OT, This is England

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:30

REAL_DEAL wrote:Is it because it had something to do with your beloved West Ham

No, it was just plain crap. The 80's football scene just wasn't like that. The media has just exaggerated it all.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:31

boxingchat wrote:person is offensive without doubt although Blacks use it on other blacks all the time, personannly I hate it. But, is a Paki really any worse than being called a Brit or a Scot? It is aftr all a reference to your nation of origin. Yank, Aussie, eyetie come on, this is PC gone mad.

Do Pakistanis find Paki offensive, I don't know, or is it the actual way in which the word is delivered.

The media makes these terms out to be worse than they actually are when the origins of the 'phrase' is studied.

For instance, that idiot on Hell's Kitchen the other night said;

"He used the word Pikey which I find offensive, some of my best friends are Pikey's" - Work that one out!!

I was having a chat with a taxi-driving Pakistani and I asked him if he found the word Paki to be offensive, he didn't

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:32

In fact, this is a subject that shouldn't really be on a Boxing website, best leave it alone IMO.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:42

boxingchat wrote:person is offensive without doubt although Blacks use it on other blacks all the time, personannly I hate it. But, is a Paki really any worse than being called a Brit or a Scot? It is aftr all a reference to your nation of origin. Yank, Aussie, eyetie come on, this is PC gone mad.

Do Pakistanis find Paki offensive, I don't know, or is it the actual way in which the word is delivered.

The media makes these terms out to be worse than they actually are when the origins of the 'phrase' is studied.

For instance, that idiot on Hell's Kitchen the other night said;

"He used the word Pikey which I find offensive, some of my best friends are Pikey's" - Work that one out!!

The origins of the word are not so relevant.

My philosophy is to err on the side of caution. Some will find it offensive if you say Paki, some won't, best not to use the word at all in my opinion.

I thought Marco Pierre-White acted like a complete tool. He wasn't man enough to apologise for using a term that some people are definetly going to be offended by. That would have required to swallow his pride, which his throat isn't big enough for.

I thought Lee Ryan made a meal of it, but nontheless, Marco was in the wrong and should have just said 'Fair enough, I won't say it.'

He should have known better than to use that term on national TV anyway. I don't think it a particularly offensive term, but if I was a traveller, I would probably feel differently.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:50

Watched this film last week and thought it was terrific. I would have been around the age of the young lad in the film at that time and knocked about on the estate where I lived with older kids who were variously skinheads, rude boys and mods. The music of that time unified most of us, but as always there were a few loons that wanted to bully their way to being leader.

It is a film that captures a moment in time obviously based on Meadows’ childhood. It hasn’t got any overbearing message but I would say it highlighted, in some small way, how the skinhead movement (which had its roots in Jamaican dance hall and ska) was hijacked by some unhinged mentally disturbed racists. These characters were drawn to the overtly racist national front and they in turn tried to brainwash the youngsters by blaming ethnics for the unemployment and any other perceived dilution of national identity.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Sep 2007, 10:54

Since when have we shied away from any topic on this forum.

SHAME on you Terrence.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 10 Sep 2007, 19:21

Not too keen on the glorification of Football violence in his films, if anyone thinks that Football violence was really like that they are a dickhead..plus it only encourages Chav scum to start it off again

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 11 Sep 2007, 05:33

thepocketrocket wrote:Not too keen on the glorification of Football violence in his films, if anyone thinks that Football violence was really like that they are a dickhead..plus it only encourages Chav scum to start it off again

Spot on.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 11 Sep 2007, 05:40

Hell Kitchen - more BS last night.

Sling off Jim Davidson for saying 'Shirtlifter' to a bloke who makes his living by being a camp character yet leave the main man MPW on after saying Pikey.

It's never been illegal to be a Traveller has it?

'Shirtlifter' was quite tame IMO, he shopuld have give him a dry slap.

Personally, I am offended by the likes of Norton, O'Grady and Dowling on our TV camping it up and making poofy remarks without rebuke, Norton especially.

As for 'Sir' Trevor McDonald, why he can say "Fat White Bastard" without sanction whereas if someone said 'fat black Bastard' they'd be publicly hung.

The worlds gone PC OTT.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Sep 2007, 05:52

boxingchat wrote:Hell Kitchen - more BS last night.

Sling off Jim Davidson for saying 'Shirtlifter' to a bloke who makes his living by being a camp character yet leave the main man MPW on after saying Pikey.

It's never been illegal to be a Traveller has it?

