VITALI KLITSCHKO HAS SURGERY ON HIS BACK

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 10 Sep 2007, 06:01

Pulled out of Mcline fight with injury and has had surgery on his troubled back. No fights in two years, 36 and now having to recover from surgery on his back. He just won't be the same, surely.

Bet a certain Nigerian fighter who's surname rhymes with 'big eater' and his team won't be sending him a get-well-soon card after the trouble they've had trying to get their man a title shot after 'champion emeritus' Vitali decided he'd make a comeback.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 06:05

I think these continued pull outs/injurys have a little bit to do with a few problems with performancing enhancing drugs. First his 'knee' and now his 'back'. The fact he looked ot have lost about 30-40lbs of muscle after he retired looked very suspicous.

I feel sorry for McCline, whos been royally screwed over

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:07

Knew it was all talk this comeback, just had big inclins.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:07

vitali was not the one who looked 'geared up' anyway, i feel his phtsique was natural, 6 ft 8 and a 32 inch waist, shit, same waist as me but nearly a foot taller !!!!

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:14

Has'nt he got previous with the gear though?

ALso, have you seen him during his kick boxing days?
He was barely 200lbs!!!!
Looked like a rake!

Still, I guess he was a young man and just may have filled out

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:16

Yeah, my ass he just filled out. He was 205 as a kick boxer, and like you say, skinny as a rake. Just two months after he 'retired' he looked so skinny it was unbelievable.

He did indeed have previous with steroids as an amateur.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, my ass he just filled out. He was 205 as a kick boxer, and like you say, skinny as a rake. Just two months after he 'retired' he looked so skinny it was unbelievable.

He did indeed have previous with steroids as an amateur.

Vitali was supposed to goto the olympics instead of Wlad but got a steroid suspension. Its pretty easy to pass a drugs test the day of a fight, you just have to cycle down when the fight comes up or use HGH (which you can't be caught with).

Vitali does show the odd tell tale signs. The massive weight loss after he stopped boxing is the biggest, usually a less active fighter would gain allot of weight. So many injurys go hand in hand with steroid use. Either that or could there be other drug related health problems?

Its not impossible to add 40lbs of muscle while staying fit in 10 years but it is very hard. Vitali seems to have added 30lbs of solid muscle in 6years. Muhammed Ali and Vitali were the same weight around the age of 20.

Vitali shouldn't be singled out for Sports Drug Abuse. Wlad, Rahman, Peter, Ibeauchi, Holyfield, Maskeev, Toney, McCline, Briggs, are all obvious steroid users. Wlads gassing against Brewster may have been from a performance enhancer or lack of a performance enhancer in his system.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:35

Regardless, he's always been injury prone and if he recorvers from this, he'll have something else wrong with him. Vitali isn't coming back. And if he can, he isn't winning any titles.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:41

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, my ass he just filled out. He was 205 as a kick boxer, and like you say, skinny as a rake. Just two months after he 'retired' he looked so skinny it was unbelievable.

He did indeed have previous with steroids as an amateur.
Vitali was supposed to goto the olympics instead of Wlad but got a steroid suspension. Its pretty easy to pass a drugs test the day of a fight, you just have to cycle down when the fight comes up or use HGH (which you can't be caught with).

Vitali does show the odd tell tale signs. The massive weight loss after he stopped boxing is the biggest, usually a less active fighter would gain allot of weight. So many injurys go hand in hand with steroid use. Either that or could there be other drug related health problems?

Its not impossible to add 40lbs of muscle while staying fit in 10 years but it is very hard. Vitali seems to have added 30lbs of solid muscle in 6years. Muhammed Ali and Vitali were the same weight around the age of 20.

Vitali shouldn't be singled out for Sports Drug Abuse. Wlad, Rahman, Peter, Ibeauchi, Holyfield, Maskeev, Toney, McCline, Briggs, are all obvious steroid users. Wlads gassing against Brewster may have been from a performance enhancer or lack of a performance enhancer in his system.

Interesting that you point out those names.
Could you give reasons behind each name?

