Hatton-Mayweather Observation

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 08 Aug 2007, 07:56

Anybody else think that it's very possible that Hatton could get KO'd by Mayweather? Just thinking back through his career, Ricky seems to have been stunned a few times in fights where he has been hit without seeing the punches coming. When he's charging forward he's expecting to be hit, but I think Mayweather is so quick and accurate that he is likely to catch Ricky off guard far more than he is used to. If he can move and turn away from Hattons charges he may be able to land enough leather to really hurt him. I think Rickys only way of winning this fight is by constant smothering but Floyd is smart and I've never seen him tire over twelve rounds. His power should not be underestimated either - remember De La Hoya was also badly stunned at one point during their fight. Personally I think Hatton has looked a bit of a mess when he has been hurt late in the past, most notably Collazo and during the final round of the Tackie fight. Floyd would surely be able to take more advantage of a situation like that should it arise.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Aug 2007, 08:00

If Hatton draws him into a fierce pace and refuses to give him room, the punches he takes will have little effect. They may mark him up but that will be all. As with the Tszyu fight. Tszyu was a monster of a puncher and hit with terrific leverage.

How old's Hatton? 26 or 27 I think. If he can make it a lively fight, Mayweather will really feel that he's in with a pressure guy in his prime.

Albert · Post by **Albert** » 08 Aug 2007, 08:11

Mayweather's and Hatton's footwork is tremendous, how they get themselves into the totally correct position to plant their shots. Fascinating how and why so many people give Ricky a viable chance. I want and am desperate to see him win, just cannot see how.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:19

Autobarn wrote:If Hatton draws him into a fierce pace and refuses to give him room, the punches he takes will have little effect. They may mark him up but that will be all. As with the Tszyu fight. Tszyu was a monster of a puncher and hit with terrific leverage.

How old's Hatton? 26 or 27 I think. If he can make it a lively fight, Mayweather will really feel that he's in with a pressure guy in his prime.

Hatton is 29

Why do you think Hatton will get close to Mayweather and stop Mayweather from punching? It isn't easy to do that, you have to land something coming in, ie beat your opponent to the punch. Now Mayweather is likely to be the 1 beating Hatton to the punch. Secondly if Hatton does try to close the gap he leaves himself open to counters. Fast counters from a boxer like Mayweather are more likely to land flush than . Thirdly Hatton doesn't use his jab, which is the way your supposed to close the gap against a pure boxer. Fourthly when Mayweather is on the ropes hes slippy and hard to land on and he isn't on the ropes for that long, he'll side step, or turn Ricky round.

Ricky may win this but it will not be easy. He will have to walk through so hurtful shots. He will have to have his defense the tightest its been and use his jab allot to close the gap. Just being relentless and rough is blatantly not enough but he needs to bring that too. Clever fouls like wrestling Mayweather into positions where his defense aren't as effective, holding and hitting, butting, using elbows, hip punching and low blowing will aid Rickys chances.

Can Mayweather stop Hatton? Yes, if he hits him often and hard enough. Both are possibilities. Mayweathers power is underrated and if Hatton is just planning on lunging in with no jab he'll have a painful night.

People also don't consider the possibility that Mayweather will bring the fight to Hatton. What if Mayweather moves in and out, gets his punches off without been hit constantly beating Hatton to the punch while landing damaging shots. Why do everyone assume Mayweather will just sit back, counter and pot shot? He didn't against Gatti, Mitchell, Brussells or Judah. Its only his last 2 hes been ultra defensive and against Castillo he was somewhat too. Mayweather bringing a boxing masterclass and bringing some serious pain is not out of the question.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:34

Hatton is 28.

Yes Floyd can stop him, i have no doubt Floyd does have the firepower.

Can't see it happening though, as he wen't negative and couldn't wobble chinny Judah, went negative against Baldomir. went negative aainst De La Hoya etc. Hatton throws an average of 200-300 more punches in a fight than Floyd does, and for that matter, aGREAT deal more than Floyd's last 5 or 6 opponents do. And if he was negative against them (and could only knock out the truly shot and hopeless) then i can't see him being all attack and finding the stoppage against the solid chinned Mancunian. No doubt Floyd has good lightweight power if you get me so i think he as an okay punch, and could zing Hatton with counters (which would win him rounds and eventually the fight) if Hatton does not fight the right way.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:39

mattym wrote:Hatton is 28..

29 when he fights PBF though who will be 30

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:40

Mayweather doesn't move anywhere near as much as he used to. He's a lot more flat footed, but is no real puncher himself. He just hits correctly. This is no longer the super featherweight who could punch, move, punch and constantly change angles. He carries more weight now and is a guy who likes to fight with economy. That sounds like bad news to me, with Hatton being a pressure fighter with fast feet and mobility.

