Mike Tyson-Lennox Lewis [PEAK]

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 22 Aug 2007, 01:03

The Tyson who fought Berbick and Holmes, in my mind were the best that Tyson ever was....the best performance I ever seen out of Lennox Lewis was his brutal 2nd round KO of Razor Ruddock, for me that was when he had the right balance of speed, killer attitude [rare for Lewis], power and movement; was certainly a better performance than his fight with Bruno.

I hate to say it, Lewis would probably win, if it was the Lewis who fought Ruddock....but then again, if the faded Tyson could win the 1st round against Lewis when they really did fight...the prime Tyson could do a clone job of what Lewis done to Ruddock.

The only problem I have with Lewis is that, he wasnt ever truly tested in a tough fight, until he fought Mercer, he showed grit and determination then; I dont know if the Lewis who fought Ruddock had that same measure of courage....would he be confident, until he realized he couldnt keep Tyson off him as easily as the Ruddock's, Bruno's, Mason's?

Tyson, on other hand, had faced adversity and tough moments, he was tested, a bit more than Lewis, in terms of courage and mental, emotional issues, the fear inside; unfortunately Tyson forgot all his training later in the later years, believing his own press and invincibility, turning into a head hunter.

If Lewis had fought the Tyson who fought Douglas, or even the Tyson who fought Bruno and Carl The Truth Williams, he would have beaten Tyson 8 or 9 out of 10, he just didnt have it together anymore.

I pick Lewis to win by TKO somewhere around the 10th round, some how something tells me, that even then, Lewis had something to prove.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 22 Aug 2007, 02:51

You really think Lewis's best performance was against Ruddock? I always had his fight against Morrison #1. He was aggressive, accurate, and determined not to give Morrison any type of momentum.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Aug 2007, 08:11

RazorKO wrote:
dr_devious wrote:
RazorKO wrote:Tyson KO 3. Lewis has no chance in this fight, if slow as molasis Ray Mercer could not only outjab/outbrawl Lewis but also BACK him up - What the hell would a prime motivated Tyson would do to him?

The only way Lewis refrains himself from being knocked out is pulling a Bonecrusher in a desperate attempt to last the distance. A lot like he did to a shot Tyson back in 2002 where he clinched every second and threw less punches than there was rounds.
Is that why Tyson was mashed to pieces and knocked out at the end of the fight Razoe? Lewis was very careful in the first couple of rounds but after that subjected Tyson to a horrendous battering.
Tyson was hurt more from the clinches than the punches. All that holding on tactics commited by Lewis tired an old past it Tyson out, and it still took him 8 rounds to finally put him on his back. There is no way Lewis can get away with that much clinching against the 86 version of Tyson unless Lewis fights purely to survive i.e Bonecrusher or Mitch Green.

So Lewis clinched Tyson's head so hard that he split his face open and badly KOed him Razor

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 22 Aug 2007, 11:00

Terry, got to disagree with you about Tyson getting knocked out with a single Lewis shot...............he took a savage beating after the first couple of rounds and it was the cumulation of punches rather than a single punch that finished him. Tyson proved hes got a great chin

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 22 Aug 2007, 13:40

Terry D wrote:Tyson is wide-open to clinches.

I agree, at all stages of his rollercoaster career Tyson was always open to the clinch. He even seemed to welcome it at times.

Tyson was at his best at mid range.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 22 Aug 2007, 15:11

Yeah I believe the Razor Ruddock KO was Lewis' best performance over any top rated contender. He dominated Ruddock, and blasted him with one of the best HW kayos I personally ever seen...now the Morrison fight, I do agree is one of Lewis's best performances as well, but had he not cut Morrison in the first 35 seconds, who knows really how well Lewis would have 'dominating' had Morrison been 100%.

Lewis was a smart fighter, he saw what Morrison did against Ruddock, so he knew he had to use his jab more often, he couldn't risk Morrison getting in close, because it was apparent that Morrison's left hook at that time was greater than Ruddock's right.

It's kinda like how Joe Louis, even after beating Max Baer, had said he would have rather fought the Braddock's, Schmeling's, etc over Baer because Baer had power in both hands....Ruddock was highly regarded in Lewis's mind, and when Morrison came back to stop him in the 5th, Lewis knew he had a chance of losing if he had to fight Morrison, so he had to step up the jabbing and keep the smaller man off balance.

