Boxing news get it right while Brendan gets it wrong !

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Sep 2007, 21:19

I am bias in this one, but one trainer that gets constantly overlooked in general is Ronnie Rush, not saying he is in the Ingle, Lawless, Hughes etc league - but 2 world champions built from scratch from the number of fighters going to his gym is a tremendous achievement. Like Ingle, lawless, etc - his two "star" fighters were not blessed with the greatest natural talent, especially Jones.

What a gentleman aswell, a class act... who almost seems to have been forgotton about. The high profile of Joe Calzaghe in the early years of a champion meant that alot of kids were inspired to go to the then essentially unproven Enzo Calzaghe gym. Now of course, Enzo rightfully gets that attention. Even in Robinson's hey day, before Joe Calzaghe - many times the Welsh media would get it wrong and say Robinson is trained by "Dai Gardiner, and assisted by Ronnie Rush".... meaning that the young amateurs inspired to go to Cwmcarn with Dai.

Ronnie never seemed to get the "rub of the green" or the praise he deserved, not even in his own country.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 09 Sep 2007, 21:25

you never get yanks comming over to learn from our trainers however we have a few go the other way, anyone any idea why? Also Adam Booth seems to be doing okay.

Have they stoped putting trainers on boxrec profiles?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Sep 2007, 02:53

bennie wrote:
Albert wrote:So what if Bendan has got it wrong. The greatest trainer this country has has produced.
That's a big, big, big call. Just a couple of decades ago, Bobby Neill moulded the hot-headed, cut-prone Alan Minter and the sloppy, moody Lloyd Honeyghan into cool, sharp operators.
Into undisputed world champions.

Uour forgetting the longevity of 'Albert's' afiliation with the sport Bennie.

He spouts endlessly about Brendan, who I agree is a terrific trainer, mentor and social force for the kids in Sheffield.

Spud, just come out from under the rock FFS.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 10 Sep 2007, 03:55

All the good trainers in history have said that the fighters make the trainer
Angelo Dundee has said that and Emmanuel Steward has also said that.

It is said that in the Kronk, that the trainers under Steward would get all the novices to knock the crap out of each other and when there was one left, the trainer would teach him to box. If they were any good then they would go under Stewards wing.

A good trainer is a good psychologist - it is not about teaching a man who to throw a left jab but getting getting the fighter to believe in himself.

I have seen some shocking trainers - I knew of one who would call his fighters 'bottlers' if they couldn't/wouldn't take a fight and overmatch them
as well as making them go into an unrealistic weight division for their body size.

Nothing to do with how good they are on the pads or what they knew because they knew plenty.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 10 Sep 2007, 04:01

Spud, just come out from under the rock FFS.

Good article about Bruce Woodcock by the way. I'll show it my dad later!

The Blade · Post by **The Blade** » 10 Sep 2007, 05:36

KOJOE90 wrote:
bennie wrote:
MIKEE wrote: about what? Its still not a fan of the 'belts', they usually get a sardonic comment at least once a week
A sardonic comment! Harry Mullan is spinning in his grave.
Didn't Harry Mullan and Mikey Duff have a big fall out in the early eights because Harry had critisized the quality of some of Duffs bills? Resulting in Boxing News staff being banned from Duff promotions for a while?

Harry fell out with every prmoter. He saw through the bull

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 10 Sep 2007, 05:39

bennie wrote:Incidentally Spud, like Ingle, I'm no fan of the modern Boxing News. Claude Abrams has had a child and been sucked into Gordon Brown's corporate Britain and just wants a 'safe' mag these days: no hard news, nothing racy. Tony Connolly has walked.
The 'trade' mag just ain't the same anymore.

Tony's left has he? Have to say I agree though, BN has been neutered for a long time now, ever since Harry departed really.

Too scared to call even the Enzo/Gunn scandal for what it was, had to be the last straw. All for a ringside seat......

I haven't been buying it for around 3 years now, whereas 10 years ago I'd travel miles to pick up a copy on Friday.

