John Duddy Mistake

[conan_the_cribber]

Also i see that someone of the admin/mods changed it back to British??


What mod/admin done that? Can you come out here and show yourself? And i dont mean that in a confrontasional way, i just wanted to talk about why your trying to lie to everyone and say that John Duddy is something he is not???

I really dont understand this at all, this is the only place that is listing him as british, its an insult to that man, thats exactly what it is, not the fact that hes being called british, he could be called any nationality here and that would be an insult as hes Irish.

Honestly, don't care if he was a fellow Namibian to Harry Simon, doesn't make Duddy a better or worse fighter. Drop and leave it alone.

At the risk of getting sixteen replies from you Matty, I agree with Paul. boxrec is about impartial accuracy, and Duddy is most likely Irish. Paul was trying to get this point sorted out and none other. It doesn't matter if Duddy is a scrub, contendor or champ, it's about accuracy.

conan

[slappy]

Also i see that someone of the admin/mods changed it back to British??


What mod/admin done that? Can you come out here and show yourself? And i dont mean that in a confrontasional way, i just wanted to talk about why your trying to lie to everyone and say that John Duddy is something he is not???

I really dont understand this at all, this is the only place that is listing him as british, its an insult to that man, thats exactly what it is, not the fact that hes being called british, he could be called any nationality here and that would be an insult as hes Irish.

Honestly, don't care if he was a fellow Namibian to Harry Simon, doesn't make Duddy a better or worse fighter. Drop and leave it alone.

At the risk of getting sixteen replies from you Matty, I agree with Paul. boxrec is about impartial accuracy, and Duddy is most likely Irish. Paul was trying to get this point sorted out and none other. It doesn't matter if Duddy is a scrub, contendor or champ, it's about accuracy.

conan

Besides that, there's also a matter of fans rooting for their own fellow nationals. Imagine saying Tito Trinidad is American (and not Puerto Rican) because the island is a commonwealth of the U.S. In my own opinion it would be cheating Puerto Rican fans out of a hero.

[JCS]

Its all semantics really... "BRITISH" is being used on this site to classify anyone and everyone that hails or calls home to England, Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland. In other words, its being used as an official moniker, rather than to represent someone's heritage.

[glittermonkey]

Its all semantics really... I think "BRITISH" is being used on this site to describe anyone or everyone that hails or calls home to England, Wales, or Northern Ireland. In other words, its being used as an official moniker, rather than to represent someone's heritage.

Uh oh, you left out Scotland.......will you be lambasted or praised?

Edit: Uh oh, you put Scotland back in.....will you be lambasted or praised?

[JCS]

Hmmm..... Maybe Irish is the answer...

The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 applied an entitlement to citizenship by birth to anyone born in Northern Ireland either before or after the coming into force of that Act. Anyone born in Northern Ireland on or before the December 31, 2004 is entitled to be an Irish citizen if they choose to be.

[WayoftheCass]

Its all semantics really... I think "BRITISH" is being used on this site to describe anyone or everyone that hails or calls home to England, Wales, or Northern Ireland. In other words, its being used as an official moniker, rather than to represent someone's heritage.

Uh oh, you left out Scotland.......will you be lambasted or praised?

Edit: Uh oh, you put Scotland back in.....will you be lambasted or praised?

The Catholics regard themselves as Irish. The Protestants British. Its a sensitive issue and John Duddy is Irish in heritage and chosen nationality. Thats it. End of. No need to bring the IRA or anything like that into it as some others have. Boxrec should change it. Its a valid point by the first poster.
This whole 'Its been covered before. Lock the topic' crap has to stop on here. People who live on this forum are under the impression it exists for them only. Some people only drop in occasionally or are new. They have every right to bring up an issue even if it has been discussed before. If you don't like it then the answer is simple. Don't take part in the discussion.

[JCS]

I'm not sure how the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 can be refuted, as its clear by looking at Duddy's nickname that he chooses to be recognized as Irish, or else he would be British John Duddy.

I vote Irish.

Then again, it would have to be handled on a case-by-case basis for all northern Ireland born, or maybe even all in the UK?

Should Calzaghe be recognized as Welsh?

[WayoftheCass]

I'm not sure how the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 can be refuted, as its clear by looking at Duddy's nickname that he chooses to be recognized as Irish, or else he would be British John Duddy.