Genuinely interested in knowing what you think, and I'am by no means an expert on the subject!

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 08:58

yiddo14 wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, my ass he just filled out. He was 205 as a kick boxer, and like you say, skinny as a rake. Just two months after he 'retired' he looked so skinny it was unbelievable.

He did indeed have previous with steroids as an amateur.
Vitali was supposed to goto the olympics instead of Wlad but got a steroid suspension. Its pretty easy to pass a drugs test the day of a fight, you just have to cycle down when the fight comes up or use HGH (which you can't be caught with).

Vitali does show the odd tell tale signs. The massive weight loss after he stopped boxing is the biggest, usually a less active fighter would gain allot of weight. So many injurys go hand in hand with steroid use. Either that or could there be other drug related health problems?

Its not impossible to add 40lbs of muscle while staying fit in 10 years but it is very hard. Vitali seems to have added 30lbs of solid muscle in 6years. Muhammed Ali and Vitali were the same weight around the age of 20.

Vitali shouldn't be singled out for Sports Drug Abuse. Wlad, Rahman, Peter, Ibeauchi, Holyfield, Maskeev, Toney, McCline, Briggs, are all obvious steroid users. Wlads gassing against Brewster may have been from a performance enhancer or lack of a performance enhancer in his system.
Interesting that you point out those names.
Could you give reasons behind each name?

Genuinely interested in knowing what you think, and I'am by no means an expert on the subject!

Briggs/McCline - just too MASSIVE with steroid looking buldging muscles that look full of water rather than being hard muscles, bodybuilders couldn't get this big 30 years ago, yet boxers today can? Briggs has put on around 70lbs of muscle in the past 15years

Holyfield/Tyson - both worked with reknowned steroid gurus

Golota - spots on his back, increased hormone levels means more spots.

Wlad - look at his performance against Brewster. his shortness of breath and collapse could have been an overdose of stimulants (some of which that may technically be legal). He also put on 21lbs of muscle in less just 19 months after his Purity loss - which is possible but suspect for a boxer who works on stamina

Toney - failed 2 steroid tests because he hasn't got a clue what hes doing. Toney also suffered from 'bitch tits' and snapped a tendon in his achiles. Tendons can become weaker in comparison to the muscles when using some steroids

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:42

Interesting to read such a damning critique on the state of drug abuse amongst Heavyweights by someone as knowledgable as you clearly are.

As a matter of interest do you think fighters in lower classes use steroids too or is just the Heavyweights?

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 10 Sep 2007, 11:17

Cheers for that.

Pretty simple when you know what your looking for I guess.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 11:19

Goz wrote:Interesting to read such a damning critique on the state of drug abuse amongst Heavyweights by someone as knowledgable as you clearly are.

As a matter of interest do you think fighters in lower classes use steroids too or is just the Heavyweights?

Its hard to tell with lower weight fighters because its quite possible to have an amazing smaller physique naturally. As a boxer you also want to fit into the lowest weight class you can without. I'd say lower weight boxers using diuretics/stimulants more than steroids. But low androgenic steroids will definately make a fighter be more explosive in their weight class.

The obvious cases are the 1s who have tested positive like Vargas/RJJ and the Mosley balco connection.

Some fighters look a little unnatural to me like Urango and Pacquaio but they could be genetic freaks of nature. Steroids are very easy to get hold of in the Philipines and Latin America though.

Most fighters make good use of performance enhancing supplements anyway and those are legal but can allot to a performance.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 10 Sep 2007, 11:37

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: The fact he looked ot have lost about 30-40lbs of muscle after he retired looked very suspicous.

I thought it looked suss

(suss is a type of steroid)

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 10 Sep 2007, 12:55

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Vitali was supposed to goto the olympics instead of Wlad but got a steroid suspension. Its pretty easy to pass a drugs test the day of a fight, you just have to cycle down when the fight comes up or use HGH (which you can't be caught with).

Vitali does show the odd tell tale signs. The massive weight loss after he stopped boxing is the biggest, usually a less active fighter would gain allot of weight. So many injurys go hand in hand with steroid use. Either that or could there be other drug related health problems?

