stujones wrote:The man with arguably a better name than Cengiz Koc! (especially when you hear Holdsworth pronouncing his name in one of his earlier fights!). I think old Fragomeni will KO Hide. He is durable, can't punch (but then he doesn't have to).
Sorry to disappoint you, but Koc in this case is pronounced "Kotch"
Yes, I know... but I'm sure we have all said in the pub - "Oh that Michael Sprott is fighting a guy called Cock"... Don't ruin it.
I have an early Fragomeni fight that was on Eurosport.... And Holdsworth called him "Fuckamany"... I still call him that.
I think Hide will totally outgun him and annihilate him inside 6. Fragomeni, if he gets past 6, will be knackered. Herbie has come down from heavyweight whereas Fraggo is a light hitting cruiser.
If Hide could win a WBO heavy title - which was considered fiflth at the time, I know - he could have held a major cruiser title in the 1990s.
Autobarn wrote:I think Hide will totally outgun him and annihilate him inside 6. Fragomeni, if he gets past 6, will be knackered. Herbie has come down from heavyweight whereas Fraggo is a light hitting cruiser.
If Hide could win a WBO heavy title - which was considered fiflth at the time, I know - he could have held a major cruiser title in the 1990s.
Look at the quality Hide beat though in his two WBO reigns. He didn't even beat a half decent Brit too become British champion.
As the responses suggests, this is an interesting match-up, but mandatories that the EBU come up with for the EU are rarely made. Although in this case, the promotors and fighters themselves are reasonably small enough names to go through with it.
Btw, Kenzig is coming out of retirement. Hurrah! You can't keep a Koc down.
Autobarn wrote:I think Hide will totally outgun him and annihilate him inside 6. Fragomeni, if he gets past 6, will be knackered. Herbie has come down from heavyweight whereas Fraggo is a light hitting cruiser.
If Hide could win a WBO heavy title - which was considered fiflth at the time, I know - he could have held a major cruiser title in the 1990s.
Look at the quality Hide beat though in his two WBO reigns. He didn't even beat a half decent Brit too become British champion.
Most protected British fighter in history.
Yet if he could sting Bowe (before going down about 90 times) he could have blown out Al Cole or Nate Miller a division down. I think without all that weight going against him his chin is less of a factor.
He did beat Bentt to get the WBO version and also got Tony Tucker, who was a decent operator although past his best at the time.
The lack of discipline and overall craziness would always have held him back, even if he'd fought a whole career at cruiser, yet I believe he can do something even in this pretty tough cruiser class.
jomothepure wrote:As the responses suggests, this is an interesting match-up, but mandatories that the EBU come up with for the EU are rarely made. Although in this case, the promotors and fighters themselves are reasonably small enough names to go through with it.
Btw, Kenzig is coming out of retirement. Hurrah! You can't keep a Koc down.
Imagine if Kenzig and Giacobbe fought each other.
It could be a case of "who would win out of "Fuckamany Koc".
Autobarn wrote:I think Hide will totally outgun him and annihilate him inside 6. Fragomeni, if he gets past 6, will be knackered. Herbie has come down from heavyweight whereas Fraggo is a light hitting cruiser.
If Hide could win a WBO heavy title - which was considered fiflth at the time, I know - he could have held a major cruiser title in the 1990s.
Look at the quality Hide beat though in his two WBO reigns. He didn't even beat a half decent Brit too become British champion.
Most protected British fighter in history.
Yet if he could sting Bowe (before going down about 90 times) he could have blown out Al Cole or Nate Miller a division down. I think without all that weight going against him his chin is less of a factor.
He did beat Bentt to get the WBO version and also got Tony Tucker, who was a decent operator although past his best at the time.
The lack of discipline and overall craziness would always have held him back, even if he'd fought a whole career at cruiser, yet I believe he can do something even in this pretty tough cruiser class.
Bent and Tony Tucker exactly, hardly Tyson and Lewis were they. Tony Tucker looked as if he was on something throughout the week... Michael Bent had been fasting aswell as been a very lucky champion.
Would Hide have been able to catch Miller or Norris... Well Nate Miller was pretty shit, but Norris was well schooled. Hides' big advatange at Heavy was his speed, it wouldn't be as prominant at Cruiser.
