Earnie Shavers vs. Ernie Terrell

[Trajan]

The "Acorn" vs. the "Octopus." Who wins the battle of E(a)rnies?

This might have made for a most interesting night, there was some talk of it 30 or so years ago. But nothing happened.

Shavers would come out swinging, going for the knockout as he always did, Terrell meanwhile moving, jabbing and piling up points with those long arms as was his style. Shavers did best (usually) against those contenders who chose to slug it out with him, certainly he got the better of Ken Norton and Joe Bugner (though Jerry Quarry had more success). Yet Muhammad Ali (in a controversial decision) and Larry Holmes used more of a "scientific" style to keep Shavers away and won, even while still (inevitably) getting hit some shots. I see Shavers-Terrell about the same, Ernie T. boxing his way to a 15 (or 12) round win, though he might well be knocked down at least once. Of course, a Shavers fight was always hard to predict...

Anthony

[Sweet Scientist]

I'm not so sure Terrell would have gotten back up if he caught Shavers' best shot...I would take Shavers in this fight. Actually, that's somewhat unusual for me, as I tend to like a boxer over a slugger in a match that seems even at the start...Terrell never impressed me as a slick & quick 'boxer'...he always seemed to 'pawing' at his opponent, trying to tie him up in a clinch...
This fight might be similar to the first Terrell-Cleveland Williams fight, TKO by Williams...

[Jaclem]

i really hate it when a thread appeals to me, and i have an answer all ready, and then somebody like sweet scientist gives such a perfect assessment that it leaves me with nothing to add.


fooey.

[Sweet Scientist]

It's not just who a fighter fought, it's also WHEN he fought him...

I don't believe that you can come up with a fair and accurate assessment of a fighter's career based on what the guy did when he was past 35 years old...

Shavers was over 35 when he lost to the likes of Chaplin, Santemore, Tillis, Cobb, & Mercado...

Terrell was 35 when he was TKO'd in the 1st round by Jeff Merritt...
I can't hold that against him...he was old!

Now I realize that some of the 'modern' heavyweights keep fighting until they're eligible for Social Security...

STILL...You couldn't judge Joe Louis' career by what he did against Marciano, Ezzard Charles or Jersey Joe Walcott, could you?

You couldn't judge Larry Holmes' career by what he did against Michael Spinks or Mike Tyson, could you?

You couldn't fairly judge Ali's career by what he did against Shavers, Jimmy Young or Larry Holmes, could you?

You couldn't judge Jack Johnson by the Jess Willard fight...
You couldn't judge Jim Jeffries by the Jack Johnson fight...

Jack Dempsey is rated (by many boxing historians) ahead of Gene Tunney even though he lost twice to Tunney...after a three year layoff and after he was over 30 years old...

It's not just who they fought, it's WHEN they fought...

Cleveland Williams TKO'd Terrell in their 1st fight...
Terrell won a close decision in their 2nd fight....

I would say it would be more accurate to state that Terrell SPLIT with Williams at his best, not BEAT Williams at his best...

In the end, styles make fights...
Earnie Shavers had all the power neccessary to KO Terrell if he hit him.

[Sweet Scientist]

No abusive, name calling rebuttal to the above post???

Amazing!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Knickers! Will that do.

Seriously though, excellent points. I would add this caveat though.

Some of fighters greatest achievements come after their primes, as a slightly dissipated fighter has to adapt in order to overcome opponents they would have whipped in their primes.

Ali is a perfect example of this, post suspension, he became a totally different fighter, and relied on power of will, physical resilience, pacing, psychological war of attrition, where before he simply overwhelmed people with his tremendous physical advantages.

However, I agree that every fighter at the very end of their career looks awful.

The career of Willie Pepp is very interesting, as is Archie Moore, as both men even long past their physical primes were able to give contenders a real hard time. Pepp's career was remarkably long, and the fact that he was only stopped 5 times in 241 bouts shows what an amazing all around fighter he was.

It's a shame nobody ever medically analysed Archie Moore, I would love to know whether he was genetically predisposed toward not ageing quickly, some people's internal organs and muscle structure doesn't decline with age as much as others, and Archie's physical strength well into his late 40's was pretty amazing. So was Foreman's.

[knockout artist]

Terrell by wide decision, whether over 10, 12 or 15 rounds.

[silkov]

Sam Minto is another old-timer whose longevity is amazing .... he fought for well over 30 years. Also British boxer Billy Bird was active for 30 years in ring. Lets not forget Roberto Duran, another 30 + years career.
What many of these fighters have in common is that they are clever skillful boxers.... and therefore capable of extending there careers long after the passing of their physical peaks.