Its not impossible to add 40lbs of muscle while staying fit in 10 years but it is very hard. Vitali seems to have added 30lbs of solid muscle in 6years. Muhammed Ali and Vitali were the same weight around the age of 20.

Vitali shouldn't be singled out for Sports Drug Abuse. Wlad, Rahman, Peter, Ibeauchi, Holyfield, Maskeev, Toney, McCline, Briggs, are all obvious steroid users. Wlads gassing against Brewster may have been from a performance enhancer or lack of a performance enhancer in his system.
Interesting that you point out those names.
Could you give reasons behind each name?

Genuinely interested in knowing what you think, and I'am by no means an expert on the subject!
Briggs/McCline - just too MASSIVE with steroid looking buldging muscles that look full of water rather than being hard muscles, bodybuilders couldn't get this big 30 years ago, yet boxers today can? Briggs has put on around 70lbs of muscle in the past 15years

Holyfield/Tyson - both worked with reknowned steroid gurus

Golota - spots on his back, increased hormone levels means more spots.

Wlad - look at his performance against Brewster. his shortness of breath and collapse could have been an overdose of stimulants (some of which that may technically be legal). He also put on 21lbs of muscle in less just 19 months after his Purity loss - which is possible but suspect for a boxer who works on stamina

Toney - failed 2 steroid tests because he hasn't got a clue what hes doing. Toney also suffered from 'bitch tits' and snapped a tendon in his achiles. Tendons can become weaker in comparison to the muscles when using some steroids

Could you apply he same reasoning to Lennox Lewis.

He weighed 16stone against Levi Billups and 18stone 4 against Vitali.

Thats a gain of 32 lbs.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 10 Sep 2007, 13:04

That was a span of over 11 years though and Lennox was his highest ever weight against Vit.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 13:12

KO Artist wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
yiddo14 wrote: Interesting that you point out those names.
Could you give reasons behind each name?

Genuinely interested in knowing what you think, and I'am by no means an expert on the subject!
Briggs/McCline - just too MASSIVE with steroid looking buldging muscles that look full of water rather than being hard muscles, bodybuilders couldn't get this big 30 years ago, yet boxers today can? Briggs has put on around 70lbs of muscle in the past 15years

Holyfield/Tyson - both worked with reknowned steroid gurus

Golota - spots on his back, increased hormone levels means more spots.

Wlad - look at his performance against Brewster. his shortness of breath and collapse could have been an overdose of stimulants (some of which that may technically be legal). He also put on 21lbs of muscle in less just 19 months after his Purity loss - which is possible but suspect for a boxer who works on stamina

Toney - failed 2 steroid tests because he hasn't got a clue what hes doing. Toney also suffered from 'bitch tits' and snapped a tendon in his achiles. Tendons can become weaker in comparison to the muscles when using some steroids
Could you apply he same reasoning to Lennox Lewis.

He weighed 16stone against Levi Billups and 18stone 4 against Vitali.

Thats a gain of 32 lbs.

Over 14 years Lennox added 24lbs from his first till his last fight. 10lbs of that was probably bodyfat though against Vitali. His largest increase in bodyweight was 6months after his McCall defeat he added 10lbs of bodymass under the guidance of Manny Steward.

May have used Steroids? Possibly, I wouldn't rule it out, but its not glaringly obvious either like Shannon Briggs is

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:36

Vitali was badly overrated anyway.

He fought his heart out Vs Lewis but he was lucky Lewis was untrained. He would of been outclassed by a fully prepared Lewis.

He would of been stopped anyway If the doctor didn't save him as he would of tired faster due to all the blood loss. His optic nerves were nearly exposed too I hear.

The Klits are both overrated though anyway, there strong and use their heights well but limited In skill. Wlad has become the new Ruiz and lacks Inside fighting.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, my ass he just filled out. He was 205 as a kick boxer, and like you say, skinny as a rake. Just two months after he 'retired' he looked so skinny it was unbelievable.

He did indeed have previous with steroids as an amateur.