'Shirtlifter' was quite tame IMO, he shopuld have give him a dry slap.

Personally, I am offended by the likes of Norton, O'Grady and Dowling on our TV camping it up and making poofy remarks without rebuke, Norton especially.

As for 'Sir' Trevor McDonald, why he can say "Fat White Bastard" without sanction whereas if someone said 'fat black Bastard' they'd be publicly hung.

The worlds gone PC OTT.

Spot on

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:29

Jim davidson is a complete prat.

It's obvious he couldn't handle being around someone who was gay. I mean, why did he have to keep making comments on the guy being gay. It's obvious he couldn't restrain himself from saying those things.

I find Graham Norton irritating, because I find that high camp act a big boring and old hat, but he's not being offensive about anyone.

The channel had no choice but to sling him off, after the Shilpa Shetty incident, they were in danger of broadcasting regulations.

To put this into context, given that this website can be threatended with legal action over the midlest inferences about certain promoters, surely you can understand a TV station feeling they had no choice but to sling off rentagob Davidson.

I found his comments pathetic towards the end "Maybe there's no place left for little old me in this world, but who's protecting me, whose protecting fat white middle aged men like me?"

This set out his Agenda clearly, 'gays, blacks, lesbians' are all 'the enemy' as far as a bigoted pillock like Jim Davidson is concerned.

I have no problem with the comment shirtlifter, I find it quite funny myself, and I've got gay mates so I'm not a homophobe, but I have more sense that to say it to someone I hardly know on live TV.

Jim Davidson went out of his way to make comments he knew would offend someone, so he's clearly in the wrong. It's quite obvious he despises gay people, and couldn't stand being around one, so he deserves to walk in my opinion for being a rather nasty piece of work.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:33

boxingchat wrote:Hell Kitchen - more BS last night.

Sling off Jim Davidson for saying 'Shirtlifter' to a bloke who makes his living by being a camp character yet leave the main man MPW on after saying Pikey.

It's never been illegal to be a Traveller has it?

'Shirtlifter' was quite tame IMO, he shopuld have give him a dry slap.

Personally, I am offended by the likes of Norton, O'Grady and Dowling on our TV camping it up and making poofy remarks without rebuke, Norton especially.

As for 'Sir' Trevor McDonald, why he can say "Fat White Bastard" without sanction whereas if someone said 'fat black Bastard' they'd be publicly hung.

The worlds gone PC OTT.

I agree though that if Jim had to go, then Marco should have been pulled off the show, but obviously, they can't do that without pulling the entire programme.

When did Trever McDonald say 'Fat White Bastard.'

Anyway, that point is pretty facile, as this is a predominantly white country, and white people haven't historically been the butt of racial discrimination, so the comments 'fat white bastard' and 'fat black bastard' aren't comporable.

Personally, I don't think calling someone a fat black bastard is a particularly offensive comment, but again, I ain't black, I'm white, so it's not for me to decide what is offensive or not.

As I said, to avoid offending people, err on the side of caution, freedom of speech is overrated.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:46

And anyone who read my comments on the 'Small ring entrance music' thread will realise im not sum raving right winger, I just want a sensible approch..not some, hes a racist, hes a homophope, hes a terrorist mentality which is becoming rather prevelant these days..

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:53

Terry D wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:And anyone who read my comments on the 'Small ring entrance music' thread will realise im not sum raving right winger, I just want a sensible approch..not some, hes a racist, hes a homophope, hes a terrorist mentality which is becoming rather prevelant these days..
So you're declaring Jihad on Norton and his black boyfriend then?

ALLAH AHKBAR!!!!

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 11 Sep 2007, 06:55

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Jim davidson is a complete prat.

It's obvious he couldn't handle being around someone who was gay. I mean, why did he have to keep making comments on the guy being gay. It's obvious he couldn't restrain himself from saying those things.

I find Graham Norton irritating, because I find that high camp act a big boring and old hat, but he's not being offensive about anyone.

The channel had no choice but to sling him off, after the Shilpa Shetty incident, they were in danger of broadcasting regulations.

To put this into context, given that this website can be threatended with legal action over the midlest inferences about certain promoters, surely you can understand a TV station feeling they had no choice but to sling off rentagob Davidson.

I found his comments pathetic towards the end "Maybe there's no place left for little old me in this world, but who's protecting me, whose protecting fat white middle aged men like me?"

