Outstanding Amateurs: Failed Professionals

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 06 Sep 2007, 20:56

-Chuck Wepner; was the 1964 Golden Gloves HW champion, and had over 300+ amateur bouts, supposedly without a loss. As a professional his record was 35-14-2 (17), but didn't quite live up the hype he was given as an amateur, losing every round to Muhammad Ali in his only world title shot, was given a gift decision over Ernie Terrell, lost to a still green George Foreman, lost to an over the hill Sonny Liston...it can be argued his greatest win was over Henry Clark or Charlie Polite.

-Tom McNeeley

-Pete Rademacher

-Duane Bobick

-Henry Tillman

On the flip side, guys who failed as amateurs but turned out decent professional careers:

Randall "Tex" Cobb

Michael Grant

Greg Haugen*

Tommy Morrison*

*They competed in Toughman contests

markl · Post by **markl** » 06 Sep 2007, 23:15

Paul Gonzalez
Davey Armstrong

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Sep 2007, 12:31

Jimmy Clark.
Errol Christie.
Bernard Taylor.
Craig Payne.
Curtis Harris.
Clint Jackson.

All seemed to have more success in the Amateurs than the professional ranks.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Sep 2007, 12:55

I forgot.

Ricky Womack.
Bernard Mays.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 07 Sep 2007, 13:15

Jerry Page

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 07 Sep 2007, 13:16

Ricky Womack went to jail, that's why he never made it as a pro. Clint Jackson was on the great '76 Olympic team but got KOd by Buster Drayton who was the IBF jr middle champ for a short while in the 2nd rd. Jackson was a Sheriff in his hometown but did something stupid and ended up in jail himself. Casamayor and Breland won pro titles but were not considered great pros.
Tommy Morrison was a decent amateur. He didn't make the Olympic team but he won a national PAL championship in '88.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 07 Sep 2007, 13:49

I'd say a good candidate would also be Terry Doyle, who beat Joe Frazier as an amateur, but in the 'rematch' as pros, Joe flattened the shit out of Terry Doyle.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 10 Sep 2007, 21:11

I suppose Marvis Frazier could be in this list.

Back in the old days ie late 19th early 20th century was there an amateur circuit and what was the amateur careers of the old champs like ?

Kym

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 10 Sep 2007, 21:14

Mitch Green looked pretty good and from accounts was a top amateur.

Dwight Qawi didnt have much of a amateur career but seemed to have
done well as a pro.

Kym

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 11 Sep 2007, 09:23

Dwight Qawi didnt have much of a amateur career but seemed to have done well as a pro.

Dwight didn't have any amateur career. He went from Ralway penitentiary right to the pros.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 11 Sep 2007, 09:29

Apparently Thomas Hearns was nothing special as an amateur, and the change from 12 to 8 ounce gloves made a big difference to his power.

Of recent fighters, Audley Harrison is definitely one whose pro career has not lived up to expectations.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 11 Sep 2007, 12:00

Anthony "Two Guns" Fletcher was something like 5 time national AAU champion back in the 70's but didn't do much as a pro. He was brother to Frank "The Animal" Fletcher who was a good 8-10 rounder, got some TV fights but never won a titile before he ended up in prison.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 11 Sep 2007, 12:42

jezzamundo wrote:Apparently Thomas Hearns was nothing special as an amateur, and the change from 12 to 8 ounce gloves made a big difference to his power.

Hearns was a good amateur who gave Aaron Pryor a very close fight in the Amateurs, Pryor wnet on to lose (twice?) to Howard Davis Jr so didn't make the Olympic team. But Hearns was at least 'in the running' for the team at one point.

I think the professional training, style and maturing physically has more to do with Hearns increased KO% than the change of gloves to be honest.

I have the Pryor vs Hearns fight and were Pryor fights like he did in the professionals the very thin and young looking Hearns fought far less like his future professional style.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 11 Sep 2007, 13:38

Olympic Champions like

Edward Sanders (1952, Heavy)
Jim Boyd (1956, Light heavy)
Rafael Iglesias (1948, Heavy, Argentinian)
Ricardo Delgado (1968, Fly, Mexican)
Howard Davis (1976, 132 lbs)

Antonio Pacenza (1952, Silver Medal, as unbeaten pro was knocked out by Atilio Caraune for the Argentinian Light heavyweight vacant title and, after this, his career wasn't the same)

Alberto Daher, Argentinian Welter and Middle who win many times the South American and Latin American titles as amateur

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 11 Sep 2007, 13:52

, Pryor wnet on to lose (twice?) to Howard Davis Jr so didn't make the Olympic team.

