Kostya Tszyu

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 04 Sep 2007, 00:23

were would you guys rate Kostya Tszyu in australia we rank him as a great but im interested to see what people from other country's think about him.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 04 Sep 2007, 03:17

I would say a hall of famer easily but I agree that he is not up there with mayweather or golden boy. Perhaps on the next level down. Still he has a record that will always have him in the mix when people discuss the best Jun Weltrs.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 04 Sep 2007, 05:15

I would actually rate Tszyu ahead of Pryor and Chavez, about on a level with De La Hoya.

I think his resume is extremely impressive, but still doesn't quite do justice to how good he really was.

However, I am an Australian also, so my opinion doesn't count.

:(

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 04 Sep 2007, 05:52

Id rank him as a Jr WW up there with the best - on a par with Pryor and DLH, maybe a notch below Chavez and Mayweather

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 04 Sep 2007, 10:19

Both Pryor and Tsyzu were the best Jr Welterweights of their generation, so its fair enough to compare them.
Pryors best wins were over the smaller Arguello, and the old Cervantes, both great fighters but not at their peak.
Tsyzu had some good wins on his resume aside from beating the older Chavez - Judah, Gonzalez, Mitchell etc.
In defence of Tsyzu, his loss to Hatton when he was getting on himself.
A fight between them at their peak would have been some match up

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Sep 2007, 10:50

As far as beating the better competition, it's a matter of how you look at things. Pryor's biggest win (Arguello) was much more impressive than any of Tsyzu's wins. Arguello fought a great fight and it's hard to imagine Tsyzu beating Arguello. After that, there is a big drop off for Pryor. Cervantes wasn't a shot fighter when Pryor beat him, but he certainly wasn't as good as he once was. After that, Pryor really didn't beat anyone special. His legacy would have been more impressive had he beaten one of the other top Jr welters like Mamby,Haley or Costello. He probably would have beaten them, but the fact is that he didn't.

There really isn't any one win that Tsysu had that was particularly impressive, but he did have several solid wins, certainly more than Pryor.
However, Tsysu did have the loss to Phillips, a good but not great fighter. Pryor never lost at this weight.

Pryor really looked great on tape, and Tsyzu never really looked that impressive to me. In a head to head matchup, Pryor should be able to win this.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Sep 2007, 11:04

I'd fancy Tsyzu in this one. He had a really good right hand and acrried more power at the weight than Arguello. These two would swap punches and Tsyzu would land that right consistently.

I understand why many rate Pryor higher but I think he'd lose this one.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Sep 2007, 11:05

Also, beating Arguello was a great win for Pryor but Alexis had moved up through a number of divisions and there was the matter of that bottle...

JC · Post by JC » 04 Sep 2007, 11:23

Tsyzu is a fighter I always enjoyed watching, he had a monster right hand and fantastic ring generalship. I'd probably have him in the top ten fighters of the last 15 years, but behind guys like Roy Jones, Riccardo Lopez, De La Hoya, MAB and Mayweather, mainly because he's short any real mega fight wins.

He seems to get slightly overrated by some Aussie fans (along with Jeff Fenech), but that's entirely understandable as both were fighters to be proud of. I think Tsyzu would have been a really tough fight for Mayweather, possibly with Mayweather being forced onto the back foot all night and losing a decision.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Sep 2007, 11:33

Cervantes and Tszyu are a pair of truly great SuperLightweight Champions. I think both should be given the nod over another perrenial name that shows up in this catagory.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Sep 2007, 11:40

Decagon wrote:Can anyone here say that he was even remotely as talented as Nicolino Loche with a straight face?

Loche was without a doubt one of the best. I certainly was not referring to him.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Sep 2007, 12:16

Ezzard wrote:Also, beating Arguello was a great win for Pryor but Alexis had moved up through a number of divisions and there was the matter of that bottle...

I guess I never really cared about the magic bottle controversy. That story seems overblown. Pryor did win the 2nd fight anyway. Arguello had moved up in weight, but I don't think that is a big deal. Fighters in the lower weight classes routinely move up in weight as their bodies mature. Arguello was still only 30 and hadn't shown any signs of slowing down. This was a great fight and Tsysu never did anything this impressive.
Certainly wouldn't bet on Tsysu beating Arguello. Arguello was simply a couple of levels a head of him.
I'm not convinced that Tsyzu would have even beat past his prime but still good Cervantes that Pryor destroyed. He certainly wouldn't have beaten him as easily as Pryor did.
Can't imagine Pryor losing to Phillips like Tsysu like did or anyone that Tsyzu ever beat.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 04 Sep 2007, 19:26

i think tszyu could beat whitaker.. tszyu was always great against slick southpaws he is 8-0 8kos with southpaws

he would giva mayweather a hard time as he jst always seem to be able to cut the slick guys off

chavez and tszyu would be a war i believe neither man would want to stop coming forward all night and they would be throwing bombs at each other

i dont know about pryor and arguello as i havnt seen them fight (only in highlights)

tgchungmj · Post by **tgchungmj** » 05 Sep 2007, 21:50

I am really surprised to see that anyone can think Tszyu can beat Whitaker.

Southpaws Tszyu beat and Whitaker are totally in different level. If the two met in their prime Whitaker will have a wide UD.

Tszyu will have a difficulty in a fight with Pryor also..Maybe he will be kayoed by Hawk.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 05 Sep 2007, 22:34

Kosta Tszyu was a pretty good fighter, but he doesn't rate with the JWW division's best. He beat a 38 yr old Chavez by TKO, a prime JCC would have positively slaughtered him.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 06 Sep 2007, 07:26

Seamus wrote:Kosta Tszyu was a pretty good fighter, but he doesn't rate with the JWW division's best. He beat a 38 yr old Chavez by TKO, a prime JCC would have positively slaughtered him.