This set out his Agenda clearly, 'gays, blacks, lesbians' are all 'the enemy' as far as a bigoted pillock like Jim Davidson is concerned.

I have no problem with the comment shirtlifter, I find it quite funny myself, and I've got gay mates so I'm not a homophobe, but I have more sense that to say it to someone I hardly know on live TV.

Jim Davidson went out of his way to make comments he knew would offend someone, so he's clearly in the wrong. It's quite obvious he despises gay people, and couldn't stand being around one, so he deserves to walk in my opinion for being a rather nasty piece of work.

James, I like your thoughts and points. To be honest I, like Jim Davidson, am extremely uncomfortable around Gay's. I'm not apologising for it it's just the way I am as them being Gay is just the way they are.
I am Homophobic, but to the extreme that I want to nail bomb them etc I just don't like it but I accept it is there and won't go away.

As for Jim Davidson, he say's what he thinks and is entitled to his opinon as much as the next person. Was him actually saying 'Shirtlifter' that offensive? When he said GAY stood for "As Good as You" he was actually standing up for GAY's not putting them down. If Brian had actually listened he would have heared that Victor Spinetti had told Jim that line, a Gay!

Has Brian Dowling really never been insulted about his Sexuality before and in worse terms, I doubt it very much. He was playing the GAY card, without doubt and Jim was right to pull him on it.

So who's to blame, IMO the Producers, they knew what would happen and sat back and waited for it to do so in the name of ratings.

JImbo said it as he saw it and at least was up front.The others said FA so they are not without blame.

MPW Should have been penalised for the Pikey line but that would have afected the prograame so that, in the world of money, makes his quip okay. Hypocritical Bullshit IMO.

I find Jim Davidson a pretty straight talking bloke (Not some PC fraud) and a good comedian, maybe in this PC world a little outdated but I doubt there's anyone out there who he hasn't made laugh at some point in his career. He hasn't made his millions by not making people, laugh at his rascist, sexist and homophobic jokes or not selling them videos over 30 odd years.

he does alot of charity work and has done great work for our lads in the forces, black, white and Gay whatever.

Besides, what's worse calling someone a Shirtlifter or shooting a Deer for commercial gain?

Remember, let he without sin cast the first stone.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Sep 2007, 07:01

It's rather telling that even Davidson's son was the only person he had to speak about him, and by his own admission he had no friends.

He went out of his way to offend and paid the price for it, hard to feel sorry for him, he was also never funny even in his heyday.

Whilst I wasn't exactly a fan of Bernard Manning, I will admit that some of his stuff was funny, and he was a funny bloke. Jim Davidson was just a prat.

Funnily enough, my Aunt shut him up once years ago at Margate when I was about four. He was spouting off Irish joke after Irish joke, and my aunt (who is Irish), lost the plot and stormed the stage and started laying into him about how his whole act seemed to revolve around making out that Irish people are thick. She was dragged off the stage by security, but totally sodded his act up for him, as he then had to switch to making jokes about black people instead.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 11 Sep 2007, 07:03

When did Trever McDonald say 'Fat White Bastard.'

On his poor satirical news porgramme. Under the heading Racist and dead he said "I never found him to be a racist , just a Fat White Bastard"

Oftel bosses say that's okay in the context!!

What a load of bollocks.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Sep 2007, 07:10

boxingchat wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Jim davidson is a complete prat.

It's obvious he couldn't handle being around someone who was gay. I mean, why did he have to keep making comments on the guy being gay. It's obvious he couldn't restrain himself from saying those things.

I find Graham Norton irritating, because I find that high camp act a big boring and old hat, but he's not being offensive about anyone.

The channel had no choice but to sling him off, after the Shilpa Shetty incident, they were in danger of broadcasting regulations.

To put this into context, given that this website can be threatended with legal action over the midlest inferences about certain promoters, surely you can understand a TV station feeling they had no choice but to sling off rentagob Davidson.

I found his comments pathetic towards the end "Maybe there's no place left for little old me in this world, but who's protecting me, whose protecting fat white middle aged men like me?"

This set out his Agenda clearly, 'gays, blacks, lesbians' are all 'the enemy' as far as a bigoted pillock like Jim Davidson is concerned.

I have no problem with the comment shirtlifter, I find it quite funny myself, and I've got gay mates so I'm not a homophobe, but I have more sense that to say it to someone I hardly know on live TV.