Pryor lost to Ray Leonard not Davis. He lost to him in the Olympic trials and then the box-off. Split decisions both times. Pryor turns pro makes $400. Leonard wins the gold and gets $40,000 for his 1st pro fight.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 11 Sep 2007, 13:53

KOJOE90 wrote:
jezzamundo wrote:Apparently Thomas Hearns was nothing special as an amateur, and the change from 12 to 8 ounce gloves made a big difference to his power.
Hearns was a good amateur who gave Aaron Pryor a very close fight in the Amateurs, Pryor wnet on to lose (twice?) to Howard Davis Jr so didn't make the Olympic team. But Hearns was at least 'in the running' for the team at one point.

I think the professional training, style and maturing physically has more to do with Hearns increased KO% than the change of gloves to be honest.

I have the Pryor vs Hearns fight and were Pryor fights like he did in the professionals the very thin and young looking Hearns fought far less like his future professional style.

Emmanuel Steward had a lot to do with Hearns' power as a pro, because he trained him specifically so he could use his natural power and utilize his leverage to increase that. He trained him so that he could get maximum extension on Hearns' right arm when he snapped it out and to put his whole body into it. Once he did he became a cannon.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 11 Sep 2007, 14:04

JMac wrote:
, Pryor wnet on to lose (twice?) to Howard Davis Jr so didn't make the Olympic team.
Pryor lost to Ray Leonard not Davis. He lost to him in the Olympic trials and then the box-off. Split decisions both times. Pryor turns pro makes $400. Leonard wins the gold and gets $40,000 for his 1st pro fight.

Pryor was a Lightweight as an Amateur where Leonard was a Light-welterweight. They never four.

But they did spar.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 11 Sep 2007, 14:41

Decagon wrote:Pryor lost to Kevin Howard as a lightweight..

Are you sure? I thought Pryor didn't get on the Olympic team because he lost to Howard Davis jr? (maybe twice)

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 11 Sep 2007, 15:42

KOJOE90 wrote:
JMac wrote:
, Pryor wnet on to lose (twice?) to Howard Davis Jr so didn't make the Olympic team.
Pryor lost to Ray Leonard not Davis. He lost to him in the Olympic trials and then the box-off. Split decisions both times. Pryor turns pro makes $400. Leonard wins the gold and gets $40,000 for his 1st pro fight.
Pryor was a Lightweight as an Amateur where Leonard was a Light-welterweight. They never four.

But they did spar.

and according to some guy on HBO's Legendary Nights: Tale of Pryor-Arguello "Pryor used to give him a working over!"

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 11 Sep 2007, 15:55

Casamayor is the only Cuban to win Olympic Gold AND a World Title (that may be just Castro-Era)

Is that really a failed pro career?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Sep 2007, 16:39

I agree. Unless you expected Casamayor to have a guaranteed Hall of Fame career, you can't really consider him as a bust. He's been a top fighter this entire decade at 130 and 135.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Sep 2007, 18:16

Decagon wrote:
tegenm wrote:I agree. Unless you expected Casamayor to have a guaranteed Hall of Fame career, you can't really consider him as a bust. He's been a top fighter this entire decade at 130 and 135.
I know, but in the amateurs, he was excellent. He easily could have won a second Gold Medal at Atlanta - in fact, he was favored to.

So what did you expect out of him, if you deem him to be a failure?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 11 Sep 2007, 18:37

Mark Breland immediately came to mind at reading the title of the thread. In hindsight he wasn't a failed pro at all since he won a title and defended it. The weight of expectation on the guy must have been almost overwhelming considering his amateur pedigree. Breland kept his dignity through all the sh*t that was thrown his was during the later part of his pro career

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 12 Sep 2007, 04:11

Bernard Gray.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 12 Sep 2007, 08:47

Audley Harrison, won olympic gold but massive disappointment as a pro