No More Headgear or Singlets?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 25 Jul 2007, 09:29

There is a movement afoot to abolish headgear and the singlet/jersey at the upcoming AIBA Congress at the World Championships. Personally, I think this is not only dangerous, but is an attempt to move amateur boxing more toward conforming with the pros. It has been proven, time and time again, that the use of headgear has reduced the number of head injuries since its inception in 1984 and it definitely makes cuts practically obsolete. I like the singlets because they do distinguish the amateur boxer and it's easier to identify the corner when judging.

As a diehard amateur fan, I really don't want to see the sport change and become like the pros.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:09

I think the headgear should go, vests can stay! Headgear does reduce the cuts but imo does nothing to prevent internal injury.

Amateur boxing introduced head gear, so if anything is returning to what it once was, which was a far better sport than it is now.

Im glad the AIBA seem to be trying to turn the sport around, with new judging systems and new rules ect.

As a diehard Amateur boxing fan, im all for it returning to the great sport it once was.

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 25 Jul 2007, 10:49

Just a thought, We do need more T.V. coverage and we have continued to loose it in the Olympics, while gymnastics and track continue to take larger segments of air time. Strange as it might sound, loosing the singlet could make a difference for the viewing public to see the physical condition that these athletes are in. Although I understand it is not an indicator of skills it does bring another element into the mix. A boxer like Holyfield drew a lot of attention because of his physical condition. A close friend that is ranked in the top five heavyweights in the world has had a problem getting big money T.V. fights and was told by a promotor that his physique wasn't a big draw to the public. It is cirtainly worth experimenting with, possibly in the Golden Gloves or other national televised tounaments. I am for anything that brings more viewers to amateur boxing, so long as it does not comprimise safety. As far as the the headgear, it is obvious that it does proptect the boxer which is why the pros use it when they spar. It makes no sense to subject these kids to the same kind of danger as the pros, even if it would bring more exposure to the sport, you have to draw your lines somewhere.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 25 Jul 2007, 12:23

Wasn't headgear once an optional thing? I thought the kind of gloves we use as amateurs has more to do with a boxer being hurt/stopped than the headgear (I remember reading amateur glvoes absorb some of the force of a punch, while pro gloves transmit all of it). I can see their thinking behind losing the jerseys, at the same time, why? They do what they're supposed to (prevent abrasions/rope burns and make it easier to distinguish the fighters), so why go without one? We're not being paid, this isn't the pros, so why try to make it like the pros?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 25 Jul 2007, 12:35

Thanks, Kolya.

Headgear, as far as I know, has never been optional in competition. It was no headgear up until the 1980s and then headgear became mandatory starting with the 1984 Worlds (if I remember my facts correctly).

Maybe it's a "guy thing," but I don't understand why seeing a boxer's physique would make the sport more popular. Hmmm.......

And I honestly don't believe that no headgear and/or singlet would make amateur boxing more popular and make TV interested in showing events. Boxing, pro and amateur, is not a wide-spread popular sport. However, pro boxing does bring more fans who basically want to see someone bleed and get pounded into the canvas. The Average Boxing Fan (ABF) does not appreciate good technique and style and is bored with "boxers" rather than "fighters/clubbers."

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 25 Jul 2007, 13:08

It's a guy thing.

"My biceps are bigger than yours! Hardy har har!" I like that reasoning because, at least in boxing, I can reply with a "My reach is longer than yours!"

See, my dad boxed back in the 60's in the Army, and I believe he used headgear-and he said something along the lines of what I said; he wasn't pro, he was amateur and had a full time job to do in the Army, so why risk it. Or something to that effect, I think. Or was it the jersey that was optional? Personally, I like the jersey because it also allows a way to show your club affiliation and what not.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 25 Jul 2007, 13:09

I think they were hoping for all amatuer boxers to not where the jerseys which would definitely increase the viewing of femle boxing - LOL.

I see what some are saying about making it more TV friendly. No jerseys might force some of the SH's to get in better shape and not have all the excess weight.