Also there's no way that Albert is Spud - he's at least got half a brain and says that Hatton is gonna get hammered by Floyd - not something Spud would ever say while he's getting all those free tickets, don't you think?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Sep 2007, 06:25

MW,
It is Spud, unquestionably, and to be fair to him he's maintained throughtout that Hatton would lose to Mayweather.

Carlos,
Thanks.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Sep 2007, 07:26

bennie wrote:
Albert wrote:
bennie wrote: That's a big, big, big call. Just a couple of decades ago, Bobby Neill moulded the hot-headed, cut-prone Alan Minter and the sloppy, moody Lloyd Honeyghan into cool, sharp operators.
Into undisputed world champions.
Ingle has produced domestic and world champions over a number of generations and over a huge amount of years. I must confess I do not know anything about Bobby Neill but surely it does not compare with Ingle.

Someone of your boxing knowledge could write down on this thread the huge amount of champions Brendan Ingle has produced.

There are a lot of trainers who are very good in their own right who have a huge amount to give to the sport, but my argument is other than perhaps Brian Hughes who else can compete with Ingle.
Terry Lawless produced countless more champs than Ingle. Countless.

Lawless had a massive advantage though in securing the best talent of his day, due to his affiliation with Duff etc. He had a cast iron deal with the board of control and the BBC, and was therefore able to sign up all the oustanding amateur fighters of the day.

Those boys had it sewn up good and proper. There was that ridiculous rule about there not being any major promotions within 30 days of eachother which meant nobody else could get a look in to get their fighters televised.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 10 Sep 2007, 19:15

The Wincobank have this problem, they come across as sore winners, this attitude grates on the fan aswell as the man in the street..compare that to the positivity of Graham and Hatton...

This is in no way a reflection on the abilities of the camp plus the work they do in the community..

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:33

I think Ingle was miffed because, despite getting the prediction spot-on, the preview was somewhat critical of Witter - he's already peaked, has never truly delivered in elite class, etc.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 11 Sep 2007, 20:45

I think Claude is sensible enough not to bite the hand that feeds him, however I still think BN is excellent and I still buy it every week.

His predictions are often spot on which he has done again with the Witter fight.

I also remember when Audley Fanfare was on the BBC he was the only on out of a number of experts who predicted that he wouldn't be world champion.

Claude may not be the most colourful of characters, which may be reflected in his writing, more of the boxing anorak, which is suitable for a trade paper, and it is a style I appreciate.

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 12 Sep 2007, 03:54

As I read the fight preview in BN I got the impression that BN were leading up to reckoning Harris would win...."Witter's toughest fight, Witter's on the slide, ertc etc"....and was mildly surprised when I got to the end and found - with a sudden direction change - they were calling Witter by stoppage...and around Round 7!

So maybe Brendan got fed up reading the article and gave up b4 he reached the end.

J

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Sep 2007, 07:31

Brendan had probably covered it in spittle from screaming abuse at it by that point, obscuring the final paragraph, before proceeding to rip it into shreds and then stompt it into the floor.

Great great trainer is Brendan, but he's definetly a rather highly strung invidivual.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 17 Sep 2007, 19:31

Apparently team ingle emailed an appoligy to BN saying he ment another magazine they seemed to take it quite well but for the headline of Abram's intro being actualy we got it spot on

1southpaw · Post by **1southpaw** » 17 Sep 2007, 21:45

Carlos-Wigan wrote:All the good trainers in history have said that the fighters make the trainer
Angelo Dundee has said that and Emmanuel Steward has also said that.

It is said that in the Kronk, that the trainers under Steward would get all the novices to knock the crap out of each other and when there was one left, the trainer would teach him to box. If they were any good then they would go under Stewards wing.

A good trainer is a good psychologist - it is not about teaching a man who to throw a left jab but getting getting the fighter to believe in himself.

I have seen some shocking trainers - I knew of one who would call his fighters 'bottlers' if they couldn't/wouldn't take a fight and overmatch them
as well as making them go into an unrealistic weight division for their body size.

