is Hatton being a hypocrite?

jimmy the gent · Post by **jimmy the gent** » 12 Sep 2007, 22:45

In regards to the Hatton-Witter saga that has been going on for far to long, and it is not my intention to add to this, but i just wanted to clear the reason up as to why hatton refuses to fight witter. I know that now witter is not a big enough name in america so i suppose financially it is not exactly a massive fight in america, but four years ago it would have been massive over here and still would be. Now i have been and still am a big fan of hatton since the first time i seen him fight in his second pro fight, infact so much so that i adopted a lot of his body punching, side-to-side style into my own style. Because of where hatton is based and the type of people that he moves with(a lot of pub-going football supporters who love to support there own) allegedly was able to exploit that and ease him into world class(being paid very well on the way up), unlike witter who was never marketed the way hatton was, thus had to travel the length and breadth of the country to get paid, and was never able to build up that kind of support. The point i am making as a fellow professional is that hatton knows how hard it is for the majority of professionals in this one of, if not the hardest sport in the world to make a decent living, and for him to say that he wont fight witter because he doesn't want to give him a decent pay day, and that he enjoys seeing him squirm in small hall events is a bit of a liberty to a fellow pro. I assume he is saying this because he feels that witter has been bad-mouthing him over the years. but yet fights mayweather whose bad mouthed him far worse than witter ever has. what if de la hoya turned round and said eff off to mayweather, vargas and mayorga for the abuse that he took, and denied them the biggest pay day of there career. Boxers verbally abuse other boxers all the time, it's nothing new. This fight should have happened when hatton was fighting fighters like; mike stewart,s smith, pederson, rios, vilches and oliveira. Witter is a wbc world champion and deserves to be treated as such and respected, after all he hasn't said anything particularly nasty to hatton.
Even though respect to both Hatton and Witter, both class acts in the ring.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 13 Sep 2007, 02:48

I'm inclined to agree that Hatton is being a hypocrite.

Hatton comes across a bit like Sugar Ray Leonard; he seems a bit spiteful at times, refusing to fight people at certain times or only taking them on when he thinks it's safe.

Hatton should just fight Witter & be done with it.

The fight would be huge in Britain & goodness knows we need some big domestic battles.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 13 Sep 2007, 03:01

Hatton is a hypocrite and a scared of Witter!

Imagine, most fighters in Hattons stable have 2nd jobs, he say a fellow professional does not deserve a payday?

These guys risk their lives everytoime they step in the ring.

THEY DESERVE THE PAY DAY!

PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE HIM AWARE THAT WE ARE SEEING THROUGH HIS CRAP!

This will blow up in Hattons face, both of them!

STP · Post by **STP** » 13 Sep 2007, 03:16

Hatton says "I'm just a modest lad from a council estate who wants no attention" one day, then the next day he says "I'm desperate for Frank Bruno's fame!".

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 04:25

jimmy the gent wrote:In regards to the Hatton-Witter saga that has been going on for far to long, and it is not my intention to add to this, but i just wanted to clear the reason up as to why hatton refuses to fight witter. I know that now witter is not a big enough name in america so i suppose financially it is not exactly a massive fight in america, but four years ago it would have been massive over here and still would be. Now i have been and still am a big fan of hatton since the first time i seen him fight in his second pro fight, infact so much so that i adopted a lot of his body punching, side-to-side style into my own style. Because of where hatton is based and the type of people that he moves with(a lot of pub-going football supporters who love to support there own) allegedly allegedly was able to exploit that and ease him into world class(being paid very well on the way up), unlike witter who was never marketed the way hatton was, thus had to travel the length and breadth of the country to get paid, and was never able to build up that kind of support. The point i am making as a fellow professional is that hatton knows how hard it is for the majority of professionals in this one of, if not the hardest sport in the world to make a decent living, and for him to say that he wont fight witter because he doesn't want to give him a decent pay day, and that he enjoys seeing him squirm in small hall events is a bit of a liberty to a fellow pro. I assume he is saying this because he feels that witter has been bad-mouthing him over the years. but yet fights mayweather whose bad mouthed him far worse than witter ever has. what if de la hoya turned round and said eff off to mayweather, vargas and mayorga for the abuse that he took, and denied them the biggest pay day of there career. Boxers verbally abuse other boxers all the time, it's nothing new. This fight should have happened when hatton was fighting fighters like; mike stewart,s smith, pederson, rios, vilches and oliveira. Witter is a wbc world champion and deserves to be treated as such and respected, after all he hasn't said anything particularly nasty to hatton.
Even though respect to both Hatton and Witter, both class acts in the ring.

Excellent post Jimmy. There have been a couple of threads since Juniors win over Harris where we've raised the same points, it stinks that Hatton won't fight him in what I think would now be the biggest all British fight ever.

