US Olympic Trials - Results

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Aug 2007, 12:26

Luke - I saw the videos before they were removed. I think that USAB would prefer that bouts not be recorded so that the officiating can't be scrutinized by everyone. Sort of like a lot of physicians who will no longer allow people to videotape the births of their children - they were getting sued and the Plaintiffs had video proof of their screw-ups.

Dennis, I'm really surprised at you regarding the above statement. USA Boxing matches are video taped all the time - USAB even sells DVD's of major events. HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE - NBC had the exclusive rights to the Olympic Trials. There were signs at the front door stating that no video taping was being allowed. Nice to know that some people believe that not doing what is asked is okay. Luke was well aware of the fact that video cameras were not allowed in the venue. This was actually a USOC-sponsored event and, therefore, treated differently than any other USAB event.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Aug 2007, 12:40

do think that after this Olympics, when the scoring gets revamped, we'll start to see some improvement in US success again.

Emile, the only scoring revamp I know about is (1) open scoring, i.e., allowing the spectators to see the scoring and (2) having the first tie breaker come from the accepted rather than the raw score. I don't know of any other changes.

Any word on what boxers are going to try and qualify for other countries yet ?

I didn't hear anything, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been mentioned.

I figure Mike Wilson

What country does he have dual citizenship with???

Miguel Gonzalez

At this point, he'll be at the PAL.

Keith Thurman

And he's a dual citizen of what country? I talked to him and he's going pro.

and Danny Jacobs

Dual citizen of what country?

ringsidemike · Post by **ringsidemike** » 27 Aug 2007, 13:40

Isn't the Bronx it's own country? j/k ..

I know they already had their National Tournament in Mexico (and Josh Garza won 178), but I think Belmontes and Perales may be able to go to Chicago via Mexico..

I also know one of the Bronx fighters that was training here last week is now trying to get to Chicago via Trinidad.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Aug 2007, 13:57

Hi Mike - Last I checked, Bronx had not received country status.

Was nice meeting you last week and I hope you continue to stay active on this forum and with the reporting of amateur boxing.

Regarding your comment about the tournament "crowd" - unfortunately, this is par for the course for amateur boxing. The spectators are usually friends, family, boxers and coaches. I attibute this to the fact that amateur boxing is not a popular sport with the average boxing fan, who would much rather watch a blubberweight pro pound his opponent into the canvas, with lots of blood flying.

I think Mexico has already picked their team for Chicago, but you never know what switch they might make at the last minute.

holeymoley99 · Post by **holeymoley99** » 27 Aug 2007, 15:46

Mel, how hard is it for an athlete to obtain dual citizenship when a country thinks it can help them achieve Olympic fame ? Some countries have much more lax rules then others do.

I would guess many of the top boxers who really wanted to fight in the Olympics have already done the homework on what their options may be if they fell short of making our squad.

That is why I mentioned those I did,each fighter mentioned has a real shot at winning bouts in the Olympic Games. Wilson as a Superheavyweight could parlay a good Olympic showing into some real impressive money once he turned pro. Jacobs filing an appeal shows how badly he wanted to make the team. Gonzalez staying amateur after winning bouts in the 2004 trials says something about his desire and he nearly made it all the way this time.

Since our trials are so early as opposed to other Olympic Trial years fighters have more time to catch on if they so desired.

2004 we saw how many guys use this route ? 3 that I can recall of the top of my head in Berto-Haiti,George Garcia-Mexico and Clarence Joseph.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 27 Aug 2007, 16:14

I would imagine someone like Fernando Guerrero might try it; as he's Dominican I believe. Some countries have looser rules as well; I'm not sure but I think if it was done enough in advance the Canadians are pretty flexible (I Seem to recall them having an Olympian back before the 2002 Olympics being given Canadian citizenship by a special act of Parliament in like January 2002); and some guys might have ancestors coming from countries that have ancestry rules. If he wasn't in the Army; I would say that maybe Boyd Melson could try for Israel (I doubt he would, as I understand he's quite patriotic and is a West Point grad, obviously).

holeymoley99 · Post by **holeymoley99** » 27 Aug 2007, 16:25

I heard Oscar Molina (Javier's twin) was attempting to make the Mexican team though Mel said she thought that squad had already been picked so not sure how good that information is.

emile · Post by **emile** » 27 Aug 2007, 16:31

Kolya wrote:I would imagine someone like Fernando Guerrero might try it; as he's Dominican I believe. Some countries have looser rules as well; I'm not sure but I think if it was done enough in advance the Canadians are pretty flexible (I Seem to recall them having an Olympian back before the 2002 Olympics being given Canadian citizenship by a special act of Parliament in like January 2002); and some guys might have ancestors coming from countries that have ancestry rules. If he wasn't in the Army; I would say that maybe Boyd Melson could try for Israel (I doubt he would, as I understand he's quite patriotic and is a West Point grad, obviously).