I vote Irish.

Then again, it would have to be handled on a case-by-case basis for all northern Ireland born, or maybe even all in the UK?

Should Calzaghe be recognized as Welsh?

I would say no as they are not a recognized independent nation as is the case with Ireland.
Ireland has always been vehemenently opposed to British rule where as the Welsh and Scots have only voiced minor political resistance to it. Most Scots and Welsh would not vote for independence from the UK but if you polled the Catholic population of Northern Ireland about 99.9% would.

[emile]

I think an argument for him being British is for consistency, because otherwise it requires that every boxer from Northern Ireland since 1956 has to be polled to determine if they want to be listed as Irish or British. As Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and the Union Jack is the only official flag of Northern Ireland, it can be argued that this is the simplest way to avoid all sorts of back and forth.

Of course it's complex with Duddy, since he's probably the most high-profile fighter from Norn Iron currently, and he has his particularly powerful and compelling family history.

[WayoftheCass]

I think an argument for him being British is for consistency, because otherwise it requires that every boxer from Northern Ireland since 1956 has to be polled to determine if they want to be listed as Irish or British. As Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and the Union Jack is the only official flag of Northern Ireland, it can be argued that this is the simplest way to avoid all sorts of back and forth.

Of course it's complex with Duddy, since he's probably the most high-profile fighter from Norn Iron currently, and he has his particularly powerful and compelling family history.

In fairness its not like this issue comes up very much. in the case of Duddy there is some strong feeling there and i think that should be respected in a spirit of harmony.

[Jabby]

HOLY S H __!!! I, being from Clan Duddy and at the time responsible for these kinds of matters, made a simple request a year or two ago to make that change. Little did I know what controversy it would cause. Since then, I've had to become somewhat of an expert on both the law as it pertains to Irish/British citizenship and the politics behind why BoxRec will not change.

I won't bore you with the law because it's been quoted here ad nauseum. Suffice it to say that if you are born in the counties that have been designated as comprising Northern Ireland, you may choose to be a citizen of one or the other or both Great Britian or the Republic of Ireland. This is a personal decision free to any person born within those counties.

It seems that BoxRec is headed by one John Shepard who believes that the British government has succumbed to Irish terrorists when it approved and enacted the present accords. This attitude taints all decisions made by the private corporation called BoxRec.

Sooooo.....If John Shepard doesn't change his rather ultra-conservative standpoint, I'm afraid Mr. Duddy is resigned to be British --- UNTIL HE LOSES!! That will relegate him back to being Irish.

God Save the Queen

[Rng Anncr]

My point exactly, Jabby.


The fact is that the decision is clearly anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.


The "Duddy is British" argument is a silly smoke-screen for a blatant attempt to tweak Duddy and his fans by labeling him "British."


Common sense, the law, and passport regulations all point to the same obvious conclusion.

He's Irish...he wants to be know as Irish...and to label him otherwise is simply a politically based decision that's both insulting and shortsighted.

There's no doubt that slapping Irish and Catholic fans in the face will cost BoxRec revenue and legitimacy.

The fact is that the owner's desire to insult Irish Catholics is more powerful than the compelling arguments (legal and financial) to correct the listing.


Joe A.

[oliverfennell]

Should Calzaghe be recognized as Welsh?

I would say no as they are not a recognized independent nation

What has Wales got in common with...

American Samoa
Antarctica
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bouvet Island
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Christmas Island
Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Cook Islands
Falkland Islands
Faroe Islands
French Guiana
French Polynesia
French Southern Territories
Gibraltar
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guam
Heard Island and McDonald Island
Hong Kong
Macao
Martinique
Mayotte
Montserrat
Netherlands Antilles
New Caledonia
Niue
Norfolk Island
Northern Mariana Island
Palestine
Pitcairn
Puerto Rico
Reunion
Saint Helena
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Piere and Miquelon
Saint Vincent and The Grenadines
South Georgia and The South Sandwich Islands
Svalbard and Jan Mayen
Tokelau
Turks and Caicos Islands
US Virgin Islands
US Minor Outlying Islands
Wallis and Futuna
Western Sahara

That's right, none of them are "a recognized independent nation"... and yet, all the ones I posted above are listed as nations in the BoxRec system.