Jim Davidson went out of his way to make comments he knew would offend someone, so he's clearly in the wrong. It's quite obvious he despises gay people, and couldn't stand being around one, so he deserves to walk in my opinion for being a rather nasty piece of work.
James, I like your thoughts and points. To be honest I, like Jim Davidson, am extremely uncomfortable around Gay's. I'm not apologising for it it's just the way I am as them being Gay is just the way they are.
I am Homophobic, but to the extreme that I want to nail bomb them etc I just don't like it but I accept it is there and won't go away.

As for Jim Davidson, he say's what he thinks and is entitled to his opinon as much as the next person. Was him actually saying 'Shirtlifter' that offensive? When he said GAY stood for "As Good as You" he was actually standing up for GAY's not putting them down. If Brian had actually listened he would have heared that Victor Spinetti had told Jim that line, a Gay!

Has Brian Dowling really never been insulted about his Sexuality before and in worse terms, I doubt it very much. He was playing the GAY card, without doubt and Jim was right to pull him on it.

So who's to blame, IMO the Producers, they knew what would happen and sat back and waited for it to do so in the name of ratings.

JImbo said it as he saw it and at least was up front.The others said FA so they are not without blame.

MPW Should have been penalised for the Pikey line but that would have afected the prograame so that, in the world of money, makes his quip okay. Hypocritical Bullshit IMO.

I find Jim Davidson a pretty straight talking bloke (Not some PC fraud) and a good comedian, maybe in this PC world a little outdated but I doubt there's anyone out there who he hasn't made laugh at some point in his career. He hasn't made his millions by not making people, laugh at his rascist, sexist and homophobic jokes or not selling them videos over 30 odd years.

he does alot of charity work and has done great work for our lads in the forces, black, white and Gay whatever.

Besides, what's worse calling someone a Shirtlifter or shooting a Deer for commercial gain?

Remember, let he without sin cast the first stone.

Well, fair enough for admitting to it. However, I would ask you, do you think you would have kept on making the comments Jim Davidson was making. I take your point about Brian 'playing the poof card,' but that is part of how gay men identify themselves, it's a kind of act they use to make it easier to spot one another, and becomes second nature, (well, that's my theory anyway).

Whether or not Brian is an irritating bloke (personally, I think he is), he's a human being and deserves respect for no other reason than that, and the fact he was reduced to tears by Jim Davidson, indicates he was made to feel very uncomfortable. I think the main problem was that he could feel that Jim Davidson disliked him because he was gay, which cannot be a nice feeling.

Recently I've felt quite a lot of racism towards me from certain young black men in my area, which I find very annoying indeed, so I can imagine how he felt.

It's not like I would want to hang out in a gay club or anything, but I guess it's a generation thing, or a background thing. A lot of people just accept it as part of life these days that there are gay people around. It's not really an issue for me, because what they choose to do with their genetalia in the middle of the night, is entirely their choice.

To be honest, there's nothing wrong with shooting a Deer. It's his land, and they are his deer, and given that he already eats meat, then why not, at least it's honest.

I started out during this show warming to Jim Davidson, and he seemed an alright bloke. He is probably an alright bloke if you think like he does, but he obviously couldn't bite his tongue any longer. It's worth remembering he's also a violent alcoholic who used to beat his wife.

Nobody is all good, nor all bad, but I don't think me and Jim would get on too well over a pint. In fact, I'd probably end up chinning the fornicator.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Sep 2007, 07:13

boxingchat wrote:When did Trever McDonald say 'Fat White Bastard.'

On his poor satirical news porgramme. Under the heading Racist and dead he said "I never found him to be a racist , just a Fat White Bastard"

Oftel bosses say that's okay in the context!!

What a load of bollocks.

But that is clearly a tongue in cheek comment surely?

Surely you can see that he's just playing on the topic title? I doubt anyone was offended by it.

The context is important in these things.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Sep 2007, 07:13

Terry D wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:
Terry D wrote: So you're declaring Jihad on Norton and his black boyfriend then?
ALLAH AHKBAR!!!!
That's the one, I'd forgotton his name, he is from the Sudan no?

Funny shit!!

MecnunK · Post by **MecnunK** » 11 Sep 2007, 11:28

back on topic.. I thought the film was average at best .. I dont know it seemed to be lacking a climax of some nature which I expected.. There were also various other avenues angles which were left unexplored. Perhaps I am being a little harsh and he delivered exactly what he wanted to portray but it didnt seem to gel well from beginning to end. I thought it had a great start, a good albiet slow middle and ending was just a washout as far as I am concerned.
Agree on Greent street as I enjoyed the film. unpretentitious and doesnt try to be anything but..