One thing abot being so refined is that when you reach that stage you tend to lose a fair bit in the dynamic qualities they once had. In other words he's very muhc in the veteran stage and more than ever likes to win as "quietly" as possible.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:47

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:Hatton is 28..
29 when he fights PBF though who will be 30

lol Hatton IS 28. Hatton will be 29 at the time yep.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:50

a lot of people underestimate just how difficult it is fighting the bigger guys in boxing. As you move up the weight classes using movement becomes harder and like VM said its no longer constant changing of angles, it tends to be flat-footed or getting moved backwards by his opponent. Against the relentless pace of Hatton i think this spells trouble. Hatton is the bigger stronger man, and the on-paper ideologies of skilful Floyd just side-stepping and countering the opponent are not the case in practise - it hasn't been the case since super-feather really (not against good opponents).

Albert · Post by **Albert** » 08 Aug 2007, 09:59

If nothing else and you wish to criticise PBF then fine, but the one thing he has in his armoury which is beyond dispute is his accuracy. That spells trouble for Hatton who regardless of his coruage and relentless onslaughts he does get caught an awful lot.

Another key issue is this and it is something very few have touched on. Hatton has fought very few boxers who thoroughly enjoy boxing on the back foot and quite simply countering anything he does, its almost as if Hatton bullies his opponents into submission.

Against PBF he will not be able to do this. PBF loves countering and loves making a fool of opponents who enjoy coming forward.

I cannot believe some of you are over looking this.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:11

Floyd isn't the 'counter machine' everyone seems to make him out to be. Look at why he's lost about 12 rounds in his last three fights. Sometimes he goes negative under the pace and pressure of the oncoming opponent, and goes into his shell. He countered Gattin and all those super-feathers with ease but Hatton is a lot bigger stronger and quicker at closing the gap. i don't think Floyd's movement and counterpunching will transpose for a win against Hatton, and he'll know it afer the first few rounds of fighting Ricky. How much will he up his game? He'll have to do an AWFUL lot more fighting than he did against Baldi or Judah or De La Hoya, because Hatton throws almost double the amount of punches they do per fight.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:39

mattym wrote:a lot of people underestimate just how difficult it is fighting the bigger guys in boxing.

Hatton is the bigger stronger man, ).

No he isn't the bigegr stronger man both weigh around 147lbs on fight night at low bodyfat levels. Mayweather is 5'8 with a 71inch reach, Hatton is 5'6 with a 66inch reach. Hatton maybe stronger but this isn't a certainty. Hatton is shorter and has a smaller reach than anyone Floyds fought since Pre-2002

Mayweathers last 2 opponents were bigger and stronger than Hatton.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:41

Yeah I was surprised at how Floyd was able to stand and trade with De La Hoya at times. There wasn't as much cat and mouse in that fight as I was expecting.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:42

Terry D wrote:It is not beyond the realms of reason that Floyd himself could be hurt. We cannot say one-hundred percent that his chin is granite simply because few people have landed the 2nd and 3rd shots in a sequence on him.

As Michael Corleone said: "If history has taught us anything it is that anyone can be knocked-out."

Well I think the point of the thread is everyones writing off Mayweathers offensive arsenal and hyping up Hattons offense. Yes Mayweather can be hurt but he took flush shots from DLH, Judah and Castillo. His chin certainly isn't china

Basically the fight boils down to who can get their shots off first? Who can have the most effective footwork? And can either fighter take the other out late if they're behind on the cards.

If the answer to the first 2 is Mayweather I can't see Hatton winning.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:44

mattym wrote:Hatton throws almost double the amount of punches they do per fight.

Hatton has thrown 700-800 punches a fight against lesser fighters. If he can't get near Mayweather (lunging in wildly won't help him land) and he keeps getting beaten to the punch his punch output may go down fast

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 10:55

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:Hatton throws almost double the amount of punches they do per fight.
Hatton has thrown 700-800 punches a fight against lesser fighters. If he can't get near Mayweather (lunging in wildly won't help him land) and he keeps getting beaten to the punch his punch output may go down fast

Collazo was the elusive type, with a bigger reach advantage than Floyd, and he was a natural welter whihc means he is more likely to be dictating the movement around the ring than Floyd will be (as Hatton is the stronger man). Hatton threw 741, an average of 62 per round, and landed 259 - 35%.

Against De La Hoya and Baldomir Floyd only landed 207 and 199 punches respectively.

Puts into into perspective really, when the Floyd can't hit a comeforward slow plodder like Baldomir anywhere near as much as Hatton could hit the elusive and rangy Collazo.