No headgear - some pros don't wear it to spar and some have then suffered neurological damage. I remember Nate Jones didn't often wear headgear to spar and then had to retire due to the damage he suffered.

Did anyone see the result of B-Hop's head colliding with Winky's eye? That type of thing will happen a lot if headgears are removed from amateur competitions. However, if the choice is NO HEADGEAR vs. the demise of amateur boxing, I will go with no headgear. It just seems that AIBA caved in to peer pressure from the medical community when they implemented the head gear rule and now the questions is as follows: Is AIBA now capitulating to the demands of TV?

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 25 Jul 2007, 13:10

Dennis wrote:I think they were hoping for all amatuer boxers to not where the jerseys which would definitely increase the viewing of femle boxing - LOL.

I see what some are saying about making it more TV friendly. No jerseys might force some of the SH's to get in better shape and not have all the excess weight.

No headgear - some pros don't wear it to spar and some have then suffered neurological damage. I remember Nate Jones didn't often wear headgear to spar and then had to retire due to the damage he suffered.

Did anyone see the result of B-Hop's head colliding with Winky's eye? That type of thing will happen a lot if headgears are removed from amateur competitions. However, if the choice is NO HEADGEAR vs. the demise of amateur boxing, I will go with no headgear. It just seems that AIBA caved in to peer pressure from the medical community when they implemented the head gear rule and now the questions is as follows: Is AIBA now capitulating to the demands of TV?

Forget B-Hop-Winky; did you see Katsidis' face?! It was a horror show!

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 25 Jul 2007, 14:01

It just seems that AIBA caved in to peer pressure from the medical community when they implemented the head gear rule

I hope no one "caved in" when it came to safety. Safety should always be the number one reason to keep amateur boxing the way it is. How many amateur boxers do you know with slurred speech? There are just too many studies that have shown the decline of head injuries since headgear was made mandatory.

and now the questions is as follows: Is AIBA now capitulating to the demands of TV?

I wonder if TV cares enough to make those demands, or if certain people think TV WILL care if headgear and singlets go bye bye. It is also my understanding that some, not all, European and Asian countries are behind this movement and are attempting to get support. Frankly, I hope they don't.

Roberts J · Post by **Roberts J** » 25 Jul 2007, 15:17

Forget B-Hop-Winky; did you see Katsidis' face?! It was a horror show![/quote]

Yes, he has 3 cuts. And the guy he beat, his career is done, bleeing in the brain, minor but his license is suspened.

About amatuer. I welcome the no head gear and even 3x3 min rounds. All the old guys I talked to back in Europe liked it. Amatuer boxing has become like a game of Ping Pong at the International Level. I dont like it , and for me as a boxer, I would love to see this change. Thats boxing, people get hurt, thats the nature of the sport. The jerseys should stay though.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 25 Jul 2007, 15:57

About amatuer. I welcome the no head gear and even 3x3 min rounds. Amatuer boxing has become like a game of Ping Pong at the International Level. I dont like it , and for me as a boxer, I would love to see this change.

Just out of curiosity, can you describe why you would like no headgear and 3X3 rounds? And what would be your take on a no "ping pong" game? I'm really interested in what you think. :)

Roberts J · Post by **Roberts J** » 26 Jul 2007, 14:04

I would like no head gear beacause I simply belive thats the way boxing should be. When I was training in Europe alot of times, in Belarus,Russia, we never sparred with head gear. And I'll tell you I liked it better. Its just something that I think would be better. But that is jsut my opinion. The rounds 3 x 3 seem more reasonable to me. It seems like a actually fight to me. On the ping pong, I mean, the Russians Cubas would still implet there same styles of boxing. But, it wouldnt be lackluster, hit and run hit and run. There would be some intrugue in it. But this is just a opinion from a boxer, whatever they decide will be good. My father used to box in the Soviet Union and he said it was much more competive like that. Just my 2 cents !

the_boxer · Post by **the_boxer** » 26 Jul 2007, 15:12

no headgear thats crazy thats why thiers pros we not getting paid so why risk it thats juss really dumb i would not even wanna see the fights no more everybody is not good like in the pro's so they can't protect they self as well so thats juss dumb

