Underrated wins

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 20 Aug 2007, 16:34

I've always felt Robinson doesn't get enough credit for his wins over Gavilan. They're under mentioned if nothing else. With his wins over LaMotta and Fulmer and Basilio and some others those Gavilan wins seem to get lost in the mix, but I think most fighters would hang their hat on and would probably go to the Hall of Fame with two wins over a prime Kid Gavilan.

There's probably a lot of examples of this kind of thing, but this one always sticks out at me. Feel free to name other examples.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 21 Aug 2007, 12:59

Here are a few:

Tunney Dec Dempsey (II)
Spinks Dec Qawi
Benitez Dec Duran
Turpin Dec Robinson
Young Corbett II Ko3 McGovern

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 21 Aug 2007, 13:24

Schmeling KO'ed Louis (I)
Walcott KO'ed Charles (III)
Patterson KO'ed Johansson (II)
Ali KO'ed Liston (II)
Ali KO'ed Foreman
Monzon KO'ed Benvenuti (I)
Corro beat Valdes (I)
Stracey TKO'ed Napoles
Harada beat Jofre (I)
Douglas KO'ed Tyson

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 21 Aug 2007, 14:17

Eddie Booker beating Archie Moore.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Aug 2007, 16:07

KOJOE90 wrote:Eddie Booker beating Archie Moore.

Let's not confuse "Wins" with "Flukes".

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Aug 2007, 16:09

Martin...it's hard for me to classify the Douglas win over Tyson as under rated. Like the Braddock Baer fight it gets plenty of top tier legendary and recurring press coverage.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 21 Aug 2007, 16:19

Simon Brown beating Terry Norris

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 21 Aug 2007, 18:19

Tommy Morrison's win over a prime Razor Ruddock often gets over-looked

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 22 Aug 2007, 13:04

The Merthyr Marvel Eddie Thomas beating Billy Graham.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 22 Aug 2007, 15:18

HomicideHenry wrote:Tommy Morrison's win over a prime Razor Ruddock often gets over-looked

A prime Razor Ruddock? Ruddock had one fight in the previous 3 years and was way past his best.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 22 Aug 2007, 15:44

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:Schmeling KO'ed Louis (I)
Walcott KO'ed Charles (III)
Patterson KO'ed Johansson (II)
Ali KO'ed Liston (II)
Ali KO'ed Foreman
Monzon KO'ed Benvenuti (I)
Corro beat Valdes (I)
Stracey TKO'ed Napoles
Harada beat Jofre (I)
Douglas KO'ed Tyson

Ali KO8 Foreman is underated??

How many times has ESPN shown that fight again?

markl · Post by **markl** » 23 Aug 2007, 11:51

dempseyfire wrote:
Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:Schmeling KO'ed Louis (I)
Walcott KO'ed Charles (III)
Patterson KO'ed Johansson (II)
Ali KO'ed Liston (II)
Ali KO'ed Foreman
Monzon KO'ed Benvenuti (I)
Corro beat Valdes (I)
Stracey TKO'ed Napoles
Harada beat Jofre (I)
Douglas KO'ed Tyson

Ali KO8 Foreman is underated??

How many times has ESPN shown that fight again?

LOL, that is the most overrated fight in history. Great accomplishment and extremely significant from a historical perspective. But the in ring action is dull and sloppy.

markl · Post by **markl** » 23 Aug 2007, 11:57

I think both of the Ali/Spinks fights are underrated.

No matter what happened later. To sustain that kind of workrate for spam after 7 fights was amazing.

The rematch is one of my favorite Ali fights. He turned the clock back 10years, if not more and danced all night.

Both of those fights have been reduced to Spinks sucks and Ali was shot. Not that I would totally disagree, but there was more to those fights then that.

Haglers domination of Hamsho doesn't get enough credit. Mustapha was bull strong and I have no doubt he would be the champion today.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 23 Aug 2007, 12:37

You found the Ali-Foreman fight the most overrated fight in history? Say what? Dull? There was more action in those 8 rounds than the 30 rounds of Ali-Spinks.
There hasn't been a heavyweight fight in the last 10 years that was as good or exciting as Ali-Foreman.

The Ali-Spinks fights? Yes, Spinks fought a very good fight for someone so inexperienced, but it wasn't a very good fight.
I'm a huge Ali fan, but even I wouldn't call the rematch a great fight. Ali looked a lot better in the 2nd fight, but it's an exaggerration to say that he "danced all night".

Yes, ESPN has broadcast the Ali-Foreman fight more than enough times. However it was a great fight. If it wasn't a very good fight than it would be overrated. It isn't underrated or overrated.

markl · Post by **markl** » 23 Aug 2007, 12:50

Ambling Alp wrote:You found the Ali-Foreman fight the most overrated fight in history? Say what? Dull? There was more action in those 8 rounds than the 30 rounds of Ali-Spinks.
There hasn't been a heavyweight fight in the last 10 years that was as good or exciting as Ali-Foreman.

