Opinions on what USAB needs to get better.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 31 Jul 2007, 11:56

This can be one of those times that us people from outside USAB come out with some ideas, or recommendantions or maybe some help to better the organization,I think we can see a different picture from outside the box. (Anyone? I know there is lots o room for improvements. )"maybe if we all put each a penny we may fill the jar"

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 31 Jul 2007, 12:04

More International Experience, USA boxers hardly ever cross the pond in to Europe & Asia to box in Major tournaments!

While you Box Cubans regular this does not help against the Eastern European style that you face against in the Olympics & World Championships, and the reason you will strugle to get Medals.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 01 Aug 2007, 11:05

We need more international experience for MORE U.S. boxers. This would include JO, U-19 and open boxers. We need to have more coaches being selected for the trips so that more coaches can learn some valuable lessons too. I would also like to see more training camps for boxers and coaches. The coaches need to learn new training techniques and exchange information with other coaches to make all the coaches and boxers in the U.S. better. Lets raise the level of competition so that the competition at the national tournaments is better and the winners have a better chance against the rest of the world.

I also think that USAB needs to hold more coaches clinics so that coaches can attain the Level 3 and 4 status. I would like to see them spread around the country too, not always in Colorado Springs. Why not host one in Marquette, MI, another in Lake Placid, NY, another in Brownsville, TX, another in Colorado Springs, CO and a final one in Oxnard, CA. These are just some cities where major tournaments or training camps have been held and are spread out geographically. When was the last time USAB hosted a Train the Trainers clinic? When will they schedule another one?

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 01 Aug 2007, 21:42

Dennis, Getting the level 3 and 4 will help, but the clinics don't address how USA Boxing wants us to get these kids ready for international compititions. Thats why they feel it is so nessesary to get the kids to Co. for the camps ect. I would really like if the coaches clinics addressed what they beleives we should be working on and why ( international scoreing ect.) so we could do the same type of preperation at home. As far as conditioning, either you are doing the right work and your kid is in shape or he is not. You can only do so much before you are overtraining and that is just as bad as not doing enough. I believe if more energy was spent on these things with coaches, then every boxer would be in the roughly the same position when they were ready for international comps.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 02 Aug 2007, 11:40

I agree Hal. I also think that USAB could videotape the clinics and then they could be "hosted" around the country. It is just too expensive for some coaches to take time off work and travel to CS, CO. I know many coaches that turned down the chance to go to Colorado Springs because it took too much time. They, like all of us, would be better coaches if more of us could experience the clinics. I know that if I were able to I would host that type of clinic to educated more of our local coaches. I give Level I clinics and would really like to give Level II and III clinics, but I have to go to CS, CO and then coach international competitions before I can do that. I'm not sure THAT makes sense. It is like USAB wants to limit the number of Level 3 and 4 coaches. I think they should be encouraging everyone to move up.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 02 Aug 2007, 11:41

Hal - USAB also needs to do a better job of marketing our sport. I know you and I have talked about this before, but it needs to be done now rather than later. Look at my post in the "Boxing program to be cancelled at NMU" thread.

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 02 Aug 2007, 12:41

I did read your post and did reply. Every time I see anything that takes away from our sport I get sick to my stomach. I have been looking at this new MMA, not because I like it but I watch what they are doing to market it. Foget the sport itself, but look at how aggresivly it is being promoted and how fast it is growing. I love the sport of boxing but this sport is a bussiness and must be run as a bussness, complete with marketing. There is an old bussness addage that says "don't wait till times are good to advertise" I know there is very little money in USA Boxing for promotions but if we don't promote it. we lose moore ground.We ahve to look at the promation of amateur boxing as an investment. I hope that Mr Millman can help put Amateur boxing in the public eye before we loose more interest from the outside. You don't need to market boxing to the people already involved with it. We have to stars of tommarrow right in our hands. If any other sport had the equivilant they would jump on the chance to promote it. In fact the media would be all over it before they made a move. A young athlete from our area just got a full ride to Auburn as a running back. The media covered it like a blanket and will continue as long as he is playing the game. But have one of the top amateur boxers in the country and they will do a nice little story if you call them. We have lost much ground and maby too much. I don't know, it's just frustrating when you are giving your life to something that you feel in the back of your mind is slipping away. Kind of like farming.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 02 Aug 2007, 14:50

ABA - unfortunately, we do not box the Cubans regularly. We need competitions with them, too, (outside of the Pan Ams, Worlds and Olympics) just like we need competitions with the Eastern European boxers.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 02 Aug 2007, 14:56

Mel what would be easier, take teams to other countries or putting together international tournaments in the USA so other countries come to us.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 02 Aug 2007, 15:59