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 26 Jul 2007, 15:29

the_boxer wrote:no headgear thats crazy thats why thiers pros we not getting paid so why risk it thats juss really dumb i would not even wanna see the fights no more everybody is not good like in the pro's so they can't protect they self as well so thats juss dumb

You haven't watched Wedensday Night Fights lately, have you? Not everyone who's a pro is good.

the_boxer · Post by **the_boxer** » 26 Jul 2007, 15:43

yeah but them the guys that take the risk for the money$$$ and 100 percent of the time they get knocked out lol

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 26 Jul 2007, 15:47

the_boxer wrote:yeah but them the guys that take the risk for the money$$$ and 100 percent of the time they get knocked out lol

Some of these guys you see on FNF and WNF with undefeated records and all are sorry, though. I saw this one who was like 15-0 on FNF on the Darnell Wilson undercard, he was like 6'3 and maybe 168 I guess, and man, he was bad. He had like 10 amateur fights, I was sitting there watching going "if this bum can get on FNF and be undefeated, so can I".

the_boxer · Post by **the_boxer** » 26 Jul 2007, 16:11

oyeah i missed that fight but yeah it is some sorry one's out thier lol

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 26 Jul 2007, 23:24

Roberts why do you want to keep the jerseys?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Jul 2007, 09:01

Another thought re the headguards........very effective in preventing cuts, cauliflower ears and perforated eardrums. If headguards are no longer mandatory, you're going to see lots of bouts stopped on cuts and the cut boxers on 30, or more, days restriction.

Roberts J · Post by **Roberts J** » 27 Jul 2007, 11:18

Dennis wrote:Roberts why do you want to keep the jerseys?

It would actually depend. Yesterday I was sparring. After 4 rounds I took of the head gear and my shirt, I must say, I felt a lot better, with it off. Although the jerseys distinguish amatuer boxers. I can do both

emile · Post by **emile** » 27 Jul 2007, 11:33

I agree with Mel that cuts from headbutts would become a problem. It could really mar the big tournaments if good boxers had to be DQ'd because they got cut in a fight they were winning. On the other hand, I feel like a lack of headgear is more in line with the essence of the sport, giving more of an advantage to the stronger fighter.

They should come up with a smaller gear that will prevent cuts. Something like the gear that some soc.cer players who have had multiple concussions wear.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Jul 2007, 11:40

On the other hand, I feel like a lack of headgear is more in line with the essence of the sport

But which sport are you talking about....amateur or pro? To me they are two separate entities and not to be compared...different rules, different scoring criteria......The reason I like amateur boxing is because there is a real art and technique to being able to score punches as opposed to the pros who waltz, lumber, slap, foul, dance and are, otherwise, for the most part, boring. Just my opinion, of course.

I have spoken with several of our amateur ringside doctors who have many years of experience. They are definitely against getting rid of headgear - especially from the point of view of stopping cuts.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 27 Jul 2007, 13:14

It's NOT a good idea to remove the headgears in amateur boxing. The intensity is so high you will have a lot of headbutts and fights stopped due to cuts.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 27 Jul 2007, 15:59

Getting rid of the head gear would cause that much more amateurs jump into the pros to soon, since won't be that much difference. And eventually no body would take the time to have a nice amateur carrer due to it. (is just my opinion )

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 27 Jul 2007, 21:22

When you are trying to run a boxing program and recruit kids to particiate, you already have problems with parents that relate pro boxing to Amateur boxing. One of the key elements to getting parents to alow participation is when you are able to bolster the fact that amateure boxing is so much safer than the pros, then back it up with things like rules and protective gear. Then I use the stats of injuries pecentages per other sport in comparison. Loose the headgear and we loose boxers, some that have become great amateurs and pros. As far as I am concerned, no matter how macho the old days were, my first obligation to these kids is to keep them as safe as possible in a sport that can be dangerous, even with larger gloves and headgear.