On calling someone a person, paki or a pikey it all depends on context as to whether it is offensive or not I guess. I doubt most people call an actual black person a person or someone of pakustani descent a paki for wont of a better word.. It is smeant to be racist. By the waht would you call a pakistani Traveller? Paikey ?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Sep 2007, 14:07

It were sterling. All er it.

They had to use violence and racist dialogue. Otherwise it would be glossing some serious stuff over.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 12 Sep 2007, 04:59

Going back to the Hells kitchen thing - It isn't to dissimilar to how Nigel Benn was towards lesbian Rhona Cameroon in the "i'm a celebrtiy get me out of here" programme.

My own view is that when they where seated around the table it was Brian pushing Davidson and sure enough the inevitable reaction came from Davidson.

Pesonally I thought it was blown way out of proprtion by Dowling and his 'performance' was oscar worthy.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Sep 2007, 05:10

Really? We must have very different perceptions of it.

Jim Davidson made it pretty clear early on he had a problem with Brian, when he made his big speech before, 'walking.' It was clear he wanted to make him feel uncomfortable and succeeded.

One good thing has come out of this, at least Jim Davidson's career is definetly over now. Although he may get some work doing stand up at BNP rallies in the future off the back of the show.

I thought the below was pretty funny, from Wikipedia.

In 2002, Davidson was escorted from the grounds of the Marriott Bristol Royal Hotel, England, after it was alleged that he had become confrontational and abusive to staff.[18]

Davidson was sued in October 2003 after a woman was seriously injured in a fall at Wellington Pier, which Davidson leased at the time. It was alleged that he had failed to maintain the pier properly. The case was subsequently withdrawn.[19]

In 2004, comedian Jimmy Carr threatened legal action against Davidson, accusing Davidson of having plagiarised some of his comic material.[20]

In October 2006, he was again accused of making insensitive jokes about cancer sufferers, blind people, a woman in a wheelchair, and the recent trial over the murder of Damilola Taylor, prompting a woman to walk out of the show in disgust. Davidson vehemently denied the charge, claiming that jokes about blind people and cancer sufferers would have merited a "mass walkout." He also said the comments about the Damilola Taylor trial were taken out of context: "My actual remark was that I thought the killers should be locked away forever. And if she objects to that then that is her prerogative."[21]

In December 2006, Davidson was embarrassed by a 15-year-old boy who heckled him during a performance of his pantomime Dick Whittington in Kent. Reportedly, Davidson came on stage at the Orchard Theatre in Dartford, delivering the scripted line, "Do you know who I am?” The boy, a Scout in full uniform, loudly replied, "Yes, you’re a fornicating wanker." According to The Sun, Davidson was enraged and spent the remainder of the first half of the show in a sullen mood. He reportedly tried unsuccessfully to find the boy's scoutmaster during the interval to personally address his heckler.[22]

In 2007, Davidson was called on to defend the good character of close friend Brian Brendon Wright, one of Britain's biggest cocaine barons. Despite Davidson testifying to Wright's good character, the judge concluded that Wright was in fact "a master criminal, manipulative, influential and powerful," and sentenced him to 30 years in prison. [23]

In August 2007, UK newspaper The People alleged that Davidson had taken part in a number of "bizarre sex sessions" with a prostitute. Among other allegations, the paper claimed that Davidson had gone on all fours and impersonated a dog, while at the same time requesting sexual favours.[24]

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 12 Sep 2007, 05:54

Jim Davidson USED to be funny.
Like all comedians, they have a sell by date(see modern day Ricky Gervais for a comedian just passed his sell by date

)and unfortunately for Davidson, I don't think he has been funny for at least a decade.
When you are on top, you can get away with the kind of things he is listed as doing above, and the recent celebrity chef bollocks.
Imagine if Jimmy Carr(who, is pretty over rated if you ask me) had done similar things...would of been a totally different reaction.

It's the "in" thing not to like Jim Davidson these days.So when he is down, plenty will stick the boot in.

Watch what happens to these current middle class, university graduates that masquerade as comedians in twenty years time when people are all laughing at the latest crop of Iraqi lesbian comedians, that are the new fad in the comedy world!
It's a vicous circle.

The producers of the show knew that Davidson is a racist, homophobe....so why on earth did they get him in with the annoying, famous for absolutely no reason at all, Brian Dowling in the first place?
It's because they were praying for an episode like this!!!