Boxing program to be cancelled at Northern Michigan

[boxmel]

(*in between getting picked up and BODYSLAMMED

Just being curious - did the referee either caution or warn your opponent for the above?

[Kolya]

- and word is though that there was a strong undercurrent that swept the program out to sea in the form of LETTERS written by some of the programs athletes.
Basically, the IDEA seemed well enough (combining SCHOOL & TRAINING) yet the overall system was flawed in regards to being too one sided.

'nuff said.

Completely off topic; but were you down at Ringside? I think I saw you.

Yep, i was there. i was one of the unfortuanate souls who smacked his opponent around (*in between getting picked up and BODYSLAMMED) for 3 minute and a half rounds - then lost due to the horrific judging.
What to do?
So much for a GLORIOUS combeback after almost 2 decades!

Jose De La Rosa's coach, right? I Saw you fight that man, he won it last year, didn't he? But if you are him, then yeah, that was a sketchy decision. Everytime you came close he went to your waist level and wrapped up around you.

[rickyraytaylor]

Completely off topic; but were you down at Ringside? I think I saw you.

Yep, i was there. i was one of the unfortuanate souls who smacked his opponent around (*in between getting picked up and BODYSLAMMED) for 3 minute and a half rounds - then lost due to the horrific judging.
What to do?
So much for a GLORIOUS combeback after almost 2 decades!

Jose De La Rosa's coach, right? I Saw you fight that man, he won it last year, didn't he? But if you are him, then yeah, that was a sketchy decision. Everytime you came close he went to your waist level and wrapped up around you.

Yes, jose's coach. And yes, dude won last year.
AND YES, he got down really low and grabbed me around my waist a few times. -NEW Boxing move I guess. *In the LAST ROUND they stopped me from punching him, took a point from him & allowed me to pound him some more - THEN declared him the winner!!!
*Standing & waiting in the center of the ring for SEVERAL minutes watching the judges BANTER the scorecards while the powers that be reach through the ropes to offer CONDOLENCES is a sure sign that TRAGEDY looms.
Unfortunately for my sake, RINGSIDE PRODUCTS, INC. & my family have a sordid, personal history behind us ~
~and for the most part it wasn't all pretty. 'nuff said.

**At the end of the day however, JOHN BROWN and DAVE LUBS put together one heck of a show & I'm honored to have taken part.

[rickyraytaylor]

- and word is though that there was a strong undercurrent that swept the program out to sea in the form of LETTERS written by some of the programs athletes.
Basically, the IDEA seemed well enough (combining SCHOOL & TRAINING) yet the overall system was flawed in regards to being too one sided.

'nuff said.

Did the athletes think that the program was too focused on the boxing? Most college sports (at least at the D1 level) are very focused on the sport and make huge demands on the athletes. However, if they are getting their education paid for they shouldn't complain too much. Try getting a job and working enough hours to pay for the housing, meals, tuition, books and fees and see how much free time they have. Scholarship athletes are given a huge opportunity that most students would relish.

not hardly dennis. in my time in the OEC program - & i was up there for over 3 years - education was secondary. i remember al mitchell saying bluntly, "your BOXING got you here so THAT'S what you need to focus on - your BOXING. It's BOXING A & education B."
That was a pretty big pill to swallow DAILY during my Jr & Sr years in college up there.
All night study sessions were nonexistent while 5:30am runs 6 & 7 days a week reigned in their place.

[boxmel]

not hardly dennis. in my time in the OEC program - & i was up there for over 3 years - education was secondary. i remember al mitchell saying bluntly, "your BOXING got you here so THAT'S what you need to focus on - your BOXING. It's BOXING A & education B." That was a pretty big pill to swallow DAILY during my Jr & Sr years in college up there.
All night study sessions were nonexistent while 5:30am runs 6 & 7 days a week reigned in their place.

You have an interesting point of view. If boxing was first and education second, why is it that some of the boxers who have been in the program graduated and others have not? Were the boxers who graduated more interested in getting a degree than others who didn't?

[Dennis]

The boxing did get you the scholarships and provided you with an education. Did you have to work or take out loans to pay for your tuition, room & board, and books?

Many students would gladly give up working 8-10 hours a day, 50-60 hours per week to pay for their college education and just train 3 or so hours a day.