Nothing to do with how good they are on the pads or what they knew because they knew plenty.

true ive helped a couple of fighters to get ready for fights (unlicenced) and i wouldn,t say they were the best but if you can get them to believe in there self and keep it simple you would be suprised at what they can do in the ring and that is what brenden is good at getting you to believe in your self

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 20 Sep 2007, 11:38

remember Mr Ingle coming to Sunderland once with Junior Witter as a guest. Witter never said anything but Ingle went on and on and on for AGES. By the time the two headline events began you could hardly see in front of your face for all the cigs/cigar smoke while he'd been rambling on about Naseem Hamed doing him out of "his share" - seemed to be making the maths up on the spot and contradicting himself. I thought it was shocking to expect the athletes to go at it in all that smoke in this day and age - by the time the boxers got in the ring their heads would have only been about a yard from the ceiling, very small and smoky. Not helped by Mr Ingle's ramblings.
Saw fit to take an unwarranted sideswipe at Darlington's Oscar Hall (Michael Hall beat Junior 3 times in the amateurs) by pronouncing " who's heard of Oscar Hall" - as though to emphasize Witter's progress by comparing his recognition to Michael's (Hall's) who at the time had only lost about once, if at all in 23 fights or so.
I'd definitely turn up late if I thought this bloke was going to be there speaking again.
On a sidenote - the Ingle (soory don't know the first name) who jumped in the ring before the ref stopped the Witter/ Harris fight was bang out of order and the ref was weak for not kicking him straight out. What if the ref had started to administer a count and Harris had got up at 9....sure unlikely but always possible. The guy wants a ban in my opinion, likewise the ref. I won't deny however they do know a thing or two when it comes to training boxers don't get me wrong, and I expect they are good servants to their community also.
Sorry, what was the question?

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 21 Sep 2007, 04:54

Michael Hall, by the way, was a lovely boxer who underachieved.

He stepped in late to box Witter once as a pro and absolutely cracked him with his best shot. Unfortunately, as most of you are now aware having seen him get whacked by Harris, Junior has a great chin. Hall's shot just bounced off and then Junior stopped his stablemate.

Hall was also completely outboxing Lenny Daws before he totally imploded and had nothing left.

Shame, he could have gone much further.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 21 Sep 2007, 07:01

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:remember Mr Ingle coming to Sunderland once with Junior Witter as a guest. Witter never said anything but Ingle went on and on and on for AGES. By the time the two headline events began you could hardly see in front of your face for all the cigs/cigar smoke while he'd been rambling on about Naseem Hamed doing him out of "his share" - seemed to be making the maths up on the spot and contradicting himself. I thought it was shocking to expect the athletes to go at it in all that smoke in this day and age - by the time the boxers got in the ring their heads would have only been about a yard from the ceiling, very small and smoky. Not helped by Mr Ingle's ramblings.
Saw fit to take an unwarranted sideswipe at Darlington's Oscar Hall (Michael Hall beat Junior 3 times in the amateurs) by pronouncing " who's heard of Oscar Hall" - as though to emphasize Witter's progress by comparing his recognition to Michael's (Hall's) who at the time had only lost about once, if at all in 23 fights or so.
I'd definitely turn up late if I thought this bloke was going to be there speaking again.
On a sidenote - the Ingle (soory don't know the first name) who jumped in the ring before the ref stopped the Witter/ Harris fight was bang out of order and the ref was weak for not kicking him straight out. What if the ref had started to administer a count and Harris had got up at 9....sure unlikely but always possible. The guy wants a ban in my opinion, likewise the ref. I won't deny however they do know a thing or two when it comes to training boxers don't get me wrong, and I expect they are good servants to their community also.
Sorry, what was the question?

People used to smoke in boxing matches all the time. Domanic Ingle was daft to jump in but it would have been a stupid decision in the extream to disqualify Witter for that.

