Olympic Trial 2007 Picks to win it all

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 11 Aug 2007, 16:21

#1fan wrote:What makes Hunter the favorite? I believe Wilson has paid his dues, he is focused and ready for this win. I am curious to know what makes
Hunter the fav over Wilson? Wilson has been around for a long time vs Hunter who is young and up coming. We will all have to wait and see. My pick however is Wilson.

The reason some are picking Hunter is due to his win over Wilson at the US Championships. It was a very close bout and the score, 25-24, was a fair score. I would love to see the rematch if there is one. Nate James will definitely be in the mix too. It is a pick-em among the two Mikes and Nate.

AAboxing · Post by **AAboxing** » 11 Aug 2007, 17:23

This is the Final week to do the picks. It wont be the same to pick and give opinion after the 25th. Let here em.

Dont be shy and let here the why.

Light welterweight/141 lbs
1. Javier Molina, Commerce, Calif.
2. Brad Solomon, Douglasville, Ga.
3. Dan O’Connor, Framingham, Mass.
4. Danny Garcia, Philadelphia, Pa.
5. Andre Sherard, Milwaukee, Wis.
6. Michael Dallas, Bakersfield, Calif.
7. Samuel Martinez, Jacksonville, N.C.
8. Jeremy Bryan, Clifton, N.J.

Yes I feel Molina will take this. So. Cal. once again putting out some great fighters.

#1fan · Post by **#1fan** » 11 Aug 2007, 17:53

Dennis wrote:
#1fan wrote:What makes Hunter the favorite? I believe Wilson has paid his dues, he is focused and ready for this win. I am curious to know what makes
Hunter the fav over Wilson? Wilson has been around for a long time vs Hunter who is young and up coming. We will all have to wait and see. My pick however is Wilson.
The reason some are picking Hunter is due to his win over Wilson at the US Championships. It was a very close bout and the score, 25-24, was a fair score. I would love to see the rematch if there is one. Nate James will definitely be in the mix too. It is a pick-em among the two Mikes and Nate.

Well then if you were at the Championships you know the fights Wilson had prior to his championship bouts vs what Hunter had to fight. Seems that Hunter had the easier side of the draw. So... it would seem that having to NOT fight Wilson's draw was a benefit to Hunter. Their bout was close leaving Wilson all the more determined. Having waited for the 2008's also shows Wilson's determination. James is still out there as well. If I had to pick a second after Wilson, I would pick Nate. We will have to wait and watch.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 11 Aug 2007, 22:20

#1fan - you are correct about the draw playing a major role in the US Championships. There are very good boxers who didn't make the trials and some that aren't as good that did make it. I also have been very outspoken that I don't agree with giving byes into the quarter-finals as that was a huge advantage. I did not like the way the selection process was done and I sincerely hope we go back to the way it used to be with some slight modifications.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 12 Aug 2007, 02:08

I did not like the way the selection process was done and I sincerely hope we go back to the way it used to be with some slight modifications.

OMG! Dennis, I'm agreeing with you again! Will wonders never cease.

However............what slight modifications would you make (remember you have to have qualifying tournaments feeding into the Trials)?

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 12 Aug 2007, 13:27

Now that Dennis and Mel are starting to agree on everything, It's seems they have formed an allience. I guesss it will be up to the rest us to create some dabate. But make no mistake about it, from now on we will be dealing with a 2 against one situation.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 12 Aug 2007, 13:47

boxmel wrote:
I did not like the way the selection process was done and I sincerely hope we go back to the way it used to be with some slight modifications.
OMG! Dennis, I'm agreeing with you again! Will wonders never cease. However............what slight modifications would you make (remember you have to have qualifying tournaments feeding into the Trials)?

I've already discussed them - get rid of auto berth for Armed Services Champ, keep the MW Trials and possibly a few other tweaks.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 12 Aug 2007, 14:04

squarering wrote:Now that Dennis and Mel are starting to agree on everything, It's seems they have formed an allience. I guesss it will be up to the rest us to create some dabate. But make no mistake about it, from now on we will be dealing with a 2 against one situation.

Hal I think you forgot to read the other thread where Mel and I definitely disagree. I love to debate boxing topics and sometimes I will even play devil's advocate just for the fun of it.