It's hard to really say what was the 'best fight' really for any fighter, when going back to Joe Louis RING magazine rates his KO over Schmeling as being a 'chilling example of what a man can do to another man, save all weapons but his fists' but then again it was only a round, was no real fight to it. But if we follow the logic that the fastest destruction of a fighter, who is highly ranked and regarded, is that 'perfect fight'....then Lewis's KO over Ruddock has to be it.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Aug 2007, 13:36

Max Schmeling isn't Razor Ruddock. KOing Schmeling in one round is a great acheivment, KOing Ruddock in two rounds isn't too hard to imagine. I would say Lewis' best performance was against Holyfield, because it was a dominating performance and because of who the opponent was. And even in terms of performance I would put the Rahman rematch ahead of the Ruddock fight, Lewis shows good boxing along with a brutal KO.

But the whole Ruddock thing is an example of how overrated Tyson is. People always talk about Tyson- "the animal"- when if you look at all of Lewis and Tyson's common opponents, Lewis usually dominated them more or stopped them earlier than Tyson did... with the sole exception of Bruno. Lewis was a far more dangerous fighter than Tyson.

Tyson met some tall rangy opponents, but none were as good as Lewis. Lewis' chin is hardly as bad as some make it out to be, he was not Wladimir Klitschko, and if he was fighting Tyson he'd be careful and would not get caught by something stupid. If they fought 10 times in their primes I would pick Lewis to win 8 fights.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Aug 2007, 16:57

Oh I agree with you Feel, Ruddock was no Schmeling, that was never my intention, was just making a comparison to how the Ruddock fight in my opinion was Lewis's greatest win, as was Louis's greatest win was over Schmeling.

Ruddock was legit, but nowhere near great. The sad thing with him was, he realized he could punch, and he slowly but surely shaked off the skills he once posessed and became a head hunter...but damn he could punch, his KO of former WBA champion Michael Dokes is quite frankly one of the more frightening spectacles I have ever witnessed.

And I agree, as I said before, had they fought 10 times Lewis would win like 8 of the 10. But Lewis seemed to have problems with smaller men, while Tyson had problems with bigger men...Lewis couldnt stop Holyfield and they went 24 rounds with eachother, Tyson on the other hand went the distance with Bonecrusher Smith and was stopped by Buster Douglas.

The game plan with Tyson is, if someone could set the pace before he could, you was going to beat him. If you got off first, you was going to win. If you could keep at him, and keep him off balance, you was going to beat him.

Tyson's greatest win in my mind was his three round destruction of Trevor Berbick and then his KO over Holmes....Lewis's greatest fights were Ruddock, Holyfield...you can't compare apples to oranges.

Like I said before, if it was anyone else who defeated the Tubbs', Berbick's, Smith's, etc nobody would have cared...it was just the way Tyson fought and how he won that made him "great", but his opponents even at a championship level were average at best.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Aug 2007, 18:55

Yeah, I agree.

Its interesting, I only first saw the Ruddock-Dokes KO around a month ago on youtube. And yes, it was a brutal KO... though that wasn't a first for Dokes.

gregor · Post by **gregor** » 24 Aug 2007, 03:19

Lewis would be very cautious against Tyson. Even completely shot Tyson won the first round of the fight. Peak Tyson had better stamina, speed, footwork, etc. and would be able to continue this kind of attack much longer. There is a good chance Lewis would get KO'd in the meantime... and even if not, Tyson would be well ahead on scorecards. Lewis still could outpoint him, but I wouldn' bet on it. And I don't think Lewis had big chance of KO'ing Tyson since even the "punch bag" version of Tyson survived most of the fight.

J · Post by J » 24 Aug 2007, 07:01

Lewis late stoppage / wide UD.

tyson never did any good against guys that werent intimdated, like most bullies when stood up to he turned into a pussycat.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 24 Aug 2007, 07:26

I Feel Fine wrote:Max Schmeling isn't Razor Ruddock. KOing Schmeling in one round is a great acheivment, KOing Ruddock in two rounds isn't too hard to imagine. I would say Lewis' best performance was against Holyfield, because it was a dominating performance and because of who the opponent was. And even in terms of performance I would put the Rahman rematch ahead of the Ruddock fight, Lewis shows good boxing along with a brutal KO.