It's cheaper to take our boxers out of the country because those trips are funded by the USOC. If we were to put together international tournaments here, we would need sponsors with big bucks and venues willing to host (including comped rooms and other stuff), let alone finding free time on our national calendar to do it.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:28

It may be less expensive to USAB to send boxers overseas, but if USAB started to market amateur boxing better they could make money hosting international shows and tournaments. Besides, people in the states would then get to see the homegrown talent.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:33

squarering wrote:I did read your post and did reply. Every time I see anything that takes away from our sport I get sick to my stomach. I have been looking at this new MMA, not because I like it but I watch what they are doing to market it. Foget the sport itself, but look at how aggresivly it is being promoted and how fast it is growing. I love the sport of boxing but this sport is a bussiness and must be run as a bussness, complete with marketing. There is an old bussness addage that says "don't wait till times are good to advertise" I know there is very little money in USA Boxing for promotions but if we don't promote it. we lose moore ground.We ahve to look at the promation of amateur boxing as an investment. I hope that Mr Millman can help put Amateur boxing in the public eye before we loose more interest from the outside. You don't need to market boxing to the people already involved with it. We have to stars of tommarrow right in our hands. If any other sport had the equivilant they would jump on the chance to promote it. In fact the media would be all over it before they made a move. A young athlete from our area just got a full ride to Auburn as a running back. The media covered it like a blanket and will continue as long as he is playing the game. But have one of the top amateur boxers in the country and they will do a nice little story if you call them. We have lost much ground and maby too much. I don't know, it's just frustrating when you are giving your life to something that you feel in the back of your mind is slipping away. Kind of like farming.

Hal - I know how you feel, but MMA and other groups (IFL) have shown that it can be done. Keep calling the media to do those nice little stories. They may turn into bigger stories later on. I call the papers and TV stations to get media coverage and it helps. It isn't as great as I would want, but if I don't call we get even less or none at all. If you get something that works, spread the word because it will help the sport. I'm all for sharing ideas since having a good program in one area, but having crap in other areas hurts our sport. We need it to be strong all over the country and then it will be easier to "sell it".

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:45

but if USAB started to market amateur boxing better they could make money hosting international shows and tournaments

If marketing brought in big sponsors who were willing to underwrite the costs so they wouldn't be born by USAB, I agree. In the 20 years I've been around, and having worked admin on many tournaments, I have yet to see USAB make a profit on any event. We generally lose money.

Did you notice that there is an ad on the USAB web site for a Marketing Director?? Hmmmmm...........

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:52

I agree with all coaches around the nation should be calling the media if they have a successful boxer or history in their team, ( I just see a small problem with that, @ least in our region publicity creates a negative reaction from other coaches)is that the case in your regions ?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 02 Aug 2007, 18:16

Hugo wrote:I agree with all coaches around the nation should be calling the media if they have a successful boxer or history in their team, ( I just see a small problem with that, @ least in our region publicity creates a negative reaction from other coaches)is that the case in your regions ?

Yeah, it is called jealousy. Happens all the time. I would rather see ANY boxer get publicity than no boxer get it. Making the calls and staying in contact with your sportswriters and sports broadcasters helps. I am starting to know most of them now. Any publicity helps. Even doing stuff on public access TV works. I once was on a talk show on our local cable TV public access station that was hosted by a friend. We had 3 boxers and 2 coaches/dads on the show. My son and I were on it and he was only about 9 or 10 at the time. The show was aired on multiple occasions and I couldn't believe how many people saw it. I had many people tell me that they saw it and then they would ask me follow-up questions. It is something that can be done.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 02 Aug 2007, 19:38

Luis Ramos and Ronnie Rios from So. Cal. get excellent coverage in the local paper. Their club's shows get the same spectators - other boxers, coaches, friends and family. There just isn't an interest outside of a few fans.

ringrat4life · Post by **ringrat4life** » 03 Aug 2007, 14:45

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 03 Aug 2007, 17:14

Mario - I remember when Jim Fox signed the contract deal with ABC but it was only for a set amount of years. I think it ran out in 1994....??? We knew all along that it wasn't forever. Unfortunately, no one took the ball and ran with it afterward.

The USOC actually funds the international events, so there really isn't any excuse for not sending our boxers abroad.

See you in Houston. 8)

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 03 Aug 2007, 23:21

Mario - I remember watching amateur and pro boxing on network TV back in the 70's. I fell in love with the sport and then started competing in 1980. I think if we can get more TV coverage we can get more young people to fall in love with the sport just as I did many years ago. The more people get involved, the more fans we gain.

