Republic of Ireland AND Northern Ireland. Irish citizenship laws state this quite clearly. People born in NI can CHOOSE to be British citizens if they so please, it is quite evident that John Duddy is NOT one of those people. Please stop arguing a point in which you clearly have insignificant knowledge of the subject matter. This is becoming ridiculous.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:00

DMWordsmith wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:It's officially part of the UK, Ireland is not, thus British. British is right.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Read up on it before you make unfounded statements. John Duddy is officially an Irish citizen. As is anybody born on the ISLAND of Ireland, which consists of both The Republic of Ireland AND Northern Ireland. Irish citizenship laws state this quite clearly. People born in NI can CHOOSE to be British citizens if they so please, it is quite evident that John Duddy is NOT one of those people. Please stop arguing a point in which you clearly have insignificant knowledge of the subject matter. This is becoming ridiculous.

N. Ireland is part of the UK with England, Wales, and Scotland, Ireland is not.

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:09

What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.

The Irish Assassin · Post by **The Irish Assassin** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:11

DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.

If your from the UK you are British, i believe is what he has been saying for a while now.

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:16

The Irish Assassin wrote:
DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.
If your from the UK you are british

Ummmm not true. If I have to repeat this again I'm gonna lose it. IRISH LAW STATES THAT ANYBODY BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND (which includes both the Rep. of Ireland AND Northern Ireland) IS AUTOMATICALLY AN IRISH CITIZEN. This is absolutely insane. So if you're from Scotland, are you Scottish or British, if you're from England are you English or British? Britain is NOT a country, so how can somebodies NATIONALITY be British? If anything change his nationality to Northern Irish for crying out loud. Northern Ireland is the NATION he was born in, therefore his NATIONALITY is Northern Irish!!!

The Irish Assassin · Post by **The Irish Assassin** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:18

DMWordsmith wrote:
The Irish Assassin wrote:
DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.
If your from the UK you are british
Ummmm not true. If I have to repeat this again I'm gonna lose it. IRISH LAW STATES THAT ANYBODY BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND (which includes both the Rep. of Ireland AND Northern Ireland) IS AUTOMATICALLY AN IRISH CITIZEN. This is absolutely insane. So if you're from Scotland, are you Scottish or British, if you're from England are you English or British? Britain is NOT a country, so how can somebodies NATIONALITY be British? If anything change his nationality to Northern Irish for crying out loud. Northern Ireland is the NATION he was born in, therefore his NATIONALITY is Northern Irish!!!

according to BOXREC LAW ANYBODY BORN IN THE UK IS BRITISH.

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:21

I'm pretty sure IRISH LAW means a little bit more than BOXREC LAW. This site prides itself on providing correct and accurate information, lets not lower our standards on an issue as simple as this.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:22

DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.

The UK, which is technically called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland, has its residents referred to as British as a whole. Yes, there are Scots, English, and Welsh within, but as a whole, they are referred to as British.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:23

DMWordsmith wrote:I'm pretty sure IRISH LAW means a little bit more than BOXREC LAW. This site prides itself on providing correct and accurate information, lets not lower our standards on an issue as simple as this.

I'm pretty sure no one will care when you stop this rant. It was already discussed.

The Irish Assassin · Post by **The Irish Assassin** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:23

DMWordsmith wrote:I'm pretty sure IRISH LAW means a little bit more than BOXREC LAW. This site prides itself on providing correct and accurate information, lets not lower our standards on an issue as simple as this.

dude, I figure you are right, you probably know more on this than most here, I was just bored and felt like arguing, sorry for wasting your time, I hope you forgive me

TrakNSok · Post by **TrakNSok** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:24

Just for good Measure...

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer
boxer: John Duddy
nationality British
alias Ireland's John Duddy
sex male
residence New York, NY, USA
birth place Derry, N.Ireland
birth name John Francis Duddy
division middleweight
stance orthodox
height 5′ 11″
reach 74
birth date 1979-06-19

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:31

Mattyp151 wrote:
DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.
The UK, which is technically called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland, has its residents referred to as British as a whole. Yes, there are Scots, English, and Welsh within, but as a whole, they are referred to as British.

I guess your listening skills aren't up to standard with your peer's. It's quite obvious that you don't really know what you're saying, so I hope this little argument has brightened up your day. You sound like you need it. You win, big man. This isn't worth arguing about, especially with somebody who has little to no reasoning skills whatsoever. Good luck to you in your future endeavors! I hope you manage to annoy everybody else away from your debates to come as well, because it seems that's the only way you can actually win one...