The reasons that Hatton gives i.e. he doesn't want to give Witter a payday and Witter has bad-mouthed him, are just excuses and not even very good ones. As you say Hatton is a fellow pro and should know how difficult it is to forge a career when you're not well followed and don't get the opportunities that hes had.

IMO Hatton doesn't like how the fight matches up stylistically and he would be putting alot on the line to fight Witter, whereas if he fights a great like Mayweather or Castillo a loss is not catastrophic. I think Hatton was hoping that someone else was going to take care of Witter for him and that Junior would fade way into obscurity, but Witters done things in a stark contrast to Hatton with less opportunities, but has still got to a similar level. Respect.

Contrary to what some say, I think this fight would make for a great spectacle as well as a great occasion.....lets get it on, cuz they don't get along!!!!

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 13 Sep 2007, 04:47

Hatton/Mayweather

or

Hatton/Witter

Only a numpty would prefer hatton/witter ;p

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 04:51

Twinkle Toes wrote:Hatton/Mayweather

or

Hatton/Witter

Only a numpty would prefer hatton/witter ;p

They're not mutually exclusive, how about Hatton/Mayweather followed by Hatton/Witter?

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 13 Sep 2007, 05:17

Chambers2 wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:Hatton/Mayweather

or

Hatton/Witter

Only a numpty would prefer hatton/witter ;p
They're not mutually exclusive, how about Hatton/Mayweather followed by Hatton/Witter?

Whats to say this won't happen?

These "big fights" seem to be made when we are all least expecting it.

As it stands, I think the little crusade against Hatton should stop for a while.
He is fighting the man regarded as the best p4p fighter on the planet.
I have a feeling, Hatton and his camp are'nt really thinking too much about Witter at this moment in time, and even less about pleasing the very small minority of "fans" insisting he should fight Witter as soon as possible.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Sep 2007, 05:42

Paul Williams is twice the size of Floyd Mayweather, so I don't see how Williams cuffing, slapping and holding his way to victory - which I don't even think he deserved - has any bearing on Floyd-Margarito.

Being that he usedto be a super feather, Floyd was never going to fight a big welter near his prime if he could help it. Obviously, he has huge ability if he can win an alphabet belt up at 154. But I don't know if that says anything about how Floyd-Margarito would have gone.

I'm inclined to believe Margarito would have given him a hard fight.

IMO it was the Clottey fight that exposed Margarito a bit. Clottey was hitting him with everything, with full power.

As British fans, we've been asking for Hatton-Witter since about 2002. I think it'll happen, but only when/if Hatton loses some stock. Witter's more likely to fight 140pound prospect Ajose Olusegun - which will appeal to the Sky Sports viewers - or Demetrius Hopkins, who's being groomed for a title. GBP have a piece of Witter, and will probably bring him over when DH is ready.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 13 Sep 2007, 05:51

That's not what the post is about. He's saying Hatton should have fought Witter when he was fight Pederson, Vilches, Stewart etc which nobody can disagree with. Witter made Hatton look quite bad at the time for chosing these fighters when he had made himself available, often at the last minute (in the case of Pederson).

Nobody is saying he should fight Witter and not Mayweather, we all want our fighters to prove themselves against the best, but the reasons Hatton has previously given for not fighting Witter are crap. Yes it's an old topic, but with Witter now doing really well for himself, if he fights and beat Malignaggi around the time Hatton is losing to Mayweather it's the obvious comeback fight. Whether Hatton wants to give Witter a payday or not

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:05

yiddo14 wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:Hatton/Mayweather

or

Hatton/Witter

Only a numpty would prefer hatton/witter ;p
They're not mutually exclusive, how about Hatton/Mayweather followed by Hatton/Witter?
Whats to say this won't happen?

These "big fights" seem to be made when we are all least expecting it.

As it stands, I think the little crusade against Hatton should stop for a while.
He is fighting the man regarded as the best p4p fighter on the planet.
I have a feeling, Hatton and his camp are'nt really thinking too much about Witter at this moment in time, and even less about pleasing the very small minority of "fans" insisting he should fight Witter as soon as possible.

It may well happen next, but history doesn't fill me with much confidence.

This is not a crusade against Hatton, if it is any kind of crusade its a 'crusade' for Witter and for him to get what he (and the British fans IMO) deserves.

Obviously Hatton has got BIGGER things on his plate at the moment, but that doesn't stop us specualting about the future

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:15

I've given up arguing this point. It polarises people.

Mayweather next excuses Hatton.

Witter needs to plough his own furrow now. The fight will never happen, and I'd stop giving Hatton the satisfaction of having to slap me down to the press.

It only perpetuates this notion that he doesn't seel tickets, is boring to watch and unworthy all from a voice which is quoted, reported and replayed over and over again.