I don't think Guerrero would have too much of an easier time, as Argenis Nunez has had some solid international experience.

ringsidemike · Post by **ringsidemike** » 27 Aug 2007, 16:32

Thanks Mel, it was great to meet you. I had a blast, and am hooked on the amateurs now. I even cover LBCs for a local website.

I hope the crowds in Chicago are bigger. I was told the crowds in Houston were similar in CoSprings and Tenn.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 27 Aug 2007, 17:24

boxmel wrote:
Luke - I saw the videos before they were removed. I think that USAB would prefer that bouts not be recorded so that the officiating can't be scrutinized by everyone. Sort of like a lot of physicians who will no longer allow people to videotape the births of their children - they were getting sued and the Plaintiffs had video proof of their screw-ups.
Dennis, I'm really surprised at you regarding the above statement. USA Boxing matches are video taped all the time - USAB even sells DVD's of major events. HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE - NBC had the exclusive rights to the Olympic Trials. There were signs at the front door stating that no video taping was being allowed. Nice to know that some people believe that not doing what is asked is okay. Luke was well aware of the fact that video cameras were not allowed in the venue. This was actually a USOC-sponsored event and, therefore, treated differently than any other USAB event.

It is more difficult to scrutinize if they aren't videotaped. You are correct that USAB sometimes sells videos of their events. There have been many events where they haven't done so. However, you may be correct that scrutinization avoidance was not their primary objective in not wanting it taped. I know that selling the rights to NBC is important. If they are obliged by contract to ensure that nobody tapes the bouts, I understand. It is frustrating that NBC buys the rights and then doesn't even tape many of the bouts. Although it has happened before with other networks too and was just as frustrating then.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 27 Aug 2007, 18:00

ringsidemike wrote:Thanks Mel, it was great to meet you. I had a blast, and am hooked on the amateurs now. I even cover LBCs for a local website.

I hope the crowds in Chicago are bigger. I was told the crowds in Houston were similar in CoSprings and Tenn.

Yes the crowds in Colo Springs were pathetic for the US Championships. The crowds in Chattanooga were better but not great. Omaha did a great job in 2006 for the Nat'l GG and had huge crowds for the semi-finals and finals in the Qwest Center. I think they did a good job of marketing the event in Omaha. The midwestern trials in Cincinnati had better crowds than the US Championships and the place was sold out for the finals (2,000 fans I would guess). The Michigan GG also has sold-out crowds of 2,300 or more (standing room only) so it can be done.

I hope the crowds in Chicago are big. I will do my part to help and I live 2.5 hours away.

ringsidemike · Post by **ringsidemike** » 28 Aug 2007, 10:00

If anyone's interested, here are links to my interviews from the Trials Finals.

http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=10078

or

http://www.BS.com//forums/view ... xing_video

I think the Dan Campbell interview turned out well.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 28 Aug 2007, 12:02

Saod Dennis:

It is more difficult to scrutinize if they aren't videotaped.

Why, pray tell, would USAB be afraid that the refeereeing would be scrutinized? I really don't understand your point.

However, you may be correct that scrutinization avoidance was not their primary objective in not wanting it taped.

Again, why would USAB want to avoid scrutinization? There were plenty of people there who were either happy with the officiating, or not. Nothing new. Yes, I am correct that USAB was not avoiding scrutiny.

I know that selling the rights to NBC is important. If they are obliged by contract to ensure that nobody tapes the bouts, I understand.

You finally agree with me???

It is frustrating that NBC buys the rights and then doesn't even tape many of the bouts.

NBC taped all the bouts - however we don't know when or who they will show. It might all be tied in to a pre-Olympic hoopla that happens months from now.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 28 Aug 2007, 13:03

boxmel wrote: NBC taped all the bouts - however we don't know when or who they will show. It might all be tied in to a pre-Olympic hoopla that happens months from now.

I was told that they were not taping the first day's bouts. I doubt that they taped every bout, but I hope they did. However, I guess it doesn't matter as they will probably never sell copies of the tapes and won't air all of the bouts. I hope I'm wrong and they show the trials in their entirety.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 28 Aug 2007, 13:18

My error - they only taped the finals on Saturday. They were supposed to tape the Challenger finals on Friday (as a lead-in to Saturday's bouts) but I don't think they did.

ringsidemike · Post by **ringsidemike** » 28 Aug 2007, 14:11

M-Th there were misc video cameras recording, but nothing consistently and they probably only got a handful of bouts. Not even sure if it was NBC cameras or not. I am 99% sure no cameras recorded any of Yanez bouts before Sat, and none got Russell's loss.

NBC got all of Sat and Sun. I thought they got Fri too, but not sure.

I do know that the local NBC affiliate got Williams-Williams on both Sat & Sun.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 28 Aug 2007, 14:34

M-Th there were misc video cameras recording, but nothing consistently and they probably only got a handful of bouts.

Yeah - the illegal cams. :P I wonder if those sneaking in video cameras felt at all guilty - also tells me the cops/security people were not doing their job.....Some of the local TV stations were there and allowed to film.