BTW, what are you doing on here. Don't you have a boxer to get ready for the upcoming trials? I thought you wouldn't let him leave your side even to go to the bathroom for last couple weeks of training. LOL. Maybe he is at your side while you are typing.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 12 Aug 2007, 18:39

I've already discussed them - get rid of auto berth for Armed Services Champ, keep the MW Trials and possibly a few other tweaks

Since the Armed Forces are, for all practical purposes, a group member, you probably won't be able to get rid of them. What would your "few other tweaks" consist of?

Hal, Dennis and I have not joined up to present a united front on all issues. Feel free to throw combinations whenever you want. But make sure you keep your gloves up.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 12 Aug 2007, 19:32

boxmel wrote:
I've already discussed them - get rid of auto berth for Armed Services Champ, keep the MW Trials and possibly a few other tweaks
Since the Armed Forces are, for all practical purposes, a group member, you probably won't be able to get rid of them. What would your "few other tweaks" consist of?

Hal, Dennis and I have not joined up to present a united front on all issues. Feel free to throw combinations whenever you want. But make sure you keep your gloves up.

I thought it was traditional for the Armed Forces champion to get an Olympic Trials berth anyway?

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 12 Aug 2007, 19:45

Yes, as a group member, the Armed Forces champions are auto to the Trials (in the old format)......I think that's what I said...... ?

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 13 Aug 2007, 00:45

Dennis, All I can say is that my boxer is always with in the range of my coaches whistle. Mel, knew you two would only last as long as the next topic. As far as the military spot, there was a time that they dominated. I understand how the Cubans can get an edge by recruiting at an early age and have thier athletes live the life. But the miliatry should be able to compete with that in much the same way, so long as they can get recuites with a solid boxing foundation. I would think that if your job was to box and you had full time coaches with no worry of funding you could do great things. I am not sure why the military has not been able to do what they did so well in the past. Any insite would be interesting.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Aug 2007, 09:13

Hal, I've put on my gloves for the next round with Dennis -

The Army and the Marines are the only two services with full-time programs. The Army athletes have dominated for years. The Marines have had their champions, but nowhere near the Army's record. The Air Force and the Navy do not have full-time programs - they get together to train 3 months ahead of any major competition, if that.

The Army has ten of their boxers in the Trials this year so I would say they are still dominent.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 13 Aug 2007, 17:15

Even WCAP athletes can get deployed so some boxers might not want to enlist and join the program for that reason. If the military really wanted to get top boxers they could market the program better. I don't think I have ever seen any WCAP coaches out there recruiting at national tournaments. They tend to take what they get.

Hal - you are correct, the military branches should be able to have several boxers in the Olympics, but I think they will get one at the most. I have heard the same thing about the NMU program. This year the program has 5 boxers in the Olympic Trials Box-offs.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 13 Aug 2007, 17:30

Mel and I will continue to go toe-to-toe on occasion. We may also agree every now and then. Discourse is what is needed and useful to the sport. Different opinions are not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just that I'm right and Mel isn't. j/k Mel. I don't mind being wrong from time to time. What was Thomas Edison's saying about perfecting the incandescent light bulb?

It took Edison 2,000 failures to come up with the right filament. He also was pleased with 50,000 failures in developing a better battery and his answer to a question about his failures was "At least we know 50,000 things that won't work". I try not to fail that much and don't believe I do, but my kids may disagree.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Aug 2007, 18:10

I don't think I have ever seen any WCAP coaches out there recruiting at national tournaments. They tend to take what they get.

Nowwwww, Dennis....no, they don't have a table set up at tournaments and it doesn't appear that they have to. "Everyone" knows that if they are going in the Army, they (1) Let Coach Abdullah or one of his assistants know and (2) tell their recruiter. Of course, the boxers do have to try out for the WCAP team after boot camp and AIT in order to get to Fort Carson. I think the word is out there to where they don't have to actively recruit. And, yes, in case of national emergency or a war, they might get deployed and it has happened. I don't think this has made that big an impact on whether or not a boxer goes in the Army.

Just my opinion, of course.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Aug 2007, 19:43

Different opinions are not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just that I'm right and Mel isn't. j/k Mel.

Sheesh - now you sound like my husband!!!!

