Has allegedly closed British Eastside?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 27 Nov 2003, 09:43

Bridgie, yes, however I do notice that you do not post here under your own name.....

Also, boxing unlike other fields of journalism is very small and closed shop, there are not that many directions you can go in, and if you shit on your own doorstep the house is small enough that the smell travels.

What field do you write about out of interest?

Tuffnutz · Post by **Tuffnutz** » 27 Nov 2003, 09:43

He can shut em down but we will always be one.

He can shut em down but we can build another.

The "TOSSER" will never defeat us

Britsh boxing fans are the best in the world and where theres one ESB/Seconds out poster, others will follow. 8)

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 27 Nov 2003, 09:56

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bridgie, yes, however I do notice that you do not post here under your own name.....

Also, boxing unlike other fields of journalism is very small and closed shop, there are not that many directions you can go in, and if you shit on your own doorstep the house is small enough that the smell travels.

What field do you write about out of interest?

Don't worry about the lack of my own name, I'm based in Dubai, so thankfully don't have to worry about the wrath of angry promoters!
I realise that boxing is a closed shop and therefore the temptation at your stage to get in by any means is perfectly understandable, but as I said, the danger is that it sets a precedent that can affect your career and the way you are perceived in the long term.
Think of any journalists you admire, whether inside or outside boxing, and ask yourself a) whether they'd tow the line for fear of losing a press pass or b) what makes them such good writers - their willingness to voice their own opinions perhaps?
I'm perhaps making far too much of one particular issue to stress a point of principle, but the flipside of this is that you could argue that if you tackled a subject matter that others are shying away from and produced a great story from it without offending the parties involved (it is possible, just!), you'll have made an immediate impact and created a name for yourself. As long as any report is factual, fair and balanced, it's very difficult for people to have a beef with you.
As for me, I'm thankfully not involved in boxing, but am a group editor at ITP. You can check us out on http://www.itp.com
All the best.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:09

tolstoy wrote:
Goz wrote: I couldn't agree more with you here, Goz. The only problem I foresee is that we may not be able to prove it if the websites involved refuse to confirm the reason for their closure. If we get them onside then we've got a great opportunity to expose this blatant censorship.

Can anyone provide us with unequivocal proof about the invisible hand behind this mysterious closure?

Tolstoy - Proof or not, surely it's without question than the 3 sites have been closed down for some reason, that alone is suspcious and worth investigation coupled with certain words being 'asterixed' out and the like...

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:23

What would probably be ideal is a forgeign based site setting up a British forum (if anything were to happen here which I hope it will not) where libel laws don't apply so we can say what the freak we like.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:35

Goz wrote:What would probably be ideal is a forgeign based site setting up a British forum (if anything were to happen here which I hope it will not) where libel laws don't apply so we can say what the freak we like.

It's a good idea, but even if they couldn't touch the website, they'd probably be able to take action against individuals posting from the UK (assuming they could uncover their identity of course).

Tuffnutz · Post by **Tuffnutz** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:41

Bridgie Boy, are you AKA Deserter?

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:42

Tuffnutz wrote:Bridgie Boy, are you AKA Deserter?

Yes mate. Would actually like to change my name back to that now but my attempt was unsuccessful.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:44

Pretty sure that ESB is based out of Germany.
Looks like FW (or whoever it is..) has far reaching arms!!

Tuffnutz · Post by **Tuffnutz** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:57

bridgie boy wrote:
Tuffnutz wrote:Bridgie Boy, are you AKA Deserter?
Yes mate. Would actually like to change my name back to that now but my attempt was unsuccessful.

Email Bennie or another Moderator if you want to change your name. I'm sure one of them will help you out.

Terry, i think ESB is based in New York mate

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 27 Nov 2003, 10:58

Denmark and Germany actually. It was based on the name of
a USA gym, but it has no American connections.

TT · Post by TT » 27 Nov 2003, 12:22

Tuffnutz wrote:
bridgie boy wrote:
Tuffnutz wrote:Bridgie Boy, are you AKA Deserter?
Yes mate. Would actually like to change my name back to that now but my attempt was unsuccessful.
Email Bennie or another Moderator if you want to change your name. I'm sure one of them will help you out.

Terry, i think ESB is based in New York mate

ESB is infact based in California where its owner Mark Chekhanovskiy resides. Its Webmaster for many years was based in Germany, Eddy Proshinev (sp). I will not mention my opinions on those creatures as I was a member of Eastside for 2 years before the mass exodus from S'Out and both are total and utter faggots.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 27 Nov 2003, 19:47

[quote="Tuffnutz"]He can shut em down but we will always be one.

He can shut em down but we can build another.

The "TOSSER" will never defeat us :D

Britsh boxing fans are the best in the world and where theres one ESB/Seconds out poster, others will follow. 8)[/quote]

Nice words :wink:

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 28 Nov 2003, 08:17

thepocketrocket wrote:Im here!! With any luck Don Beech and DG will follow

Morning Pocket !..

Yes -I am here..!

Shame about ESB - very good forum...!

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 28 Nov 2003, 15:10

[quote="jamesmcdonnell"]I could possibly mention this on maxboxing, seeing as I write a column there, but it's a very tricky area. For instance....

1 Where is the proof it was Warren who got the site closed down, i would need some confirmation?
[/quote]

Since we have not been told anything informative, one can but hypothesise as to the real reasons for the close down of the fora in such a draconian fashion.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 28 Nov 2003, 15:51

Lickszz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I could possibly mention this on maxboxing, seeing as I write a column there, but it's a very tricky area. For instance....