Hey at least he didn't try to steal the belt and run around the ring with it a la Ruiz's trainer vs Valeiuv

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 21 Sep 2007, 07:41

josh fg wrote:
NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:remember Mr Ingle coming to Sunderland once with Junior Witter as a guest. Witter never said anything but Ingle went on and on and on for AGES. By the time the two headline events began you could hardly see in front of your face for all the cigs/cigar smoke while he'd been rambling on about Naseem Hamed doing him out of "his share" - seemed to be making the maths up on the spot and contradicting himself. I thought it was shocking to expect the athletes to go at it in all that smoke in this day and age - by the time the boxers got in the ring their heads would have only been about a yard from the ceiling, very small and smoky. Not helped by Mr Ingle's ramblings.
Saw fit to take an unwarranted sideswipe at Darlington's Oscar Hall (Michael Hall beat Junior 3 times in the amateurs) by pronouncing " who's heard of Oscar Hall" - as though to emphasize Witter's progress by comparing his recognition to Michael's (Hall's) who at the time had only lost about once, if at all in 23 fights or so.
I'd definitely turn up late if I thought this bloke was going to be there speaking again.
On a sidenote - the Ingle (soory don't know the first name) who jumped in the ring before the ref stopped the Witter/ Harris fight was bang out of order and the ref was weak for not kicking him straight out. What if the ref had started to administer a count and Harris had got up at 9....sure unlikely but always possible. The guy wants a ban in my opinion, likewise the ref. I won't deny however they do know a thing or two when it comes to training boxers don't get me wrong, and I expect they are good servants to their community also.
Sorry, what was the question?
People used to smoke in boxing matches all the time. Domanic Ingle was daft to jump in but it would have been a stupid decision in the extream to disqualify Witter for that.

Hey at least he didn't try to steal the belt and run around the ring with it a la Ruiz's trainer vs Valeiuv

Good point, though - what if Harris had gotten up by eight or nine?

Sure, nothing would have changed the outcome of this fight, but it's something that should be addressed in case of further, more complicated, instances.

Also, which mag was it that Brendan read, then? BM also picked Witter to win, and I doubt the US mags would have given it a proper preview.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 21 Sep 2007, 07:48

i must have missed that one - sounds hilarious.
It would have obviously been completely wrong to throw out Witter - i did not mean that - and I am aware that when the corner interferes it is the boxer who gets chucked out (i.e. the whole team - bit like that lad against Hatton a few yrs ago when his Dad decided to make a comeback halfway through the fight) - but it was still out of order not to mention incredibly stupid, what Ingle did - Harris might have surprised everyone and got up.
As regards the smoking, I take your point, but it's better that fighters won't have to put up with that anymore. I mean look at Roy Castle, that man never even smoked I don't think, just played in clubs and passive smoking did for him.......just my opinion.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 21 Sep 2007, 09:16

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Michael Hall, by the way, was a lovely boxer who underachieved.

He stepped in late to box Witter once as a pro and absolutely cracked him with his best shot. Unfortunately, as most of you are now aware having seen him get whacked by Harris, Junior has a great chin. Hall's shot just bounced off and then Junior stopped his stablemate.

Hall was also completely outboxing Lenny Daws before he totally imploded and had nothing left.

Shame, he could have gone much further.

Has he called it a day officially? I agree, a big shame - good talent and he was dominating vs Daws. I would have liked to have seen a rematch.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 21 Sep 2007, 14:22

I believe so, from what I can glean Michael came along at a time when Darlington had fewer pro's than now. I think he would have benefitted from going elsewhere to a big gym, he would have got into title contention much sooner I think.
Mind you I believe he does ok in the fire service so it's not as though boxing was his bread and butter.
Great operator though, had Daws all over the show, and I believe Daws previously had a very good win over another north east boxer Nigel Wright - but the gaps between big fights probably took some of the stamina/ hunger away. IMO.

BigPaul485 · Post by **BigPaul485** » 23 Sep 2007, 13:28

http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/1146

http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/1151

I think this guy writes for Boxing Monthly.Maybe it was this article Ingle was ranting on about.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 23 Sep 2007, 13:36

BigPaul485 wrote:http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/1146

http://www.fightwriter.com/?q=node/1151

I think this guy writes for Boxing Monthly.Maybe it was this article Ingle was ranting on about.

Can't imagine that Brendan reads Graham Houston's online content.