Does JC "EQUAL or SURPASS" Ottke if he beats Kess

T.M.K · Post by **T.M.K** » 20 Aug 2007, 07:36

Please discuss.

best wishes

"T.M.K"

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Aug 2007, 07:50

Of course.

Joe will have 21 defences wining all 5 (If you Include the ring) belts.

Plus Joe has no gift decisions on his record.

The current scene Is spreading It's virus!

J · Post by J » 20 Aug 2007, 08:04

hardly mate theres plenty on here who dont think that JC shits sunshine and pisses gold.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Aug 2007, 08:28

He already has surpassed Otke. He beat a better champion than Otke to win his first belt. He beat all the belt holders Otke beat in more dominant fashion. In common opponents he beat them more impressively. He doesn't have any gift decisions. He has been at the top for longer. He beat the next best thing in Lacy.

J · Post by J » 20 Aug 2007, 08:34

debatble Larsson Mundine and Johnson could be up there as good as a shopworn end of career Eubank imo.

irrespective of the dubious nature of the Johnson and Larsson decisions fact is ottke got a W in the win column.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Aug 2007, 08:37

The addition of Kessler for me puts him past Ottke, provided he beats him of course.

At that age, Ottke was getting by largely due to home advantage, favourable refereering, whilst largely avoiding contact with his opponents. Ottke got Mundine when he was very inexperienced, little more than a novice really.

His fight with Larssen was a stinker, and I thought he was very fortunate to get the decision, because he was extremely negative throughout. Larssen was forcing the fight all the way through, and consistently landed the harder shots, whilst Ottke circled the ring and did the occasional bit of shoeshining.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 20 Aug 2007, 08:45

He got gift decisions (v Reid) same as Abraham (v Miranda).

Hopefully the latter's promise on fight news of fighting Taylor/Pavlik will come to fruition.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 21 Aug 2007, 02:51

Twisted Transistor wrote:Of course.

Joe will have 21 defences wining all 5 (If you Include the ring) belts.

Yes,against 20 bum

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 21 Aug 2007, 03:09

jangeorg wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:Of course.

Joe will have 21 defences wining all 5 (If you Include the ring) belts.

Yes,against 20 bum

Nah, I think you are mistaking your overprotected Danish fighters who all seem to go 68-0 (60 KOs) befoe stepping up.

My opinion is that Calazghe will smash Kessler to bits, it won't even be close.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Aug 2007, 04:46

Sven was definitely a master boxer. They really let him hang onto that title at the end though.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 21 Aug 2007, 04:54

Imo. Calzaghe is par with Ottke.

Both were long standing champs and have some ups to their names.

Ottke's downside is the gift decisions.
Calzaghe's downside is the careful management.

By meeting Kessler, Calzaghe surpasses Ottke imo. if A) he wins and gets the win or B) He loses and actually loses (then he will have proven he has balls which will lessen his current downside).

If he loses but actually gets the win on the cards, then he will add an Ottke downside to his resume and imo. be ranked lower then Ottke.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 21 Aug 2007, 05:24

Calzaghe is miles ahead of Ottke already.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 21 Aug 2007, 06:00

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:He already has surpassed Otke. He beat a better champion than Otke to win his first belt. He beat all the belt holders Otke beat in more dominant fashion. In common opponents he beat them more impressively. He doesn't have any gift decisions. He has been at the top for longer. He beat the next best thing in Lacy.

yep.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Aug 2007, 09:31

Careful management is a key point. Ottke beat guys in their primes - Brewer, Mitchell - that Calzaghe beat when slightly past their best.

Lacy would seem to put Calzaghe somewhere slightly ahead.

A loss to Kessler and Joe will, however, be judged harshly.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Aug 2007, 10:04

A loss to Kessler at this stage, especially if it should be a close one, is no great slur on Joe's rep, especially if Kessler should continue and dominate the scene for another couple of years. Joe is 35, and at that no matter how near his peak he may be, he is not at it per se.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Aug 2007, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote:A loss to Kessler at this stage, especially if it should be a close one, is no great slur on Joe's rep, especially if Kessler should continue and dominate the scene for another couple of years. Joe is 35, and at that no matter how near his peak he may be, he is not at it per se.

I don't know. I think Joe has really got away with things in the past and boxing fans aren't fools. If he puts up a bitter struggle and loses narrowly it'll be ok. But if he gets beaten up ppl will be nasty about it.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 21 Aug 2007, 16:43

jangeorg wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:Of course.

Joe will have 21 defences wining all 5 (If you Include the ring) belts.