From what I have heard the focus of the program has shifted in recent years and is more focused on the educational end. The athletes have to perform in the classroom as well as in the ring.

[boxmel]

The boxing did get you the scholarships and provided you with an education. Did you have to work or take out loans to pay for your tuition, room & board, and books?

Dennis, as far as I know everything was supplied gratis.

[Dennis]

That is what I thought. It is hard to complain about having some demands on your time of 3 hours or so a day when you are getting a FREE education. I would have loved that opportunity.

[Dennis]

Just a link to the other thread about Chinese athletes coming to NMU. If the boxing program is shut down, then Chinese boxers won't come again and USOEC boxers won't go to China again. I think this is just another reason to keep the program going.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 599#872599

[rickyraytaylor]

(*in between getting picked up and BODYSLAMMED

Just being curious - did the referee either caution or warn your opponent for the above?

Yes, they finally took a point away from the guy in the 3rd round for bending WAY over and grabbing my waist when I was pounding him - this was of course IN BETWEEN grabbing my arms, pushing me around the ring & eventually throwing me down.
I felt like I was in a MOSH PIT!
That was my 138th fight - it was his 2nd - so you can imagine the CHASM that seperated us yet, somehow 2 of the judges thought he beat me.

[rickyraytaylor]

not hardly dennis. in my time in the OEC program - & i was up there for over 3 years - education was secondary. i remember al mitchell saying bluntly, "your BOXING got you here so THAT'S what you need to focus on - your BOXING. It's BOXING A & education B." That was a pretty big pill to swallow DAILY during my Jr & Sr years in college up there.
All night study sessions were nonexistent while 5:30am runs 6 & 7 days a week reigned in their place.

You have an interesting point of view. If boxing was first and education second, why is it that some of the boxers who have been in the program graduated and others have not? Were the boxers who graduated more interested in getting a degree than others who didn't?

Well, to answer your question as to why "I" graduated the NMU/USOEC program ~ I was already an incoming JUNIOR when I got there in '89. It took me 3 years & a full-load in summer school to graduate ('92).

*Though I heard they finally eased up on the daily 5:30am runs after I'd left, I'd bet anything that it was STILL virtually impossible to graduate up there within 5 years and continue training at an Olympic level.

[boxmel]

That was my 138th fight - it was his 2nd

Howinthehell did they ever let a novice in the ring with an open boxer!! This is the biggest reason our insurance premiums are so high. Are you sure he only had 2 bouts???? If true, that's criminal.

I'd bet anything that it was STILL virtually impossible to graduate up there within 5 years and continue training at an Olympic level.

Seems to me that if the goal is to train at an Olympic level AND get a degree, too, 5 years isn't out of the question. Medical students go to 4 or 5 years of med school and then 2 or more years of residency to become proficient before they practice. Plus I think things have changed in the 15 or so years since you've been there. And congrats on being one of the graduates.

[rickyraytaylor]

The boxing did get you the scholarships and provided you with an education. Did you have to work or take out loans to pay for your tuition, room & board, and books?

Many students would gladly give up working 8-10 hours a day, 50-60 hours per week to pay for their college education and just train 3 or so hours a day.

From what I have heard the focus of the program has shifted in recent years and is more focused on the educational end. The athletes have to perform in the classroom as well as in the ring.

Room, board, books were ALL paid for by the OEC.
What many people do not understand is the STRESS level involved with living/training up there. Mind you; you're basically in the middle of NOWHERE; the college town in the Upper Peninsula is remote and EXTREMELY COLD pretty much year round; MUCH time is spent indoors with countless hellraisers from around the country who just like YOU - have had a chip on their shoulder since their first shoolyard fight; we swam twice a week after training usually until around midnight; training consisted of PLENTY of sparring *(and I aint talkin sparring with BEGINNERS here); weight-training, diet monitoring,
Boxing is encased in a very competitive framework yet, when you are eating, sleeping, running and training with your sparring partner DAILY, the level of aggression is somehow heightened.

And of course we competed plenty.
If you WIN, you remain. You LOSE ... then maybe lose again when you shouldve WON, you go home. Period.

Regarding school - If you PASS, you remain. If you FAIL, you go home. OH - and remember the BOXING/A - education/B clause.