DMWordsmith · Post by **DMWordsmith** » 18 Jul 2007, 21:35

The Irish Assassin wrote:
DMWordsmith wrote:I'm pretty sure IRISH LAW means a little bit more than BOXREC LAW. This site prides itself on providing correct and accurate information, lets not lower our standards on an issue as simple as this.
dude, I figure you are right, you probably know more on this than most here, I was just bored and felt like arguing, sorry for wasting your time, I hope you forgive me

Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it isn't. No apology needed my friend. It just annoys me when people argue a point on which they have no formal history of knowledge or education. PEACE!

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 19 Jul 2007, 04:35

I originally reverted it to Irish after listening to the arguments.

As somebody who is from one of the "less recognised" countries it annoys me when people think the English-speaking caucasian world begins and ends with America, Canada, England and Australia. It is also ignorant to say it's not important, because to the people of the country, it IS important, clearly. Smaller countries struggle for recognition and suffer being looked down on by "the powers"; surely the least you can do is recognise their sportsmen as they themselves wish to be recognised?

I would originally have argued the case of Duddy being British due to him being from N. Ireland, but having read the many arguments stating why he can legitimately claim to be Irish, I felt it was a sound argument.

If you recognise Cook Islands and not New Zealand, or Guam and not USA, or Guadeloupe and not France, etc etc, when these people do not even have their own nation's passports, then why not accept Irish-passport-carrying, self-titled "Ireland's John Duddy" as being Irish?

A related point to consider for BoxRec management - time to consider separate country fields for England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland? You could still have all-UK and all-Irish ratings, but this would eliminate arguments such as this. Again, if we have country listings for places like Cook Islands, Guam, Greenland etc which are territories/dependencies, then no reason why we can't have separate ones for the constituent parts of Great Britain, which are, after all, officially nations in their own right.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 19 Jul 2007, 04:44

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't one of the rules of the forum suggest using the search feature?

I mean, seriously, did we really need another John Duddy: Irish or British? thread? It's something that's gone back and forth ever since the fighter came to prominance, and to be honest the argument is almost as annoying now as the Hamed bi-monthly comeback thread. Who gives a shit what it say next to his name? Can anyone say that the quality of their life is in any way lessened by the fact that boxrec lists the man as being from the UK? No? Then why can't the subject just die?

Incedentely, and on a completely unrelated subject, Howard Eastman is Guyanese.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 19 Jul 2007, 05:27

Of course nobody's life is lessened by it, but this is a typical response from somebody who is not from the country in question. It's called pride in where you come from. Most people have this, whether they're from the biggest countries in the world or the smallest specks in the ocean. Who are you to tell anybody that their nationality is not important to them?

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 19 Jul 2007, 05:50

PaulMoore wrote:
scottmallon wrote: This has been addressed many times. If you go into the records section of this site, I'm sure you'll get a proper explanation.
Thanks, i did the search, and i read quite a few threads, but the bottom line is that yous are wrong on the matter.

The thing about N.Ireland is that you have a choice unlike Britain, here your either Irish or your British, you have an Irish passport or you have a British passport, i was born and bread in Derry and im Irish, i have an Irish passport which states my nationality is Irish.

I do want to have a civilized discussion about this because after reading some of them threads in the record forum it seems that some people in britain dont relise some things about here, just becuase you are born in N.Ireland does not make you british, why do you think the new N.Ireland council here now is called the British-Irish council? I know alot about N.Ireland and it seems that some people in britain are a little confused on the subject.

But there is no way anyone can dance around the subject, if they only do some research they will see that they are very wrong.

I would like the mods/admin and some right thinking people to give some thoughts on it and if anyone is thinking off jumping in and shouting oh hes in an accupied country so hes Irish or no he lives in Londonderry UK there for hes british then just grow up the lot of yous.

The bottom line is hes Irish, thats his nationality, thats what he has choosen and i think it would be a good thing if the admin he respected that as if he had of choosen british then that would have been his choice and people would have had to agree with that too, but the fact is hes Irish.

So could any of the admin here have a rational discussion on the matter so maybe we could try and work things out?

Thanks everyone :)

Listen pal - Frankly I could give a shit if he's Nigerian, British or Burmese. If you've got a problem with his being British, email the owner of the site. This has been done to death and regardless of whether it's right or wrong, if the owner of the site wants him called British, then he's British. If that doesn't sit well with you, tough shit. Sorry but understand something - this subject has been trampled into the depths of the earth. Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't make a bit of difference and you can argue until the Queen of England becomes a hotty - it's not going to do a bit of good to argue about it here as nobody is going to change it. Get it through your thick skull - EMAIL JOHN SHEP. My guess is he's going to tell you to bugger off, John Duddy's British on this site.