But the whole Ruddock thing is an example of how overrated Tyson is. People always talk about Tyson- "the animal"- when if you look at all of Lewis and Tyson's common opponents, Lewis usually dominated them more or stopped them earlier than Tyson did... with the sole exception of Bruno. Lewis was a far more dangerous fighter than Tyson.

Tyson met some tall rangy opponents, but none were as good as Lewis. Lewis' chin is hardly as bad as some make it out to be, he was not Wladimir Klitschko, and if he was fighting Tyson he'd be careful and would not get caught by something stupid. If they fought 10 times in their primes I would pick Lewis to win 8 fights.

I pretty much agree with this. Tyson could win. Lewis did get untidy at times and could be KO'd. if they fought 10 times Lewis would get KO'd but he'd win more than he lost.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 24 Aug 2007, 08:32

dr_devious wrote:
RazorKO wrote:
dr_devious wrote: Is that why Tyson was mashed to pieces and knocked out at the end of the fight Razoe? Lewis was very careful in the first couple of rounds but after that subjected Tyson to a horrendous battering.
Tyson was hurt more from the clinches than the punches. All that holding on tactics commited by Lewis tired an old past it Tyson out, and it still took him 8 rounds to finally put him on his back. There is no way Lewis can get away with that much clinching against the 86 version of Tyson unless Lewis fights purely to survive i.e Bonecrusher or Mitch Green.
So Lewis clinched Tyson's head so hard that he split his face open and badly KOed him Razor

The clinching and the horrific hugging Lewis was pulling on Tyson tired the old man out, But yet Tyson was still able to take Lewis' best shots before finally having to fall in the 8th. Tyson was hurt not only from the punches but from the constant hugging as well.

RazorKO · Post by **RazorKO** » 24 Aug 2007, 08:46

Lewis would not get away with clinching on Tyson. You are right, look at how well Tyson stopped Smith and Tucker clinching

.

The reason that Smith got away with all his clinching is because he fought purely to survive, Tucker on the other hand simply ran as did Tillis. Lewis would only get away with his JabnGrab technique unless he fought to survive.

Shorter guys with a well timed jab can land it on bigger guys and this forces the bigger guy to concede ground and the shorter guy can make ground and land shots. Lewis gritted his teeth and turned a potential loss into a win. Tyson never did this.

Lewis was outjabbed and beat to the punch each time, he showed no grit or heart what so ever in that fight. If you want to say he did, than Tyson showed heart for summining up the strength to knock out Botha while he was outjabbed and trailing on all cards.

Tyson already proved his heart by going 19 brutal rounds with Ruddock without being knocked out let alone knocked down, the savage beating he took from Douglas and the shots (as well as illegal) shots he took from Holyfield.

As for Tyson not going down under a single shot, Lewis' right hand was a single shot and he went over and out. If you are saying McCall and Rahman only hit Lewis once in their wins you are going into strange uncharted territories of error.

Old Tyson took Lewis' best shots and it still took him 8 rounds to finally finish him off. Tyson has never been counted out by a single blow and that is a proven fact whether you like it or not.

Lewis on the other hand has not only been sparked out once...but TWICE! Tyson could take what he can inflict on others, Lewis however has not proven it.

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 24 Aug 2007, 09:25

The fight with Mercer showed Lewises weaknesses against all out pressure fighter with a jab. Tyson was smaller but faster and hit harder and was the better puncher. At the same time you could see that Lewis had very good style to beat Tyson. But .. im going with Tyson.. for me the young campion who sparked Michael Spinks could have beaten any HW in the history of boxing on there best night. But that's just me.. so don't rip on this.

J · Post by J » 24 Aug 2007, 10:24

RazorKO wrote:
Lewis would not get away with clinching on Tyson. You are right, look at how well Tyson stopped Smith and Tucker clinching
.

The reason that Smith got away with all his clinching is because he fought purely to survive, Tucker on the other hand simply ran as did Tillis. Lewis would only get away with his JabnGrab technique unless he fought to survive.