Who did Chavez beat that was so good? He was one of the most protected overrated fighters of the last 20 years,
Out of 110 fights he fought about 100 Bums.

I know im going to get shit for this but ive been saying it for years yet he still gets overrated year after year.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Sep 2007, 08:50

I think Tzsyu (do i spell his name differently every time I post?) is among the best opf the division and Chavez definitely.

I like the fact that Chavez had over 100 fights. I'd rather fighters be busy and give the fans some appearances than just pick 1 or 2 fights a year. As long as there enough big names in there it's good for the sport IMO.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 06 Sep 2007, 09:02

Ezzard wrote:I think Tzsyu (do i spell his name differently every time I post?) is among the best opf the division and Chavez definitely.

I like the fact that Chavez had over 100 fights. I'd rather fighters be busy and give the fans some appearances than just pick 1 or 2 fights a year. As long as there enough big names in there it's good for the sport IMO.

Its good to stay active but when he is 50-0 and he is fighting guys who are 3-5 or 4 -10 its a bit much.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Sep 2007, 10:11

ben k wrote:
Ezzard wrote:I think Tzsyu (do i spell his name differently every time I post?) is among the best opf the division and Chavez definitely.

I like the fact that Chavez had over 100 fights. I'd rather fighters be busy and give the fans some appearances than just pick 1 or 2 fights a year. As long as there enough big names in there it's good for the sport IMO.
Its good to stay active but when he is 50-0 and he is fighting guys who are 3-5 or 4 -10 its a bit much.

It's just glorified sparring, if you like...but it still keeps him active. Allows people top go and watch him, gives a Joe at the bottom a pay day and as long as he fights the best contenders too I don't see what the problem is. None of those fights were billed as title fights.

I think the real problem is when guys like Eubank and Roy Jones took way too many soft options and tried to sell them as legitimate title bouts.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Sep 2007, 10:50

That's nonsense that Chavez fought a bunch of nobody's in his first 50 fights. Fighters records in places like Mexico are very often incomplete. You could say the same thing about Zarate, Sanchez, Canto, Olivares etc. You could even include Duran and Arguello because they fought alot of guys who record wise appear to be bums.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 07 Sep 2007, 20:17

Seamus wrote:That's nonsense that Chavez fought a bunch of nobody's in his first 50 fights. Fighters records in places like Mexico are very often incomplete. You could say the same thing about Zarate, Sanchez, Canto, Olivares etc. You could even include Duran and Arguello because they fought alot of guys who record wise appear to be bums.

Sorry Seamus, but they did not appear to be bums, they were bums. Incomplete records means that they were not important enough to keep track of their fights. Probably cab drivers that just fought a few fights to make some money. Ask yourself this question, How come Zarate, Chavez, and so on did have all their fights accounted for?

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 08 Sep 2007, 01:01

Decagon wrote:
ben k wrote:Who did Chavez beat that was so good? He was one of the most protected overrated fighters of the last 20 years,
Out of 110 fights he fought about 100 Bums.

I know im going to get shit for this but ive been saying it for years yet he still gets overrated year after year.
I grew up surrounded by Mexicans telling me that Chavez was the second coming of Jesus, but he beat some very good fighters:
Ruben Castillo: Watch the Arguello bout and tell me he's a bum. Go ahead. He took three of the greatest Latin American fighters of all time to the limit.

Roger Mayweather: Two-division titlist, sculptor of the Mayweather style.

Rocky Lockridge: Two-time titlist. Took Eusebio Pedroza to a disputed decision. Perennial fight-of-the-year contender. Huge hitter.

Juan LaPorte: Former featherweight titlist. One of the biggest hitters you'll see.

Edwin Rosario: Hall-of-Fame fighter. Huge power.

Raphael "Bazooka" Limon: On paper, a good opponent. In reality, not.

Jose Luis Rodriguez: He was coming off a very disputed win over Pernell Whitaker, which he should have lost, but he had a SOLID career at 135.

Sammy Fuentes: A tough jr. welterweight who's often forgotten.

Meldrick Taylor: One of the fastest fighters I've ever seen.

Frankie Mitchell: Tough Philly lightweight.

Hector Camacho: One of the fastest fighters I've ever seen.

Greg Haugen: Three-time titlist

Terrence Alli: In another thread, we talked about fighters destroying another fighter with one fight. This is one.
The only fighter Chavez should have faced earlier that he didn't was Whitaker, and the two unfortunately met at 147. I wish they'd have met at 135.

Ok out of 110 he fought 95 bums im wrong by about 5 fights, Im just not convinced that the list you put there is any better than a lot of fighters around his weight and he did fight a hell of a lot of bums.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 08 Sep 2007, 08:19

Tszyu had some firepower, but there's no way in hell that a prime Chavez would get stopped by Vince Phillips or almost taken out in the 1st by Diosbelys Hurtado.

theone · Post by **theone** » 08 Sep 2007, 09:45

Many great fighters fought alot early in their careers and lost to less than stellar opposition. Armstrong, Monzon, Saddler,among others. These losses get dismissed, (rightfully so)because these fighters weren't considered at their best yet.
But Chavez for some reason gets shit for fighting the same type of schedule against similar competition even though he won them all. Doesn't make a hell of alot of sense to me.

theone · Post by **theone** » 08 Sep 2007, 11:47

Tszyu was in his prime when he lost to Phillips. Armstrong only had a few fights when he lost those first fights.

I agree 100% Dec. Did i come off like I didn't?