Just like I tell my wife here in Thailand - when we're in my house, this house is FARANGLAND, not Thailand. It's his site and he makes the final call - and he already did. So in fact, you're wrong because on this site, at least for now, John Duddy is British.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 19 Jul 2007, 05:51

oliverfennell wrote:Of course nobody's life is lessened by it, but this is a typical response from somebody who is not from the country in question. It's called pride in where you come from. Most people have this, whether they're from the biggest countries in the world or the smallest specks in the ocean. Who are you to tell anybody that their nationality is not important to them?

It's not their nationality that's in question though is it? It's Duddy's. Pride in where you come from is entirely understandable, but pride in what is says next to someone's name on a profile on a website that is hardly error free as it is?

Bottom line, it shouldn't matter what it says here because Duddy knows where he's from, and the blokes who consistantly complain know where he's from.

And don't presume that I'm not from the country in question. The grandparents on my mother side were from Derry.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 19 Jul 2007, 06:04

DMWordsmith wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
DMWordsmith wrote:What's your point? Can you clarify what you are trying to say because quite frankly I just don't get it.
The UK, which is technically called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland, has its residents referred to as British as a whole. Yes, there are Scots, English, and Welsh within, but as a whole, they are referred to as British.
I guess your listening skills aren't up to standard with your peer's. It's quite obvious that you don't really know what you're saying, so I hope this little argument has brightened up your day. You sound like you need it. You win, big man. This isn't worth arguing about, especially with somebody who has little to no reasoning skills whatsoever. Good luck to you in your future endeavors! I hope you manage to annoy everybody else away from your debates to come as well, because it seems that's the only way you can actually win one...

Well, seeing as he's listed as British, I did win, now, you can drop this pointless topic.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 19 Jul 2007, 06:13

Incidentally, any debates which preceded this one were before I joined, so sorry for adding to it this time with my two cents' worth.

However, does anybody else think we could discuss the merits or otherwise of having separate fields for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

BoxRec does, after all, do this on the schedule and results. For example, Calzaghe-Kessler is listed as taking place in Cardiff, Wales, not Cardiff, UK. But boxers are listed as UK only. There could be a script to allow these nationalities to be listed under British rankings, as well as their own constituent nations.

Again, for example, Puerto Rico is OFFICIALLY part of the USA, but listed as a separate nation here. No reason we can't separate the four parts of the UK.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 19 Jul 2007, 11:23

Not a bad idea mate - sorry to bring it up AGAIN - but as the man said earlier, Duddy holds and Irish passport and under agreements between Eire and UK is allowed to choose a nationality - he has chosen Irish. Personally I could not care what he is listed at its his entry not mine - but what if I were on there and said that I in fact am an Irish Citizen? Would it be changed? What if Duddy asked that he be listed as Irish?

dogaga · Post by **dogaga** » 19 Jul 2007, 16:35

Mattyp151 wrote:
PaulMoore wrote:Also i see that someone of the admin/mods changed it back to British??

What mod/admin done that? Can you come out here and show yourself? And i dont mean that in a confrontasional way, i just wanted to talk about why your trying to lie to everyone and say that John Duddy is something he is not???

I really dont understand this at all, this is the only place that is listing him as british, its an insult to that man, thats exactly what it is, not the fact that hes being called british, he could be called any nationality here and that would be an insult as hes Irish.
Honestly, don't care if he was a fellow Namibian to Harry Simon, doesn't make Duddy a better or worse fighter. Drop and leave it alone.

Thats not true. Duddy is a slightly above average fighter. He got his big hype, because he is Irish...

Rng Anncr · Post by **Rng Anncr** » 20 Jul 2007, 10:48

It occurs to me that the only reason Duddy is listed as British here is to tweak him and his Irish (Catholic) fans.

The fact that the owner is British and that the listing was "re-corrected/changed" back to British indicates that common sense is being ignored (Irish Passport) and old anti-Irish and anti-Catholic games are being played.

That being said...it's your site and you have the right to be a jerk, a racist, a bigot or anything else you choose.

Why you would do so...as a business deciaion, is what confuses me.

But it's your site and your call.

But calling John Duddy British is an insult...especially considering the fact that his Uncle was the first...or one of the first...Irish kids killed on "Bloody Sunday."

This whole thing was avoidable with the original correction.

It really should have ended there.

Whoever changed the listing back to British is the one who stirred it up again...NOT the poster who spotted the change and questioned it.

Joe A.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 20 Jul 2007, 11:21

All I know is its pretty bad when most of the talk about you on a boxing website stems from whether you are English or Irish.

John Duddy Mistake

Re: John Duddy Mistake