HW Champion's Big Wins

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 27 Aug 2007, 11:46

Just for fun, I compiled a list of career wins by Heavyweight champions over opponents that were either the heavyweight champion or ranked in the top 10 (of the heavyweight division) in Ring Magazine's annual rankings. Unfortunately, Ring didn't start their rankings until 1924. Nevertheless this still covers several decades of boxing history.

1. Muhammad Ali (33)
2. Joe Louis (31)
3. Ezzard Charles (21)
4. Larry Holmes (15)
5. Lennox Lewis (14)
6. Evander Holyfield (13)
6. Mike Tyson (13)
8. Jersey Joe Walcott (11)
9. Rocky Marciano (10)
9. Floyd Patterson (10)
11. Joe Frazier (9)
11. Max Baer (9)
13. Sonny Liston 8
13. Jack Sharkey 8
15. George Foreman (7)
16. Gene Tunney (6)
16. Max Schmeling (6)
18. Primo Carnera (5)
19. Ken Norton (4)
19. Riddick Bowe (4)
19. Jimmy Braddock (4)
22. Ingemar Johansson (3)
23. Michael Spinks (2)
23. Leon Spinks (2)
23. Hasim Rahman (2)
26. Michael Moorer (1)

Of course this isn't meant to be the best way to measure a fighter's career, but nevertheless it's interesting.
For me, the biggest surprise was Charles (with 21 wins) being so high.
Would like to hear other people's thoughts on the results.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 27 Aug 2007, 16:14

Yeah, I'm not surprised with Charles having a good rating, but third is surprising. Charles' career is amazing.

No surprise in Ali and Louis being so far ahead of everyone else, more than half of Ali's wins against top 10 Heavyweights (33 out of 56), but I would have thought some of those other guys would have had more.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 28 Aug 2007, 00:39

..ezzard's high numbers include champions and highly rated fighters also in the lower divisions, right..and not just heavyweights? When you throw those in..when he was a light heavyweight himself, it's an outstanding record. interesting here, if you include those guys...check out llolyd marshall and jimmy bivins. they are one and two in guys who beat the most fighters who were at one time or another champions (including, sigh, ezzard) but who never got shots at the title.

ali and joe louis are impressive in different ways....ali in the number and his widely separated reigns...from liston to foreman...and louis for tjhe way he just bowled over so many of his opponents.

anway, this is a good threat and thanks for starting it....there were more than a few surprises.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Aug 2007, 07:10

Alp

Are The Ring ratings available on line?

Roaring · Post by **Roaring** » 28 Aug 2007, 19:53

as far as i know Lennox beat 20 world champs

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 29 Aug 2007, 04:24

Thanks, Dec.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 29 Aug 2007, 09:26

Ezzard- Sorry I wasn't on yesterday, but it looks like Decagon put up the link. I am noticing a few descrepancies between the link and a book that I have, but still overall this seems pretty accurrate.

Jaclem-As for Ezzard Charles, I am only counting his wins over heavyweights. If you count his wins over Top 10 heavyweights before he was the heavyweight champion, winning the title, title defenses, and wins after he lost the title it comes to 21. I was surprised as well.
If you count his wins over at middleweight and lightheavyweight, he would have actually have 38 over champions/ranked opponents in his career.

Roaring-I'm not sure how you are arriving at the figure of 20 world champions that Lewis beat, but for this thread I am only counting it if the opponent was the champion or in the Top 10 at the time of the fight. For example, Lewis beat former champion Mike Weaver in 1991, but it doesn't count because Weaver was no longer a contender or the champion at the time.

I was a little surprised that Baer and Sharkey were higher than Schmeling.
I also thought that it was interesting that Holmes had 15, but only 1 was before he won the title and only 1 was after he was the champion.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 29 Aug 2007, 10:05

Tunney with 6 is very interesting because many disregard him at HW because they believe his resume to be not up to scratch. He's got more than Bowe and Norton and is only 1 below Foreman who is a regular in people's top 5.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 29 Aug 2007, 12:55

..alp..thanks for the clarification. here am i , the great booster of all things ezzard..and i was surprised about that high number. then i got to thinking about joe baksi, elmer ray and some others and realized how many top rated heavyweights he did fight.

..again....the entire list was very informative...

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Aug 2007, 16:39

Roaring wrote:as far as i know Lennox beat 20 world champs

In the words of Linus . . "good grief" . . .

funso banjo baby · Post by **funso banjo baby** » 30 Aug 2007, 07:26

id be interested to know if u can make a list of which HW Champs have spent the longest time in the ring ratings ?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 30 Aug 2007, 14:31

funso-I will do that, but will take some time. It's a little tedious.

The results have forced me to reevaluate my all-time heavyweight ratings. I knew Charles belong somewhere with the pack of mid-level heavyweight champions such as: Corbett,Fitzsimmons,Schmeling,Sharkey,Baer,Walcott, Patterson etc. and a few non-champions, but exactly where?
Charles certainly doesn't deserve to be above the top level heavyweights champions, but for now I am going to list him ahead of all the rest of the mid-level heavyweight champions. Until there is some other compelling evidence that supports someone else!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 30 Aug 2007, 15:15

Ambling Alp wrote:Just for fun, I compiled a list of career wins by Heavyweight champions over opponents that were either the heavyweight champion or ranked in the top 10 (of the heavyweight division) in Ring Magazine's annual rankings. Unfortunately, Ring didn't start their rankings until 1924. Nevertheless this still covers several decades of boxing history.

1. Muhammad Ali (33)
2. Joe Louis (31)
3. Ezzard Charles (21)
4. Larry Holmes (15)
5. Lennox Lewis (14)
6. Evander Holyfield (13)
6. Mike Tyson (13)
8. Jersey Joe Walcott (11)
9. Rocky Marciano (10)
9. Floyd Patterson (10)
11. Joe Frazier (9)
11. Max Baer (9)
13. Sonny Liston 8
13. Jack Sharkey 8
15. George Foreman (7)
16. Gene Tunney (6)
16. Max Schmeling (6)
18. Primo Carnera (5)
19. Ken Norton (4)
19. Riddick Bowe (4)
19. Jimmy Braddock (4)
22. Ingemar Johansson (3)
23. Michael Spinks (2)
23. Leon Spinks (2)
23. Hasim Rahman (2)
26. Michael Moorer (1)

Of course this isn't meant to be the best way to measure a fighter's career, but nevertheless it's interesting.
For me, the biggest surprise was Charles (with 21 wins) being so high.
Would like to hear other people's thoughts on the results.

Take this one step further and list the same peoples number of losses to CHAMPIONS ONLY. I think that would add an interesting subtle nuance....since those would have to be considered pretty honorable losses....except for those losses to Primo Carnera. However to be fair those losses should be in the mix as well.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 Aug 2007, 00:09

..johannsen, joe louis and michael spinks lost only to champions. these are just those that come to mind...i'm not going to take the time to do boxbuzzes search through the record books for him.

oh hell..toss in corbett and jeffries too...or does the buzzy one mean those who lost only to champions but weren't champions themselves?

HW Champion's Big Wins

HW Champion's Big Wins

Re: HW Champion's Big Wins