Now, if anybody on Planet f'n Earth can venture forth an opinion stressing why the likes of Pitcairn, Tokelau, South Sandwich and Svalbard can have separate entries, yet Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland cannot, I will quite gladly admit defeat on this matter!

*Mental image of doing roadwork in Antarctica, or trying to find decent sparring in the US Minor Outlying Islands (no, that's not Hawaii - Wiki up Palmyra, Wake Atoll, Johnston Atoll, Midway Island). Then again, can't imagine weight-making being much of a problem in Western Sahara*

[emile]

Several of those are independent nations

[jonp]

Come on everyone, lets not bring political stuff into this, i only started this thread so that the mods/admin and good thinking people can talk, not people jumping on mad polictical bandwagons like the jackass up above who started saying that N.Ireland is apart of the UK and the guy who shouted up the NRA whatever that meant, we dont need crap like that in a discussion like this.

Well if you realy wanted to sort it with no fuss why didnt you pm the mods?

[WayoftheCass]

My point exactly, Jabby.


The fact is that the decision is clearly anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.


The "Duddy is British" argument is a silly smoke-screen for a blatant attempt to tweak Duddy and his fans by labeling him "British."


Common sense, the law, and passport regulations all point to the same obvious conclusion.

He's Irish...he wants to be know as Irish...and to label him otherwise is simply a politically based decision that's both insulting and shortsighted.

There's no doubt that slapping Irish and Catholic fans in the face will cost BoxRec revenue and legitimacy.

The fact is that the owner's desire to insult Irish Catholics is more powerful than the compelling arguments (legal and financial) to correct the listing.


Joe A.

A tad extreme Joe.

[glittermonkey]

My point exactly, Jabby.


The fact is that the decision is clearly anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.


The "Duddy is British" argument is a silly smoke-screen for a blatant attempt to tweak Duddy and his fans by labeling him "British."


Common sense, the law, and passport regulations all point to the same obvious conclusion.

He's Irish...he wants to be know as Irish...and to label him otherwise is simply a politically based decision that's both insulting and shortsighted.

There's no doubt that slapping Irish and Catholic fans in the face will cost BoxRec revenue and legitimacy.

The fact is that the owner's desire to insult Irish Catholics is more powerful than the compelling arguments (legal and financial) to correct the listing.


Joe A.

A tad extreme Joe.

And probably a big mistake if you're looking at convincing Shep to change the nationality over. I don't think basically calling someone a short-sighted racial bigot is going to win them over.

[the patriot]

Incidentally, any debates which preceded this one were before I joined, so sorry for adding to it this time with my two cents' worth.

However, does anybody else think we could discuss the merits or otherwise of having separate fields for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

BoxRec does, after all, do this on the schedule and results. For example, Calzaghe-Kessler is listed as taking place in Cardiff, Wales, not Cardiff, UK. But boxers are listed as UK only. There could be a script to allow these nationalities to be listed under British rankings, as well as their own constituent nations.

Again, for example, Puerto Rico is OFFICIALLY part of the USA, but listed as a separate nation here. No reason we can't separate the four parts of the UK.

Unfortunately though, where as you're right in saying that any shows in Cardiff are down as Wales, UK and not just the UK.
There is no longer "Y Ddraig Goch" (Welsh Dragon) as the flag like they used to have, before the site was upgraded !
Its now replaced by the union jack !!

I sent a PM to JohnShep this week about the matter, but unfortunately he is unable to change it !! :(

If I noticed this thread I would've bored you all with my political views intsead of bothering John with a Private Message

JOHN DUDDY IS IRISH !!!!

AND BRING BACK "Y DDRAIG GOCH" !!!!!!!!

[oliverfennell]

Several of those are independent nations

OK, you got me. THREE of the ones I listed are now independent. But I'm sure you get my point!

[yiddo14]

My point exactly, Jabby.


The fact is that the decision is clearly anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.


The "Duddy is British" argument is a silly smoke-screen for a blatant attempt to tweak Duddy and his fans by labeling him "British."


Common sense, the law, and passport regulations all point to the same obvious conclusion.

He's Irish...he wants to be know as Irish...and to label him otherwise is simply a politically based decision that's both insulting and shortsighted.