Shorter guys with a well timed jab can land it on bigger guys and this forces the bigger guy to concede ground and the shorter guy can make ground and land shots. Lewis gritted his teeth and turned a potential loss into a win. Tyson never did this.
Lewis was outjabbed and beat to the punch each time, he showed no grit or heart what so ever in that fight. If you want to say he did, than Tyson showed heart for summining up the strength to knock out Botha while he was outjabbed and trailing on all cards.

Tyson already proved his heart by going 19 brutal rounds with Ruddock without being knocked out let alone knocked down, the savage beating he took from Douglas and the shots (as well as illegal) shots he took from Holyfield.

As for Tyson not going down under a single shot, Lewis' right hand was a single shot and he went over and out. If you are saying McCall and Rahman only hit Lewis once in their wins you are going into strange uncharted territories of error.
Old Tyson took Lewis' best shots and it still took him 8 rounds to finally finish him off. Tyson has never been counted out by a single blow and that is a proven fact whether you like it or not.

Lewis on the other hand has not only been sparked out once...but TWICE! Tyson could take what he can inflict on others, Lewis however has not proven it.

can you stop with this 8 round bullshit.
Lewis was carrying him for 4 rounds to put a beating on him and said as much he could have taken him out any round 4 on.

gregor · Post by **gregor** » 24 Aug 2007, 17:50

Terry D wrote:Actually Tyson lost the fight in the first round. He threw a shot and Lewis hit him with a right uppercut and left hook, Tyson covered and they were not huge shots but they put Tyson back in his little box and it was just a matter of seeing it out for Lewis.

You may be right, the thing is Tyson was shot both physically and mentally at this time. Prime Tyson was not bothered to take better punches than the ones from Lewis (I mean the 1st round which we were discussing).

Terry D wrote: Peak Tyson was still mentally deficient.

I'm not sure. He wasn't probably as tough as Holyfield, but still there is no proof he was deficient (I mean in his prime - you can of course say he just wasn't properly tested, so there is not much point going too much into this).

tko123 · Post by **tko123** » 02 Sep 2007, 18:11

Tyson was a bum, Lews would destroy him at any time.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 04 Sep 2007, 00:16

tysons alot of a better fighter than tua... would be a good fight remember tyson caught douglas on there fight if it had of been lewis on the end of that punch it woulda been goodnight... but a tyson that was prepared would eventually get throught lewis' jab

cultus said
The fight with Mercer showed Lewises weaknesses against all out pressure fighter with a jab. Tyson was smaller but faster and hit harder and was the better puncher. At the same time you could see that Lewis had very good style to beat Tyson. But .. im going with Tyson.. for me the young campion who sparked Michael Spinks could have beaten any HW in the history of boxing on there best night. But that's just me.. so don't rip on this.

i would agree with you there but i think a prim ali could do him tho

BAMBI · Post by **BAMBI** » 09 Oct 2007, 06:20

how would tyson do against lewis in 1996??

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 09 Oct 2007, 15:22

He would have been beaten brutally.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 09 Oct 2007, 15:50

jimglen wrote:Tyson by mid to later round KO, absolutely "no other outcome!"

the Tyson that fought Lewis was NOT Tyson, and Lennox is the 'most' overated HW in history, prime 4 prime, peak for peak Tyson destroys him like he did everybody else... case closed!

Lewis was hardly in his prime either.

He is OLDER than Tyson; but he won because he was the better fighter, able to adpat & change, to accommodate his declining physical ability.

Tyson never really knocked out anybody late.

For him to win, Lewis would have had to have had an Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman moment & get clocked very early, otherwise Lewis would have carved him up & stopped him; an outcome I think would have been the most likely IMO.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 09 Oct 2007, 15:51

Part of the reason why Lewis was clocked by McCall & Rahman was that he was overconfident and reckless. This wouldn't have happened against Tyson.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 09 Oct 2007, 15:53

BAMBI wrote:how would tyson do against lewis in 1996??

Tyson is lucky that fight did not happen in 1996, or he would have been battered systematically.

Tyson is lucky allround.

Losing to Douglas in 1990 saved him from a pummelling by Holyfield in '90 & his troubles & tribulations & subsequent gaoling, saved him from another probable beating from Holyfield in 1991.

Tyson was 'lucky' like that!!!! :P