Joe Frazier Vs Jimmy Young

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2007, 19:59

Peak.....now this is one theoretical that will have granberry running for cover. Who to choose? I truly believe that Jimmy would find a way to outpoint the maniacal smokin' beast. But only in two out three. But it would not be as easy for Jimmy as his defeat of Foreman. Come to think of it Jimmy might not want to try it again even if he did squeak out the win on the first try. Who wants to take that kind of abuse twice in a lifetime even if you get the nod? And you have to ask the question would the "powers that be" be there to save Frazier if it was legitimately close and you could officially steal it from Jimmy?

I was sort of amazed that this was not discusse before but I did a seach and found zip on the subject.

I also suspect that I will be in the minority in my opinion on this. I'm not choosing Jimmy to be controversial either, I have a general history of siding somewhat with Matador's over Bull's. This would be a great fight and Frazier certainly would be the favorite. Anyone who says this would not be a good fight is not thinking this through IMHO.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2007, 20:58

Fair enough Decagon....So why was Ali able to be competitive with Frazier but Young would be destroyed? Was Young that much slower? Did he have less stamina? Was his defense far less? My guess is your going to say his footwork was just not up to what it would need to be.. Was his chin going to be the problem? No ability to take it to the body maybe?

You say this would be a mismatch so those are the first things that come to my mind to support that. I think you were one of the ones that said Frazier and Norton would be a total mismatch as well. I saw it as competitve but most saw it your way if I recall.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 02 Sep 2007, 21:14

I wouldn't be quite as harsh as decagon, but I would favor Frazier here. Frazier was relentless, cut off the ring better than almost any fighter I've ever seen, and that would wear on Young, or most any boxer for that matter in my opinion. Its really one of those scenarios where the saying "style makes fights" really becomes evident... Young beat Foreman, Foreman destroyed Frazier, but I would pick Frazier to beat Young.

Other than Ali, who had other dimensions besides boxing skill, and Lewis who might be too big, I can see Frazier beating most of the stylists in Heavyweight history... maybe even Holmes, though I think that could go either way.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 02 Sep 2007, 21:35

Dont forget, these two probably had a few wars in the gym.
Same town. Philly.
Might make a diff.
Lotta times guys get to know each others styles too well if they spar all the time. Sometimes makes for a boring fight.
I gotta go with Joe .
One of my favorite heavies.
Im biased though.
I think Young would give him some problems.
It aint a cakewalk.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2007, 21:49

You know....I just may have to think this over, some pretty compelling arguments going on here. Decagon I have been making theoreticals here for years and this is the most brutal feedback you have given me. Was it something you had for dinner?

Or do you perhaps think this was a particulary stupid scenario? You know if Frazier would have held on to the title I suppose this may have really happened in real time. Of course Frazier would have been well past his prime by that time so maybe Young would have only been raped 5 different ways. Or maybe even beaten the aging champ. Go ahead don't hold back...let us know how you really feel. I gotta tell ya being raped 15 ways would be particulary horrific to my way of thinking.

Decagon's words here may be the key...."Muhammad Ali was a fornicate of a lot better than Jimmy Young was" But that would be in direct conflict with what we have heard here on this very forum by another one of our leading experts.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2007, 22:44

I do everything "on purpose".

However a theoretical of any kind is not "retarded" it's just something to consider and ponder or ignore. Take right now for example I'm considering and pondering thumping you upside the head with a paper bag full of roofing nails. Just another potential theoretical to be considered.

OK...that was retarded make that a plastic bag.

Aha...I just discovered a Guinness in the fridge....that should lighten the mood considerably.

I shall return.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2007, 22:59

potentially

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 03 Sep 2007, 03:42

Im thinking a repeat of the Ellis-Frazier fight. If both are in
primes.

BUT lets say that Young fought Frazier in 1976, then
it would be in his favour a whole lot more. Id see Frazier
winning a ugly decision in that one.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Sep 2007, 14:04

Expug wrote:Dont forget, these two probably had a few wars in the gym.

Jimmy and Joe sparred a great deal. Frazier employed Jimmy for a while as a sparring partner (maybe for the second Ali fight? will have to check).

Frazier really laid it on Jimmy I read, but who knows when it comes to 'gym talk;.

To be continued when I have the energy.....

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 03 Sep 2007, 18:05

Decagon wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Fair enough Decagon....So why was Ali able to be competitive with Frazier but Young would be destroyed?
Styles make fights. Also, Muhammad Ali was a fuck of a lot better than Jimmy Young was, even if Young got the better of Ali when the latter was 100. This argument and this entire topic are stupid. Just stick to the Current section.

It's one thing to use a cliche but it's another thing all together to use it in an argument. But anyway I think Young would LEAVEL THE PLAYING FIELD with his speed but maybe Frazier WOULD MAKE A STATEMENT with a knockout. One thing for sure is Both MEN WOULD REALLY COME TO FIGHT, and in the end all you can do is TAKE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 04 Sep 2007, 00:12

..i kind of skimmed this one...i'll read it in detail later....but in the meantime....has anyone figured who buzzy really thinks woiuld win this one? I gave up when he said...i THINK.... that young would win but wouldn't even want a rematch because of the beating he'd take....so maybe frazier would have won two out of three but the two probably wouldn't take place. then he seems to be agreeing with decagon, or is he? it's hard to tell beause he starts hedging his bets, and decagon is crabby even when he's being agreed with.

maybe i shouldn't read it in detail later after all.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Sep 2007, 14:22

KOJOE90 wrote:
Expug wrote:Dont forget, these two probably had a few wars in the gym.
Jimmy and Joe sparred a great deal. Frazier employed Jimmy for a while as a sparring partner (maybe for the second Ali fight? will have to check).