I don't mind being wrong from time to time.

I don't really think there is a "right" or a "wrong" - just differences of opinions. Sometimes I, or anyone else, might have more information than you and vice versa. I think we all learn through communicating - geez - what a novel idea - communicating! 8)

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 13 Aug 2007, 20:40

Geeeez, You two are getting along so well now I think I'm going to throw up.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:06

boxmel wrote:Yes, as a group member, the Armed Forces champions are auto to the Trials (in the old format)......I think that's what I said...... ?

That's what I thought; that's why I was asking; I wasn't sure if they did it differently in the old system; this is my first time really paying attention when the Olympic Trials have been happening.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:14

Hal - just think - YOU get to spend a week in Houston with me!

Kolya - the previous way of determing who goes to the Trials is as follows:

Year before - winner of National PAL, the Golden Gloves and the U.S. Challenge (no longer ; U.S. Championships in January of the Olympic year (gold & silver medalist); Armed Forces champion; winner of Eastern & Western Trials (in February or March). Hopefully, we'll go back to this schedule - and maybe the Mid-Western Trials will stay in as the #8 slot.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:32

I see. Thanks for the info, always good to know what's going on and what to expect.

So say that in another 2 years or so; if I've competed on the National level and done all that jazz and I decided to join the Army, I would talk to Basheer Abdullah and whoever my recruiter may be about going to the WCAP? I was wondering about that; because I've considered re-enlisting maybe, if my appeal goes through.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:48

What do you mean "considerd re-enlisting" and "my appeal?"

Yes, you would talk to Basheer and let him know you're interested and make a definite point with your recruiter - don't let him drop the ball. Again, you would have to box-off to make the WCAP team.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:53

boxmel wrote:What do you mean "considerd re-enlisting" and "my appeal?"

Yes, you would talk to Basheer and let him know you're interested and make a definite point with your recruiter - don't let him drop the ball. Again, you would have to box-off to make the WCAP team.

By that, I mean that I have a DD-214; and my appeal means my appeal to the Department of the Air Force to have my re-enlistment code changed to one that allows me to re-enter the service. I was in the Air Force for a short time and was discharged for having asthma; which I blatantly don't have. So when I go back to MD I'm getting my paperwork together and the results of my Pulmonary Function Tests and all that together; along with letters from my coach (who's retired Army colonel) and other that say they know I don't have it either.

Yeah, I know by now with recruiters you have to get EVERYTHING in writing and be smart; cause even though in my experience most recruiters are good guys just trying to do a job; they are trying to seel something and fill quotas.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 14 Aug 2007, 09:09

Ahhhh - so you'd "re-inlist" with the Army? And how can the AF discharge you with a medical problem you don't have? Interesting. I would never be a recruiter. The stress is unbearable.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 14 Aug 2007, 14:59

Kolya wrote:
boxmel wrote:What do you mean "considerd re-enlisting" and "my appeal?"

Yes, you would talk to Basheer and let him know you're interested and make a definite point with your recruiter - don't let him drop the ball. Again, you would have to box-off to make the WCAP team.
By that, I mean that I have a DD-214; and my appeal means my appeal to the Department of the Air Force to have my re-enlistment code changed to one that allows me to re-enter the service. I was in the Air Force for a short time and was discharged for having asthma; which I blatantly don't have. So when I go back to MD I'm getting my paperwork together and the results of my Pulmonary Function Tests and all that together; along with letters from my coach (who's retired Army colonel) and other that say they know I don't have it either.

Yeah, I know by now with recruiters you have to get EVERYTHING in writing and be smart; cause even though in my experience most recruiters are good guys just trying to do a job; they are trying to seel something and fill quotas.

Some recruiters do stretch the truth and tell little white lies to get kids to enlist, oops I mean young men and women to enlist. You are correct - get everything in writing. I'm not speaking from first hand knowledge, but talking to a lot of people who have enlisted and been promised things (not in writing) which of course didn't happen. I also have seen a few recruiters in action - with some it is like watching a used car salesman trying to sell an old Chevette and acting like it is better than a new Cobalt.

So does anyone know how the tryout for the WCAP works. It seems to me that they would just accept a boxer who has won a national title or a boxer who has had more than 100 bouts and has performed well at the national level.