I remember that skinny picture of Vitali. It had Rahman and Toney In It too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:47

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
KO Artist wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Briggs/McCline - just too MASSIVE with steroid looking buldging muscles that look full of water rather than being hard muscles, bodybuilders couldn't get this big 30 years ago, yet boxers today can? Briggs has put on around 70lbs of muscle in the past 15years

Holyfield/Tyson - both worked with reknowned steroid gurus

Golota - spots on his back, increased hormone levels means more spots.

Wlad - look at his performance against Brewster. his shortness of breath and collapse could have been an overdose of stimulants (some of which that may technically be legal). He also put on 21lbs of muscle in less just 19 months after his Purity loss - which is possible but suspect for a boxer who works on stamina

Toney - failed 2 steroid tests because he hasn't got a clue what hes doing. Toney also suffered from 'bitch tits' and snapped a tendon in his achiles. Tendons can become weaker in comparison to the muscles when using some steroids
Could you apply he same reasoning to Lennox Lewis.

He weighed 16stone against Levi Billups and 18stone 4 against Vitali.

Thats a gain of 32 lbs.
Over 14 years Lennox added 24lbs from his first till his last fight. 10lbs of that was probably bodyfat though against Vitali. His largest increase in bodyweight was 6months after his McCall defeat he added 10lbs of bodymass under the guidance of Manny Steward.

May have used Steroids? Possibly, I wouldn't rule it out, but its not glaringly obvious either like Shannon Briggs is

Lewis'weight gain in pretty consistent with a fighter going from the age of 25-35. Most heavyweights are going to be mesomorphs anyway, who put on weight at the drop of a hat, and can lose it fast too. Look how massive most of them are after they retire. Foreman was over 300 lbs, Ali started blowing up as soon as he retired.

Ali started his career at 192, and ended at 220-225, a similar weight gain to Lewis.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:53

Foreman over 300;bs!

Ali when he retired though could barely train anymore though and has parkinsons and was probably a big eater.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 10 Sep 2007, 16:42

Agree with Phenom whole heartedly with the exception of Ibeabuchi and Peters
Peters has always been big, 240ish since turning pro in 2001.
Doubt he was on the gas back in Nigeria same with Ibeabuchi, turned pro pretty heavy and young. Fresh off the boat.

Golota, acne is a typical sign, but also factor in he was a 91kg amateur who in 2 years from 1992 to 1994 put on 20lbs of muscle :-)

Guys like foreman, lewis were 200lbs at 16. naturally massive guys.

I have said it before and i will say it again. The typical caucasian doesnt stack up well at heavyweight, the black fighters are more likely to be athletic at that size.
Therefore you get smaller white guys with the necessary skills, juicing up to get the necessary size.
Pretty much every succesful white heavyweight in the last 20 years has had drug history or his very suspicious:

Botha (failed test)
Morrison (confessed to steriod use)
Vitali (failed test)
Golata (huge weight gains)
Wlad (see Phenoms post, huge weight gain, extremely muscular)

Looking closer to home a certain british heavy/cruiser who could never gain any weight early in his career, went to USA and came back massive (still got chinned though).

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 10 Sep 2007, 17:35

The typical caucasian doesnt stack up well at heavyweight, the black fighters are more likely to be athletic at that size.

How?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Sep 2007, 18:19

knockout wrote:Agree with Phenom whole heartedly with the exception of Ibeabuchi and Peters
Peters has always been big, 240ish since turning pro in 2001.
Doubt he was on the gas back in Nigeria same with Ibeabuchi, turned pro pretty heavy and young. Fresh off the boat.).

Peter and Ibeauchi are pure muscle bulk. Ibeauchi had an unbelievable physique. His phychological breakdown could have been triggered by the huge hormonal swings that are a side effect of heavy steroid use

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 10 Sep 2007, 18:27

I think Lennox Lewis's weight gain was more 'fatty', that was obvious to see. Lennox was more conditioned in that Ali kind of way, I'm obviously no nutritionist but it strikes me that is probably the optimum way for a big guy to do it.

18st+ of rippling muscle does not a Heavyweight legend make.

Yoda might have possibly said that.