The Ali-Spinks fights? Yes, Spinks fought a very good fight for someone so inexperienced, but it wasn't a very good fight.
I'm a huge Ali fan, but even I wouldn't call the rematch a great fight. Ali looked a lot better in the 2nd fight, but it's an exaggerration to say that he "danced all night".

Yes, ESPN has broadcast the Ali-Foreman fight more than enough times. However it was a great fight. If it wasn't a very good fight than it would be overrated. It isn't underrated or overrated.

I didn't say it was a great fight. I said it was a great performance. I believe that was what the thread was asking for.

I am not saying it was as boring as Ruiz/Rahman. It is overrated in the fact that it always gets mentioned among the best fights and ko's ever and it has no business in either category.

Ali/Spinks 1 was much more action packed then Ali/Foreman. I find Ike/Tua to be extremely overrated as well. Too each their own.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Aug 2007, 13:06

There's always a critic. People don't put Ali-Foreman into perspective. Watch any of Foreman's prior fights against Chuvalo or Frazier or Norton and then watch Ali-Foreman and you'll understand why its a great fight. Foreman looked "sloppy" all the way to an Olympic Gold medal, a 40-0 record against quality opposition, and the Heavyweight championship. I wonder if his punch had something to do with that..

And, even then, its hardly a boring fight. Lots of punches, lots of clean shots by Ali...

markl · Post by **markl** » 23 Aug 2007, 14:04

I am a fan of both men. I grew up watching them. It's probably just the way the fight has been rammed down my throat.

It's just a personal preference. The fight was sloppy on both accounts. I think the heat contributed more to it then anything else.

Not shitting on the signifigance of the fight. Just don't find it entertaining.

I know I am in the minority. People rave about Ike/Tua and that has permanent dust in my collection

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Aug 2007, 14:16

That's sort of the point I'm making. Foreman was always sloppy. He wasn't a dangerous fighter because of form or technique, he was a dangerous fighter because he was probably the biggest punching Heavyweight champion of all time, and that's why it was a great performance by Ali. If George had been fighting almost anyone else the fight would have been over in a few rounds. Ali was hardly sloppy, he did a lot of good things in the fight.

If ESPN Classic started playing Leonard-Hearns every other week I wouldn't start calling that fight overrated. I would watch something else.

markl · Post by **markl** » 23 Aug 2007, 14:58

I Feel Fine wrote:That's sort of the point I'm making. Foreman was always sloppy. He wasn't a dangerous fighter because of form or technique, he was a dangerous fighter because he was probably the biggest punching Heavyweight champion of all time, and that's why it was a great performance by Ali. If George had been fighting almost anyone else the fight would have been over in a few rounds. Ali was hardly sloppy, he did a lot of good things in the fight.

If ESPN Classic started playing Leonard-Hearns every other week I wouldn't start calling that fight overrated. I would watch something else.

I watch Leonard/Hearns once a month on my own. Just turn it off after the 12th. I was talking more about the public perception then ESPN Classic. It's rare they show a fight that I would want to watch and don't own.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Aug 2007, 15:09

Honeyghan-Curry
Spinks-Holmes
Holyfield-Tyson
Duran-Marcel
Hagler-Minter
Monzon-Valdez I and II
Monzon-Benvenuti I and II

torodecayey · Post by **torodecayey** » 23 Aug 2007, 19:20

Calzaghe over Jeff Lacy

torodecayey · Post by **torodecayey** » 23 Aug 2007, 21:09

Antonio Gomez over Esteban Dejesus
Antonio Gomez over Antonio Cervantes
Antonio Gomez over Dwight Hawkins

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 23 Aug 2007, 22:06

Duran over Barkley

Hearns over Virgil Hill

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Aug 2007, 23:01

Duran over Barkley

I think this win a tad overrated actually. Probably due to Duran's popularity and the emotional aspect of him winning another title.

In fact almost every big win a fighter had over Duran is underrated.
whether its the Hearns fight, the second Leonard fight, and especially the Benitez's fight, People would argue that Duran must have been either out of shape, past his prime, sick, or somehow unmotivated for the fight or else things would have been different.

People look at Duran with such rose colored glasses that he is constantly given credit for his loss to Hagler as though it were a win!

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 24 Aug 2007, 00:09

theone wrote:
Duran over Barkley
I think this win a tad overrated actually. Probably due to Duran's popularity and the emotional aspect of him winning another title.

In fact almost every big win a fighter had over Duran is underrated.
whether its the Hearns fight, the second Leonard fight, and especially the Benitez's fight, People would argue that Duran must have been either out of shape, past his prime, sick, or somehow unmotivated for the fight or else things would have been different.

People look at Duran with such rose colored glasses that he is constantly given credit for his loss to Hagler as though it were a win!

Yeah I get what you mean when he "lost he wasn't motivated" etc etc..but for a fighter in his late 30's and fighting above his natural weight against a fighter that was tough and had a punch to match he just looked real good in this fight..I'd say the Benitez win over Duran is also underrated..