Whilst I have no evidence to support this, I don't think Hide would have been able to withstand the punches of Norris... Remember it was full blown shots that Bowe, Klitchsko etc nailed Hide with... mere Arm punches.
I really think it was the weight of the punches by Bowe that did Hide in. Rather than the delivery or the leverage.
Orlin Norris was a very good, well schooled pressure fighter. A really clean puncher. I love his fight with (I think) Adlpho Washington. For my money Orlin was better than JM Mormeck, though Norris' prime was very short.
Cruisers with good punch delivery would trouble Hide but I think he'd have a pretty good size advantage over a lot. Coupled with his fast hands and feet, and I think he would have been a monster at 190-pounds during the '90s.
Autobarn wrote:I really think it was the weight of the punches by Bowe that did Hide in. Rather than the delivery or the leverage.
Orlin Norris was a very good, well schooled pressure fighter. A really clean puncher. I love his fight with (I think) Adlpho Washington. For my money Orlin was better than JM Mormeck, though Norris' prime was very short.
Cruisers with good punch delivery would trouble Hide but I think he'd have a pretty good size advantage over a lot. Coupled with his fast hands and feet, and I think he would have been a monster at 190-pounds during the '90s.
Hide never recovered from a clash of heads vs Bowe IMO.
It seemed that Bowe's size and strength did away with Herbie, helped a bit by Herbie going all out, not being relaxed, burning his own energy up etc. It's was an awful strategy albeit a wildly exciting one.
I even think a missed punch dropped Hide at one point, just a graze with the forearm. IMO that fight proved that Hide was no heavyweight yet he carried on with the weights and the protein shakes unfortunately.
Perhaps the layoffs have actually saved something good for last. Can't believe he's only 35. Seems he's been around forever.
Old bones Ian wrote:Fragomeni is a tough come foward boxer, likes to get close to his opponent and throw hooks. He took some big shots off of Haye early on without folding, even when he was shook up, he managed to smother Haye's follow ups. In the ninth he suddenly fell apart from a good shot, and Hayes follow up finished him. He wasn't knocked out, just couldn't take anymore.
Its going to be an interesting fight with Hide, if Fragomeni shows the same chin as he did against Haye, then he might be able to take Hide to the later rounds and things may start going Fragi's way.
Hide has the power to take any cruiser in the world out with 1 shot , but his chin is also his weak point.
One thing Fragomeni is rated 6th in by the WBC, much to high, but it will look good for Hide if he wins.
stujones wrote:
Look at the quality Hide beat though in his two WBO reigns. He didn't even beat a half decent Brit too become British champion.
Most protected British fighter in history.
Yet if he could sting Bowe (before going down about 90 times) he could have blown out Al Cole or Nate Miller a division down. I think without all that weight going against him his chin is less of a factor.
He did beat Bentt to get the WBO version and also got Tony Tucker, who was a decent operator although past his best at the time.
The lack of discipline and overall craziness would always have held him back, even if he'd fought a whole career at cruiser, yet I believe he can do something even in this pretty tough cruiser class.
Bent and Tony Tucker exactly, hardly Tyson and Lewis were they. Tony Tucker looked as if he was on something throughout the week... Michael Bent had been fasting aswell as been a very lucky champion.
Would Hide have been able to catch Miller or Norris... Well Nate Miller was pretty shit, but Norris was well schooled. Hides' big advatange at Heavy was his speed, it wouldn't be as prominant at Cruiser.
Whilst I have no evidence to support this, I don't think Hide would have been able to withstand the punches of Norris... Remember it was full blown shots that Bowe, Klitchsko etc nailed Hide with... mere Arm punches.
Tucker was a crack raddled wreck by the time Herbie got him, hell, he was washed up when Lewis fought him in 1993.
I think there's something strange about Herbie's neurological system, because he seems to go into shock after even a cuffing arm shot, let alone a full blown whack.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Tucker was a crack raddled wreck by the time Herbie got him, hell, he was washed up when Lewis fought him in 1993.
Still, while Herbie was favoured to win, nobody expected it to be so quick and easy. As a comparative result, it's fantastic - consider it took Ruiz 11 rounds to see off an even older Tucker.
Had to chuckle at Hide's recent win over Polacovic. Polac was so negative. He turned his back when Hide opened up, so Herbie just belted him on the back of his head & stopped him.