Yes,against 20 bum

I'm gonna luuuuvv hearing about the reactions the Danes will have when Joe shows Kessler Isn't that much of a threat to him.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Aug 2007, 16:51

Kessler's a massive threat for Calzaghe. If Joe was 5 years younger in this day, I doubt he'd risk his title if I'm being honest with myself.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 21 Aug 2007, 17:26

Calzaghe can pressure Kessler using those fast flurries. Kessler seems to just cover up and get pushed up on the back foot when pressured.

Didn't someone say Mundine troubled Mikkel with his handspeed but he was timid. Joe's not timind to make this Into a fight and won't take backward steps.

Simply stepping In and out of range jabbing or straight combinations won't beat Joe.

Not convinced still, Kessler would beat the rest of the supermiddles I've seen though.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 21 Aug 2007, 17:34

J wrote:hardly mate theres plenty on here who dont think that JC shits sunshine and pisses gold.

Theres plenty on here who feel that way about Hatton.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 22 Aug 2007, 03:24

gheeme wrote:He got gift decisions (v Reid) same as Abraham (v Miranda)

I think the refereeing was terrible versus Reid but the decision was not strictly a "gift" as Reid faded down the stretch and Ottke nicked rounds. As for Miranda-Abraham however as we have previously discussed i don't see a gift anywhere. Abraham outboxed the crude Miranda even after he had broken his jaw.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Aug 2007, 06:39

So Joe can just shoeshine and win? I think ppl are making a gross error and I think Calzaghe believes he can just unload arm punches.

It's like he's said, oh, I threw 1000 at Lacy so I'll throw double that and Kessler won't be able to live with it.

It's a load of nonsense. Holyfield saw a huge test in Lewis and to take pressure offf his mind he fooled himself into thinking he could KO Lewis in 3 rounds! Look what happened when he realized he was deluded.

Calzaghe stayed hidden for nine years. Now ppl know what to expect from him.

This fight is going to be an epic struggle and Kessler is the bigger, younger, harder hitting, stronger man. Calzaghe will push him all the way, but he may get a nasty shock when he sees what happens when Kessler's back is to the wall. You've been warned!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Aug 2007, 11:15

http://www.teampalle.dk/composite-1448.htm

According to Danes on Esb, he says that he wont be wasting time watching JC fight against the turtle lacy in his tuneup for nov.3rd

He and Palle know that If they watch that tape of god like boxing, that Kessler will lay a log In his pants, knowing what he has signed to fight!

He's not watching Manfredo either, so which fight will he watch?

Isn't he supposed to find weaknesses In fights where Joe was at his best?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Aug 2007, 11:17

Autobarn wrote:So Joe can just shoeshine and win? I think ppl are making a gross error and I think Calzaghe believes he can just unload arm punches.

It's like he's said, oh, I threw 1000 at Lacy so I'll throw double that and Kessler won't be able to live with it.

It's a load of nonsense. Holyfield saw a huge test in Lewis and to take pressure offf his mind he fooled himself into thinking he could KO Lewis in 3 rounds! Look what happened when he realized he was deluded.

Calzaghe stayed hidden for nine years. Now ppl know what to expect from him.

This fight is going to be an epic struggle and Kessler is the bigger, younger, harder hitting, stronger man. Calzaghe will push him all the way, but he may get a nasty shock when he sees what happens when Kessler's back is to the wall. You've been warned!

How do you what Calzaghe thinks he can do? He never even underestimated Ashira so how will he underestimate Mikkel.

Kessler being a Light Middle earlier In his career as pro says maybe he Isn't bigger and stronger than Joe.

Calzaghe;s going Voodoo on Mikkel.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Aug 2007, 14:51

Twisted Transistor wrote:http://www.teampalle.dk/composite-1448.htm

According to Danes on Esb, he says that he wont be wasting time watching JC fight against the turtle lacy in his tuneup for nov.3rd

He and Palle know that If they watch that tape of god like boxing, that Kessler will lay a log In his pants, knowing what he has signed to fight!

He's not watching Manfredo either, so which fight will he watch?

Isn't he supposed to find weaknesses In fights where Joe was at his best?

stop mythologising Calzaghe. He's believed his clippings from that brilliant win over Lacy and he's looked horrible since.

Kessler should probably watch the Reid fight. Or the Woodhall fight. Or the Veit rematch where Joe had quite a few issues with timing and reach.

Everyone knows what he's going to do now. Flashy fast hands. But if you an edge out of range Joe will flail at air, and if you cannon right hands they will probably land because that's Joe's achilles heel.

I think Kessler is more fighting fit than Calzaghe as well. He's kept fighting world class opponents and this will help when things get tough, which they undoubtedly will.

Face it, it's better for boxing if Kessler edges this one.