1 Where is the proof it was Warren who got the site closed down, i would need some confirmation?

Since we have not been told anything informative, one can but hypothesise as to the real reasons for the close down of the fora in such a draconian fashion.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 28 Nov 2003, 15:55

This topic should be sent to the grave now

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 28 Nov 2003, 16:01

REAL_DEAL wrote:thanks for your Allegedly comments,

I've wiped them Chris. Someone will cut and paste them and they'll be everywhere. Not worth the hassle. SN's boys will be reading here beyond doubt.

dr_hook · Post by **dr_hook** » 29 Nov 2003, 07:25

Looks like ESB have tooken british boxing news section of the front page. You wont see the british forum back there again

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 29 Nov 2003, 11:43

One more British boxing forum refugee checking in.

There's a voice that keeps on calling me.
Down the road, that's where I'll always be.
Every stop I make, I make a new friend.
Can't stay for long, just turn around, and I'm gone again.
Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down.
Until tomorrow, I'll just keep movin' on.
So if you want to join me for a while,
Just grab your hat, we'll travel light.
That's hobo style.
Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down.
Until tomorrow, I'll just keep movin' on.

This sucks i don't really have anything to add to whats been said already. I come back from holiday to find
1) i didn't set the video properly for Manny Pac v MAB

2) My favourite boxing forum has been trashed. :(

Biff · Post by **Biff** » 02 Dec 2003, 09:14

Loftgroov wrote:Is the 'entire' Eastside site down? I'm having trouble getting through to it for some reason. (all other sites loading fine).

It's been down since Friday.THE ENTIRE site, I have posted this yesterday but no response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gensu3k1 · Post by **gensu3k1** » 04 Dec 2003, 01:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I could possibly mention this on maxboxing, seeing as I write a column there, but it's a very tricky area. For instance....

1 Where is the proof it was Warren who got the site closed down, i would need some confirmation?

2 I could get banned from all Warren shows, which in my capacity as a reporter could prove very difficult for me. It could also harm my ability to make contact with other people who work with Sports Network, and could in effect make a rod for my back which was be harmful in my attempts to make a career out of this, which is shitty, but a fact of life.

Does anyone here know for a fact that this is the reason the forum has been closed down? I haven't heard if confirmed anywhere yet.

James, in the case of secondsout.com (which was one of my favorite message boards of all, for its boxing and non-boxing material) it was very clear, although not explicitly so, that Warren was behind the closing of the message board. Forum operators talked about Warren initiating legal action against the website because of content on the message boards, and then they started censoring out the name "warren" from the board. IIRC, they also censored out the name "Frank!" Then all of a sudden the message board is completely gone. It's easy to put 2 and 2 together.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 04 Dec 2003, 02:16

Tuffnutz wrote:
bridgie boy wrote:
Tuffnutz wrote:Bridgie Boy, are you AKA Deserter?
Yes mate. Would actually like to change my name back to that now but my attempt was unsuccessful.
Email Bennie or another Moderator if you want to change your name. I'm sure one of them will help you out.

Well, I PM'ed Bennie over this about a week ago and haven't got a reply yet so it looks like my request isn't being granted. Hope it's just been an oversight but if you're reading this Bennie can you let me know by PM?

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 04 Dec 2003, 11:54

How can a promoter shut down a public discussion forum merely because some of its users make negative comments about him, his business practices, or his fighters? Is freedom of speech dead in Europe? I'd heard about the wacky libel laws in the UK - are they similar on the continent? Here in the U.S. the supposed victim of libel has to prove they were materially harmed by it, i.e. "I don't like your tone" or the like will get you laughed out of court. Of course anyone can sue anyone if they have deep enough pockets, but under U.S. libel laws threats of lawsuits from guys like Warren wouldn't be sufficiently credible to get most owners of websites to shut down the site or the relevant subforum just in order to avoid a suit. Frank could sue, the judge would laugh at him and say "next case, please", and Warren would risk getting nailed for bringing frivolous lawsuits.

Here's a nice summary of the state of U.S. law from findlaw.com:

Section 230(c)(1) of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, says "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as a publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." To date, courts have treated this language as a nearly complete bar against liability for users' defamatory postings.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 07 Dec 2003, 01:45

Eric the Viking wrote:How can a promoter shut down a public discussion forum merely because some of its users make negative comments about him, his business practices, or his fighters? Is freedom of speech dead in Europe? I'd heard about the wacky libel laws in the UK - are they similar on the continent? Here in the U.S. the supposed victim of libel has to prove they were materially harmed by it, i.e. "I don't like your tone" or the like will get you laughed out of court. Of course anyone can sue anyone if they have deep enough pockets, but under U.S. libel laws threats of lawsuits from guys like Warren wouldn't be sufficiently credible to get most owners of websites to shut down the site or the relevant subforum just in order to avoid a suit. Frank could sue, the judge would laugh at him and say "next case, please", and Warren would risk getting nailed for bringing frivolous lawsuits.

Here's a nice summary of the state of U.S. law from findlaw.com:

Section 230(c)(1) of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, says "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as a publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." To date, courts have treated this language as a nearly complete bar against liability for users' defamatory postings.

Thanks for the interesting post Erik. Without getting too technical, the onus in the UK is on the defendant to prove their allegations are true, rather than on the 'victim' to prove they're untrue, which makes things far trickier.