There's no doubt that slapping Irish and Catholic fans in the face will cost BoxRec revenue and legitimacy.

The fact is that the owner's desire to insult Irish Catholics is more powerful than the compelling arguments (legal and financial) to correct the listing.


Joe A.

Tad paranoid.

Slapping Irish and Catholic(sure many,MANY Brazilians and Italians and other catholics around the world are shocked at Duddy being labelled British!)fans in the face is a bit OTT don't you think?

This is all so trivial.
It's a fvcking website,get over it.
You could list Ricky Hatton(Britain AND Ireland's,in fact..Europe's best fighter)as Chinese and it would'nt bother me(a patriotic ENGLISHman)one little bit.

It's a website...I know what nationality Duddy is,you know what nationality is...and more importantly..we ALL know what nationality John Duddy regard's himself as.

Why does this bother certain people so much???

Playing the typical "anti-Irish,anti-Catholic" card is bollocks,and is nothing but paranoia.

[oliverfennell]

My point exactly, Jabby.


The fact is that the decision is clearly anti-Irish and anti-Catholic.


The "Duddy is British" argument is a silly smoke-screen for a blatant attempt to tweak Duddy and his fans by labeling him "British."


Common sense, the law, and passport regulations all point to the same obvious conclusion.

He's Irish...he wants to be know as Irish...and to label him otherwise is simply a politically based decision that's both insulting and shortsighted.

There's no doubt that slapping Irish and Catholic fans in the face will cost BoxRec revenue and legitimacy.

The fact is that the owner's desire to insult Irish Catholics is more powerful than the compelling arguments (legal and financial) to correct the listing.


Joe A.

Tad paranoid.

Slapping Irish and Catholic(sure many,MANY Brazilians and Italians and other catholics around the world are shocked at Duddy being labelled British!)fans in the face is a bit OTT don't you think?

This is all so trivial.
It's a fvcking website,get over it.
You could list Ricky Hatton(Britain AND Ireland's,in fact..Europe's best fighter)as Chinese and it would'nt bother me(a patriotic ENGLISHman)one little bit.

It's a website...I know what nationality Duddy is,you know what nationality is...and more importantly..we ALL know what nationality John Duddy regard's himself as.

Why does this bother certain people so much???

Playing the typical "anti-Irish,anti-Catholic" card is bollocks,and is nothing but paranoia.

It's not JUST a website, it's the first and last point of reference for the sport!

[Manc_Red]

It dosnt matter if the Mods or Members believe if your from the North of Ireland your british and thats that....

The real thing here is Duddy carry's himself an Irish Passport not a british one, and out of respect the Mods or whoever lists his Country should respect a mans right to do this.

Im Irish and couldnt give a fu*k about the North but I know people up there who do so they deserve a bit of respect.

[slapbangwhallop]

It's officially part of the UK, Ireland is not, thus British. British is right.

actually its not - John Shep will admit that - however, he "uses" a different criteria for assessing nationality then the nations themselves

[slapbangwhallop]

I'm not sure how the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 can be refuted, as its clear by looking at Duddy's nickname that he chooses to be recognized as Irish, or else he would be British John Duddy.

I vote Irish.

Then again, it would have to be handled on a case-by-case basis for all northern Ireland born, or maybe even all in the UK?

Should Calzaghe be recognized as Welsh?

Duddy's management have been on here to get it changed and have contacted John Shep himself to clarify the position regarding his Irish nationality.

John Shep basically told them to fornicate off and refered to Irish people as a - bunch of terrorists who wouldnt bully him into changing it - respectful and balanced huh!

[Rng Anncr]

No...the owner of this site is not respectful and balanced at all. You're 100% correct.

I choose my words very carefully...and I'm standing behind everything I've said on this subject.

If a fraction of what I've been told this site's owner has said about "The Irish" is true...he cares a lot more about standing behind his bigotry than he does about losing fans, site users, legitimacy or revenue.

It's also ironic that while the site has undergone a recent makeover...the owner's views apparently remain stuck in the mid-1970's.

The underlying anti-Irish attitude of it's owner can't be hidden by a few new BoxRec graphics and flourishes.

I'm just surprised Ian Paisley isn't listed as a mod or a contributer.


Joe A.