Kostya Tszyu

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 08 Sep 2007, 23:51

Decagon wrote:
theone wrote:Many great fighters fought alot early in their careers and lost to less than stellar opposition. Armstrong, Monzon, Saddler,among others. These losses get dismissed, (rightfully so)because these fighters weren't considered at their best yet.
Tszyu was in his prime when he lost to Phillips. Armstrong only had a few fights when he lost those first fights.

Tszyu had a lot of shit going on leading into this fight, He was taken to court and was in court for weeks leading up to the fight and had to train at night instead of his usual training.
Its still no excuse he should have KOd Phillips and i dont think Phillips would have lasted more than 5-6 rounds in any other fight Tszyu had.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 09 Sep 2007, 00:36

Tszyu had a lot of shit going on leading into this fight, He was taken to court and was in court for weeks leading up to the fight and had to train at night instead of his usual training.
Its still no excuse he should have KOd Phillips and i dont think Phillips would have lasted more than 5-6 rounds in any other fight Tszyu had.

Agreed. Kostya may have been in his prime years, but he fought at about 70% of his ability that night. Prime for prime, I think Kostya beats any fighter at 140lb.

theone · Post by **theone** » 09 Sep 2007, 01:59

Tszyu didnt have the speed or movement to trouble prime Chavez. It would be very similar to Chavez's battering of Rosario. Also, at his best Meldrick Taylor would have flustered the hell out of Tszyu and won a clear decision.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 09 Sep 2007, 06:24

theone wrote:Tszyu didnt have the speed or movement to trouble prime Chavez. It would be very similar to Chavez's battering of Rosario. Also, at his best Meldrick Taylor would have flustered the hell out of Tszyu and won a clear decision.

I disagree, Chavez may have beaten Tszyu but Tszyu never had a problem against fast fighters, Zabs handspeed was a squick as Taylor and so was Mitchells. Tszyu always had trouble with guys who fougft on the inside and took the fight to him and that was his 2 losses . He never had trouble with counterpunchers or slick fast fighters.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 09 Sep 2007, 07:01

ben k wrote:
theone wrote:Tszyu didnt have the speed or movement to trouble prime Chavez. It would be very similar to Chavez's battering of Rosario. Also, at his best Meldrick Taylor would have flustered the hell out of Tszyu and won a clear decision.
I disagree, Chavez may have beaten Tszyu but Tszyu never had a problem against fast fighters, Zabs handspeed was a squick as Taylor and so was Mitchells. Tszyu always had trouble with guys who fougft on the inside and took the fight to him and that was his 2 losses . He never had trouble with counterpunchers or slick fast fighters.

Taylor was not a counter-puncher or a slick fighter at all when faced with a challenge, if Tszyu hit him, then Taylor would be damned if he was gonna try to move or run, because he was a Philadelphia fighter. Knowing how hard Kostya hits, Taylor would've gotten cracked, gotten pissed, and unloaded a lighting-fast 8 or 10 punch combination on Tszyu immediately. Taylor had absolutely no problem fighting on the inside and he actually reveled in brawling with his opponents, he loved it. I'm sure he would've likely beaten Tszyu in this way prime-4-prime. Not all fast-handed fighters are slick-stylists and Meldrick Taylor is absolute proof of that fact.

TamTam · Post by **TamTam** » 09 Sep 2007, 07:01

Chavez fought 95 bums? Please. You slight my country just by posting that rubbish.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 09 Sep 2007, 08:33

TamTam wrote:Chavez fought 95 bums? Please. You slight my country just by posting that rubbish.

Look at his record

theone · Post by **theone** » 09 Sep 2007, 09:54

I disagree, Chavez may have beaten Tszyu but Tszyu never had a problem against fast fighters, Zabs handspeed was a squick as Taylor and so was Mitchells. Tszyu always had trouble with guys who fougft on the inside and took the fight to him and that was his 2 losses . He never had trouble with counterpunchers or slick fast fighters.

Taylor was stronger, tougher and had a much better chin than Zab. Taylor also threw alot more punches. With his stance, chin and short heavy punches Chavez was able to land counters sometimes simultaneously as he got hit.
Taylor would have Tzsyu leaning back, as he often did when hit with combinations, all night long.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 10 Sep 2007, 11:41

ben k wrote:
TamTam wrote:Chavez fought 95 bums? Please. You slight my country just by posting that rubbish.
Look at his record

To a certain point I agree with Ben K. The sheer number of wins a fighter had isn't really that important. A fighter shouldn't be given credit for beating bums.

However, a fighter should be judged by the best opposition that he beat, not the worst.
In the case of Chavez, he simply had a lot of fights; against great opponents, bad opponents, and everything in between. Some of his fights were against bums. Just don't factor them in when rating him. Ignore them.

Look at all of the top fighters that he beat. Decagon mentioned several. He also beat Jose Luis Ramirez,Lonnie Smith,Angel Hernandez,Tony Lopez, and Ivan Robinson. Several others weren't this good but certainly weren't bums.
It's silly to call Chavez a "protected" fighter.