Mel - you are correct. There is no excuse for not sending our boxers to international competitions. Are the National JO champs going to the World Cadet Championships? I sure hope so.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 04 Aug 2007, 15:21

I would hope our JO champs go, too. I'll see what I can find out.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 04 Aug 2007, 16:48

Let us know if you find out Mel.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Aug 2007, 12:44

Yes, we are sending a team to the Cadet Worlds. No, I don't know who's going. There will be a training camp the end of August in Texas.

kidscoach · Post by **kidscoach** » 05 Aug 2007, 13:14

Of the myriad of things that need to be imroved at USA Boxing, I find it hard to understand why USA Boxing isn't insuring that all of the grassroots hometown coaches are well-versed in the differences that their athletes will encounter when they meet international boxers. The coaches that train boxers day in and day out need to know what to teach in addition to their standard training. You can't train an athlete to excell here in the States, then expect them to change things in a short "camp" prior to their international competition and be successful. The same coaches that brought that athlete to their peak at home need to be the ones in the corner at EVERY bout possible. USA Boxing should be making a massive effort to insure that personal coaches are included in everything that affects that athlete. We need more international clinics for the personal coaches, help them learn the different styles and particulars that are across all the ponds, help them bring that heightened level of training to their athletes, not just scoop up the cream of the crop, take them to "camp", and leave those coaches in the dust. The clinics and certifications need to be tuned toward the success of the coaches, especially the seasoned coaches that are the bread and butter of our sport. Any coach that grooms an athlete to be so successful as to make the Olympic team, especially, should be given all the assistance and preference possible to be in his athlete's corner for every bout, especially in the Olympic arena!!!! I have heard rumblings that only the Olympic Coaches will be allowed to corner at the Olympics, and I think that is terribly wrong for the the athlete, the coach, and the country. We have almost an entire year here now to help those personal coaches to be ready to coach on the international level if their athlete makes the Olympic Team. What an opportunity we have!!! The United States is just not going to be able to step into the limelight until we change this goofy system we have of handling our athletes. Another issue closely tied to this, I think all coaches should be taught to judge. And I mean JUDGE. Not just "awwww, we won that". That would help them see where the system has taken us, and they will be better be able to train their athletes. USA Boxing has a lot of work to do. I hope they will reach out to our entire family and put boxing where it should be in this country!!

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Aug 2007, 21:42

Any coach that grooms an athlete to be so successful as to make the Olympic team, especially, should be given all the assistance and preference possible to be in his athlete's corner for every bout, especially in the Olympic arena!!!! I have heard rumblings that only the Olympic Coaches will be allowed to corner at the Olympics, and I think that is terribly wrong for the the athlete, the coach, and the country.

This is not a USA Boxing decision but an IOC mandate. There is no way in the world that the IOC will credential every single personal coach for every boxer. Let's say, hypotheticallly, 110 countries send 11 boxers. Personal coaches would amount to an additional 1210 people. Then, of course, every other sport would want their personal coaches to attend also. Ain't gonna happen. Can you imagine the logistics involved in housing and feeding that many people! Remember, not too long ago, the IOC asked boxing and wrestling to cut their numbers so I don't think they are going to add thousands more. Yes, only the picked Olympic coaches will be in the corners of our boxers at the Olympics (and the corner of every other boxer from all the countries that enter). It has always been this way and won't change. There is a certain amount of people allowed per NGB delegation and no more. There are 11 boxers, a team manager, a coach and 2 assistant coaches and maybe a technical advisor. Period.

I definitely agree with you that every coach - and boxer - should learn how to judge. I have done training sessions at the OTC in Colorado Springs before the Championships. Almost every coach and boxer who has taken the training has admitted that they didn't know how hard it was!

kidscoach · Post by **kidscoach** » 05 Aug 2007, 23:39

I see how the logistics would be difficult for the Olympics. Obviously I, as well as the majority of the coaches in this country, have never been there. But I still think the personal coaches should be more involved and included in the other International bouts and training. Our certification clinics don't seem to speak to the things that we need. The Level 4 that I attended primarily involved "learning" someone's boxing training techniques. And these were basic techniques.- That was all well and good, but I would have liked to learn more about the differences of the various international styles, logistics of traveling to another country with a team, more of the nitty gritty of the judging in other countries, etc. Teach me about management of the team, politics, and show me some tapes of international bouts, and critique them with me. Help us learn things we can take home and implement in our gyms.
If the coaches and boxers were indeed taught how to judge, I do think that some their training techniques would change. Those cute little "shoeshines" that they think are so great would be seen as the waste of time and energy that they are, and we would see athletes using their energy to deliver more clear shots. Coaches might be able to teach a cleaner style that allows more blows to be seen and be counted.