Prioves my point - tendancy to be negative. Hatton will exploit.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 08 Aug 2007, 11:01

Great though Mayweather is, he was clocked by DeMarcus Corley, a back foot fight forced to make the fight.

He was also given hell by Castillo at 135 pounds.

Mayweather is exceptional but to make believe he can make Hatton looked wild, lunging and avoid him all night is beyond absurd in my book.

At some point, Mayweather will have to fight Hatton. It boils down to how long Hatton can keep him there and how much damage he can inflict.

Hatton can be buzzed too but he's sturdy enough to walk through the odd shot land his own. I give him a massive chance in this. The odds look good to me.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 11:03

mattym wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:Hatton throws almost double the amount of punches they do per fight.
Hatton has thrown 700-800 punches a fight against lesser fighters. If he can't get near Mayweather (lunging in wildly won't help him land) and he keeps getting beaten to the punch his punch output may go down fast
Collazo was the elusive type, with a bigger reach advantage than Floyd, and he was a natural welter whihc means he is more likely to be dictating the movement around the ring than Floyd will be (as Hatton is the stronger man). Hatton threw 741, an average of 62 per round, and landed 259 - 35%.

Against De La Hoya and Baldomir Floyd only landed 207 and 199 punches respectively.

Puts into into perspective really, when the Floyd can't hit a comeforward slow plodder like Baldomir anywhere near as much as Hatton could hit the elusive and rangy Collazo.

Prioves my point - tendancy to be negative. Hatton will exploit.

Comparing Mayweather to Collazo is foolish because Collazo wasn't particularly elusive. Standing in close and brawling as he did against Hatton and Rivera is not elusive. Collazo didn't use his reach and didn't Collazo is not 1/10th of the defensive boxing genius Mayweather is. Collazo fights more like Morales than Mayweather.

Floyd could have hit Baldomir far more but he had a broken hand and never got out of second gear. If Mayweather needs to do more he can. If he has more countering opportunities he throws more punches. Hatton would give far more countering opportunities than Baldomir did, who gave up opening up after being outclassed.

You also ignore that Floyd won every round against Baldomir whereas Hatton lost 5rounds against Collazo. Its not quantity its about quality. It will be interesting to see how Collazo-Mitchell goes.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 08 Aug 2007, 11:17

Mosley was able to catch Collazo almost as easily as Hatton did, only he won the fight handily because he was able to avoid being hit. Hatton clearly easier to hit but only so much can be taken from these stats anyway.

The Final Punch Stats
Mosley: 200 of 601, 33%
Collazo: 87 of 639, 14%

Power Shots
Mosley: 173 of 378, 46%
Collazo: 67 of 350, 19%.

The Final Punch Stats
Hatton: 259 of 741, 35%
Collazo: 213 of 712, 30%

Power Shots
Hatton: 254 of 637, 40%
Collazo: 167 of 471, 35%.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 11:18

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Hatton has thrown 700-800 punches a fight against lesser fighters. If he can't get near Mayweather (lunging in wildly won't help him land) and he keeps getting beaten to the punch his punch output may go down fast
Collazo was the elusive type, with a bigger reach advantage than Floyd, and he was a natural welter whihc means he is more likely to be dictating the movement around the ring than Floyd will be (as Hatton is the stronger man). Hatton threw 741, an average of 62 per round, and landed 259 - 35%.

Against De La Hoya and Baldomir Floyd only landed 207 and 199 punches respectively.

Puts into into perspective really, when the Floyd can't hit a comeforward slow plodder like Baldomir anywhere near as much as Hatton could hit the elusive and rangy Collazo.

Prioves my point - tendancy to be negative. Hatton will exploit.
Comparing Mayweather to Collazo is foolish because Collazo wasn't particularly elusive. Standing in close and brawling as he did against Hatton and Rivera is not elusive. Collazo didn't use his reach and didn't Collazo is not 1/10th of the defensive boxing genius Mayweather is. Collazo fights more like Morales than Mayweather.

Floyd could have hit Baldomir far more but he had a broken hand and never got out of second gear. If Mayweather needs to do more he can. If he has more countering opportunities he throws more punches. Hatton would give far more countering opportunities than Baldomir did, who gave up opening up after being outclassed.

You also ignore that Floyd won every round against Baldomir whereas Hatton lost 5rounds against Collazo. Its not quantity its about quality. It will be interesting to see how Collazo-Mitchell goes.

He's more elusive than bloody Carlos Baldomir thats for sure!

i don't think 'genius' is enough to help Mayweather. Hatton's roughhousing and fast pace will take Floyd out of his stride imo. Obviously Floyd won't just lie back and accept defeat he'll fight back to make it close.