**Combine all of this with the typical stress, aches & pains of trying to graduate college and you begin to understand the HIGH turnover rate up there. It was basically a revolving door.

[rickyraytaylor]

That was my 138th fight - it was his 2nd

Howinthehell did they ever let a novice in the ring with an open boxer!! This is the biggest reason our insurance premiums are so high. Are you sure he only had 2 bouts???? If true, that's criminal.

I'd bet anything that it was STILL virtually impossible to graduate up there within 5 years and continue training at an Olympic level.

Seems to me that if the goal is to train at an Olympic level AND get a degree, too, 5 years isn't out of the question. Medical students go to 4 or 5 years of med school and then 2 or more years of residency to become proficient before they practice. Plus I think things have changed in the 15 or so years since you've been there. And congrats on being one of the graduates.

Regarding my 100+ bouts and dudes 2 - you gotta remember; we're fighting 90 second rounds & 18 oz gloves. Honestly, I barely even sweated until they announced him the winner .... then I broke out in a COLD-SWEAT!
Yup, I'm sure plenty has changed since my tenure up there and all in all it was a valuable learning experience.

[boxmel]

Ahhhh! You're a Masters Division athlete!!! I still think 138 bouts to 2 bouts isn't fair and could be asking for trouble.

I spent many years going to NMU for the JOs, beginning in 1988. One year it rained all week; one year it was absolutely beautiful weather and the rest of the time it was 90 degrees hot and 100% humidity! Or vice versa. My husband was up there one summer when it was 120 degrees in the ring. I'm sure you remember the no air conditioning in the dorms or Hedgecock Field House.

[rickyraytaylor]

Ahhhh! You're a Masters Division athlete!!! I still think 138 bouts to 2 bouts isn't fair and could be asking for trouble.

I spent many years going to NMU for the JOs, beginning in 1988. One year it rained all week; one year it was absolutely beautiful weather and the rest of the time it was 90 degrees hot and 100% humidity! Or vice versa. My husband was up there one summer when it was 120 degrees in the ring. I'm sure you remember the no air conditioning in the dorms or Hedgecock Field House.

hmm, to be honest with you - no, i do not remember it EVER being hot up there because the FEW weeks that it was over 60 degrees, I was back home in Mississippi relieving my mind in a MUCH needed break.
but yes, i do remember hedgecock fieldhouse and the surplus of HEATERS in the place of AC's!!

[boxmel]

I was always up there in summer. Went last year and the mosquitos were huge. Ugh.

[Kolya]

Mel, I guess you've never had the distinct misfortu....err, pleasure of visiting the DC area, huh? Nothing like building the capital on a reclaimed swamp.

[boxmel]

Nope. Been to Marquette and Augusta; going to Houston this month. Haven't had the pleasure of DC in summer. Maybe one of these days I'll be so lucky.

[Dennis]

Mel - Marquette isn't hot very often. That is the reason they didn't have a/c in the rooms. If you think it is hot there, try the southeastern part of the country in the summer or the Gulf coast. Brownsville was pretty hot a couple of summers ago. Now Ricky probably remembers the LONG WINTERS of the U.P. I would think that would definitely be more of a problem for the athletes.

[Dennis]

Ricky - I can understand how a bunch of bored boxers cooped up together could be a major problem.

You graduated from the program and yet seem to be quite critical of it. If you didn't like it, why didn't you go back home and attend the school you had been attending prior to NMU? You stated that you already had 2 years under your belt.

Many universities have a revolving door, especially for the Freshmen and Sophomores. Many young people struggle with college, not just boxers.

[boxmel]

Dennis, it was hot and humid 90% of the times I was there. Augusta, GA in summer ain't cool either and I looked at Houston's temperature at 11 p.m. tonight and it's 87. Sigh.

[Dennis]

Las Vegas was really hot when I was there in July one year. The inside of the cars get so hot that you have to turn the a/c on and cool down the car before you can get in. There were a couple of days it was 120 or so. Yeah, I know it is a dry heat. But it was HOT. Sort of like being in a sauna. So it is matter of what you prefer - sauna or steam bath.

[boxmel]

I don't do humidity. I can handle 110+ as long as it's dry.

[Dennis]

Then you better stay out west Mel. Down south it gets really humid. It also is humid in Michigan when we have our rare heat waves.