Not even sure if it was NBC cameras or not.

Weren't. As I said, NBC was supposed to tape on Friday night and they didn't. Glad to hear they stuck around until Sunday for the last two bouts.

JohnDoe · Post by **JohnDoe** » 29 Aug 2007, 00:08

Sneaking in a cam and feeling guilty? Are you kidding me? NBC or USA Boxing or the Olympic committee didn't give a damn if ANY of these fights were recorded for even historical archival purposes. That is absolutely pathetic and anyone who did get a camera in and record fights should be applauded because it was the right thing to do.

USA Boxing made a last-minute deal with NBC to try to get some quick cash without putting one ounce of brain into the negotiations or concern for recording the fights for the official record. The press person for USA Boxing is HORRIBLE and she is responsible for the fact that almost no newspapers covered it and less then zero press was generated for it. The new CEO is just filling the shoes of the job and is not a boxing person at all and has no vision at all that will fill seats. Someone needs to 'coup d'etat' USA Boxing. Now I wish that A2P would have taken over.

janedoe · Post by **janedoe** » 29 Aug 2007, 00:23

We have seen several of the bouts that were taped. Thank God. It is proof of how unethical the whole trials were. I don't really know how they planned it but it is clear that the team was picked prior to the event. Several actions have confirmed that. I hope the people involved sleep well. They have the sweat of the athletes that were robbed on their pillows and it is my prayer that they never have a good nights sleep again. I believe what goes around eventually comes back. Those involved know who they are. I hope it all turns out for them for 2008. I believe it will backfire and again it will be a disapointing Olympic year.

JohnDoe · Post by **JohnDoe** » 29 Aug 2007, 01:11

Just for the record, I'm not related to janedoe. Or if we are distant cousins, it must be a branch far out on the tree....

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 29 Aug 2007, 09:49

John, and unrelated Jane, Doe - I would be particularly interested in knowing where you got your information regarding NBC AND the "cheating" you insinuated. I would be especially interested in knowing how the judges "picked" the team ahead of time. I would also like to ask if Jane Doe has ever been an amateur boxing judge and, if so, how she would go about "picking" the boxers via computer scoring. Please also explain why the USA Boxing media person is responsible for no live coverage or press.

And, FYI, A2P would not have taken over - that's the sole privilege of the USOC. It's just too bad we lost their sponsorship.

Sigh. I have no idea why I even bothered to answer either Doe - neither are reasonable or knowledgeable. Sorry.

JohnDoe · Post by **JohnDoe** » 29 Aug 2007, 11:34

First of all, I'm not related to janedoe. She's just a Copycat and sounds angry about the results of her boxer.

I'm not knowledgeable? Maybe you should stick to the computers then boxmel if your rebuttal is reduced to personal insults.

I know all the details of the NBC deal. Do you?

The Director of Media Relations is responsible for generating interest among the press by generating great press releases so they have stories to cover. Julie Goldsticker doesn't even interact with the media and is more concerned about flirting with her favorite boxers than about getting great press.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 29 Aug 2007, 12:03

I'm not knowledgeable? Maybe you should stick to the computers then boxmel if your rebuttal is reduced to personal insults.

That comment was not meant as a personal insult. I'm sorry you took it that way. IF you are a trained and certified official, I do apologize.

I know all the details of the NBC deal. Do you?

No - should I? Would you like to enlighten us? My comments were confined to the fact that people were sneaking in video cams when asked not to.

Julie Goldsticker doesn't even interact with the media

If you know this is a fact, maybe you should let the new ED know so he can consider getting someone else. I did see her interacting with the media at the venue........

ringsidemike · Post by **ringsidemike** » 29 Aug 2007, 13:52

I thought Julie did a very good job at the event. She made sure every single media member had everything that they needed and she put out multiple daily press releases which were cited all over the internet. The Media Guide document was excellent as well.

On usaboxing.org page you can apply online for the Director of Marketing position...

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 29 Aug 2007, 14:28

janedoe wrote:We have seen several of the bouts that were taped. Thank God. It is proof of how unethical the whole trials were. I don't really know how they planned it but it is clear that the team was picked prior to the event. Several actions have confirmed that. I hope the people involved sleep well. They have the sweat of the athletes that were robbed on their pillows and it is my prayer that they never have a good nights sleep again. I believe what goes around eventually comes back. Those involved know who they are. I hope it all turns out for them for 2008. I believe it will backfire and again it will be a disapointing Olympic year.

So who do you have a crush on that didn't get picked? A lot of people I Know say USA Boxing is a bit of an old boys club; and I can see how; but you're going past that and saying there was a massive conspiracy involving USA Boxing and the AIBA to select certain boxers that the officials in USA Boxing like. To be frank, that's ridiculous. If there was, we wouldn't have Shawn Estrada and Michael Hunter on the team; Estrada is notorious for melting down (he pulled it together in the Trials) and Wilson is much more experienced and more mature than Hunter.