Btw Floyd DID NOT win every round against Baldomir, early on he was negative and not doing enough to win each round, i gave Baldomir 2 and scored 1 a draw, but tstill i see your point mate.

Mayweather has had plenty of 'countering opportunities' against Baldomir and De La Hoya but didn't use them all. He went negative on the ropes at time against both of them. Hatton would throw hard shots to the body on the ropes which would in turn slow Floyd down an awful lot.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Aug 2007, 11:55

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:a lot of people underestimate just how difficult it is fighting the bigger guys in boxing.

Hatton is the bigger stronger man, ).
No he isn't the bigegr stronger man both weigh around 147lbs on fight night at low bodyfat levels. Mayweather is 5'8 with a 71inch reach, Hatton is 5'6 with a 66inch reach. Hatton maybe stronger but this isn't a certainty. Hatton is shorter and has a smaller reach than anyone Floyds fought since Pre-2002

Mayweathers last 2 opponents were bigger and stronger than Hatton.

Define stronger.

Do you reckon that Oscar is physically stronger than Hatton, do you think he could bench more, squat more, is more explosive, or has better stamina and fitness than hatton, because I don't at all.

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 12:11

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:a lot of people underestimate just how difficult it is fighting the bigger guys in boxing.

Hatton is the bigger stronger man, ).
No he isn't the bigegr stronger man both weigh around 147lbs on fight night at low bodyfat levels. Mayweather is 5'8 with a 71inch reach, Hatton is 5'6 with a 66inch reach. Hatton maybe stronger but this isn't a certainty. Hatton is shorter and has a smaller reach than anyone Floyds fought since Pre-2002

Mayweathers last 2 opponents were bigger and stronger than Hatton.
Define stronger.

Do you reckon that Oscar is physically stronger than Hatton, do you think he could bench more, squat more, is more explosive, or has better stamina and fitness than hatton, because I don't at all.

Hatton is definitely the stronger man for me. Lower center of gravity, shorter arms and legs, stockier more mesomorphic somatotype - he'll be pushing Floyd back imo

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 08 Aug 2007, 12:21

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
mattym wrote:a lot of people underestimate just how difficult it is fighting the bigger guys in boxing.

Hatton is the bigger stronger man, ).
No he isn't the bigegr stronger man both weigh around 147lbs on fight night at low bodyfat levels. Mayweather is 5'8 with a 71inch reach, Hatton is 5'6 with a 66inch reach. Hatton maybe stronger but this isn't a certainty. Hatton is shorter and has a smaller reach than anyone Floyds fought since Pre-2002

Mayweathers last 2 opponents were bigger and stronger than Hatton.
Define stronger.

Do you reckon that Oscar is physically stronger than Hatton, do you think he could bench more, squat more, is more explosive, or has better stamina and fitness than hatton, because I don't at all.

Theres different types of strength but overall Oscars strength, size, power is greater than Hattons. Hes carrying round 10-15lbs of more mass than Hatton.

I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true. Remember how Urango threw Ricky around?

Rickys strength is his stamina of strength, he can continually apply his strength and continually pressure. But lets not pretend Mayweather hasn't fought stronger fighters, fitter fighters or quicker fighters because he has. He just hasn't tasted Rickys unique combination of the 3

mattym · Post by **mattym** » 08 Aug 2007, 12:24

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: No he isn't the bigegr stronger man both weigh around 147lbs on fight night at low bodyfat levels. Mayweather is 5'8 with a 71inch reach, Hatton is 5'6 with a 66inch reach. Hatton maybe stronger but this isn't a certainty. Hatton is shorter and has a smaller reach than anyone Floyds fought since Pre-2002

Mayweathers last 2 opponents were bigger and stronger than Hatton.
Define stronger.

Do you reckon that Oscar is physically stronger than Hatton, do you think he could bench more, squat more, is more explosive, or has better stamina and fitness than hatton, because I don't at all.
Theres different types of strength but overall Oscars strength, size, power is greater than Hattons. Hes carrying round 10-15lbs of more mass than Hatton.

I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true. Remember how Urango threw Ricky around?

Rickys strength is his stamina of strength, he can continually apply his strength and continually pressure. But lets not pretend Mayweather hasn't fought stronger fighters, fitter fighters or quicker fighters because he has. He just hasn't tasted Rickys unique combination of the 3

how do you know what Hatton 'benches' i assume you're talking about 1 rep maxes?

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 08 Aug 2007, 13:00

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true.

Was that during the time he was gettng help from the kind people at BALCO?