Frazier really laid it on Jimmy I read, but who knows when it comes to 'gym talk;.

To be continued when I have the energy.....

Waiting to hear what these sparring sessions were like.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 05 Sep 2007, 14:32

Prime for prime Frazier wins by KO. Way too much pressure and activity for Young.

In 1976 Young wins a decision. And in between Foreman I and Manilla?

I say Frazier by decision but Young has his moments.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 07 Sep 2007, 13:04

I trained in Fraziers gym for several months back in '77 when Young was training for Foreman. Joe was close to end of his career then. He would come in to work out but I only saw him spar once and it wasn't with Young. Young had a big 270 lb sparring partner to be like Foreman and beat on him. Young practiced his version of rope-a-dope everyday with this guy, By doing what Ali did with Foreman, I knew Young would beat him. I told all of my friends back then to bet on Young. They thought I was crazy but the ones that listened made some money.

As for Frazier and Young in their primes, Joe was relentles and Young was slick. It would have been a good one but I think Joe wins 2 out of 3. Joe wins the 1st one.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:42

Decagon wrote:A prime Frazier would rape Jimmy Young 15 different ways. This is just a HORRIBLE stylistic matchup for Young, who was one of the most boring heavyweights of the 1970s.

Young is "boring" to those who are incompetent when it comes the basics of boxing.

Such as poor Hexagon.

Young and Frazier came up at the same time and sparred a lot with each other and both sparred a lot with Harold Johnson.

Johnson told me about the two, his impressions of them when they were younger and later.

I know better than to waste such valuable material on a site like this.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 10 Sep 2007, 15:14

granberry wrote:
Decagon wrote:A prime Frazier would rape Jimmy Young 15 different ways. This is just a HORRIBLE stylistic matchup for Young, who was one of the most boring heavyweights of the 1970s.
Young is "boring" to those who are incompetent when it comes the basics of boxing.

Such as poor Hexagon.

Young and Frazier came up at the same time and sparred a lot with each other and both sparred a lot with Harold Johnson.

Johnson told me about the two, his impressions of them when they were younger and later.

I know better than to waste such valuable material on a site like this.

Well....I was truly hoping you would chime in....I was going to read without prejudice....We both hold these fighters in high regard and I am one that sees this fight as truly competitive. I agree with your "valuable material" comment and want your take on this.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 10 Sep 2007, 15:22

granberry wrote:Johnson told me about the two, his impressions of them when they were younger and later..

Any chance of a bit more information on this subject? As a fan of both Young & Frazier I for one would be interested.

Also, I am right in thinking that Frazier employed Young as a sparring partner for one of the Ali fights? I think it was the second one but cannot locate where I read this at the moment and admit am 'hazy' on this point.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 10 Sep 2007, 17:03

KOJOE90 wrote:
Also, I am right in thinking that Frazier employed Young as a sparring partner for one of the Ali fights? I think it was the second one but cannot locate where I read this at the moment and admit am 'hazy' on this point.

Young worked as a sparring partner for Ali, Quarry, Shavers, Norton.

and others. Norton and Ali couldn't touch him in sparring. Ali fired him.

I never heard him mention Frazier.

But they sparred a lot when they were young (just starting out).

Young said Quarry had good ability and equipment and would not allow anyone to denigrate Quarry.

Young worked out at Frazier's gym during Young's good period (and later).

I got the impression Frazier was not his closest friend.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 11 Sep 2007, 01:35

..decagon...those "faults" you find with young to me make for a LOT of drama....especially in heavyweights. for a guy without a big knockout punch to consistently go against big punchers (foreman and shaver, as two examples) and use his skills to win makes for suspense .....how long can this guy evade those bombs and still score points himself? can he go all the way and even win the decision?

i like the power guys too, but i've always been more interested in the clever guys who blend defense with offense, even when they are outgunned.

while i rank him just below the very top light heavies of his era (moore , charles, bivins,etc) i use to love to watch joey maxim outsmart big punchers....often heavweights, with his superb boxing science. espnc has his fight against the hard punching tough southpaw irish bob murphy. for drama catch that one if it turns up again.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Sep 2007, 01:58

You have to have some knowledge of the noble art to appreciate Jimmy Young.

That's why Decagon gets no enjoyment from watching Jimmy Young.

Don't forget, Decagon proudly stated just the other day that Michael Grant is the sort of heavyweight he likes to watch.

Michael Grant?

Do I need to say more?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 11 Sep 2007, 02:06

Decagon wrote:I went to college with Michael Grant. I knew him before he started boxing.

Hahahahahahaha, sure, Zack.

Strange you didn't mention that when you proudly announced how you love watching, what was the term now, mmmmmmm, oh yeah "shitty heavyweights like Michael Grant".

Try and keep your stories staight, mate. You have plenty of time for these works of fiction. It's not like you have a job to take you away from the computer.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 11 Sep 2007, 02:10

Who is the only fighter to beat Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Patterson?