Change strategy, dominate 140 pounds. I'm not sure Hatton returns to 140 now. The money is at 147. Unless he feasts on Casamayor etc coming up.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:19

Autobarn wrote:Paul Williams is twice the size of Floyd Mayweather, so I don't see how Williams cuffing, slapping and holding his way to victory - which I don't even think he deserved - has any bearing on Floyd-Margarito.
.

WHAT?!?!?!? I don't know how anyone can give any less than 7 rounds to Williams in that fight, it wasn't slightly controversal. The only people other than the biased maxboxing team who built up Marg for 2 years and were made to look like complete fools when Williams schooled Marg. Even the MArgarito ass kissers on ESB didn't think Marg won, which says allot.

I think Williams must have outlanded Marg 2-1 in that fight

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:25

Autobarn wrote: Being that he usedto be a super feather, Floyd was never going to fight a big welter near his prime if he could help it. Obviously, he has huge ability if he can win an alphabet belt up at 154. But I don't know if that says anything about how Floyd-Margarito would have gone.

I'm inclined to believe Margarito would have given him a hard fight.

IMO it was the Clottey fight that exposed Margarito a bit. Clottey was hitting him with everything, with full power.
.

Marg would have been a hard fight for Floyd but he would have won in a tough 1. Delahoya is at least as big as Margarito, but Margarito supplys more pressure, although his pressure isn't very educated, his defense is poor, hes slow and he can be outboxed by lesser fighters.

Margarito has had problems with - Clottey, Williams and Santos

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:28

Most fighters don't want to risk losing for little reward, if they are going to risk losing it has to be for something bigger than they would recieve if they had no risk of losing.

Although Team Hatton and his fans won't admit it Witter is a Big risk for little reward. Although the reward is growing and over the years Hattons manhood has been questioned over the avoidance of this fight

Witter needs to go lookingfor other big names because Hatton isn't an immediate fight that will happen.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:38

verballistic wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:Hatton/Mayweather

or

Hatton/Witter

Only a numpty would prefer hatton/witter ;p
agreed...we heard the same thing in the states when floyd signed to fight oscar and the detractors said he should be fighting antonio margarito!!

the detractors got ultimately discredited after oscar-floyd did record numbers that contributed to an uptick in megafights this fall...and even moreso after margarito got exposed by paul williams---a solid fighter but nowhere near floyd's (or oscar's) caliber!!

likewise, the hatton detractors are being ridiculous if they are suggesting anything other than fighting witter AFTER he fights floyd in a career-defining fight!!

Nobody on here has said that Hatton should be fighting Witter instead of Floyd, that would be ridiculous. We're just saying that he should have fought Witter in the numerous opportunities that he's had over the past 5-6 years and that he should fight him after Mayweather.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 06:46

Terry D wrote:I think it's time to put it to bed also. The points about Witter-Hatton taking place instead of Hatton-Smith, a real low, are perfectly valid but they have been superseded by reality. Both men have moved on and people should do likewise.

Hatton is going to be tied-up for 2-3 fights at least. Floyd, perhaps a rematch depending on the result and another mega fight, in the eyes of many, after that one.

The argument floated for the fight taking place now by the odd few is that Hatton and Witter are #1 and #2 in the country, possibly the world at LW but it just might be that Hatton is done at LW for a few fights. If he takes on Witter it will be an afterthought a few years down the line.

In the meantime Witter has his own challenge from Gavin Rees so why not take him on? Both are currently #1 and #2 in the UK at the weight. Surely a fight should be made? Or is it that simple.

DG, they are all full time boxers at The Phoenix. No one owes anyone a payday in boxing and Witter has a title and an impressive scalps, let him go and get the money.

Sold out venues would be a good start and again his fans need to jump on coaches and support him. How many on here were at the Harris fight? Bigger crowds, bigger venues would make for the money you feel the sport owes him. Hatton played the PR game as many have pointed out and is reaping the rewards, Witter did not or could not and the pay packets reflect this. You are only owed what you sow.

Its a little presumptous that Hatton will be tied up for 2-3 fights after Mayweather. If he wins or comes close then yes he will be tied up. What if he losses and doesn't look impressive? What is Hattons best option then? Rebuilding fights? Fight the loser of Mosley-Cotto? Fight Witter? Fight the easiest belt holder at 140? Or fight Witter?

As for Witter-Rees - that would be a nice easy unification but are we naive enough to believe Warren just hands over the WBA belt to Witter?

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 07:15

Terry D wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
verballistic wrote: agreed...we heard the same thing in the states when floyd signed to fight oscar and the detractors said he should be fighting antonio margarito!!

the detractors got ultimately discredited after oscar-floyd did record numbers that contributed to an uptick in megafights this fall...and even moreso after margarito got exposed by paul williams---a solid fighter but nowhere near floyd's (or oscar's) caliber!!

likewise, the hatton detractors are being ridiculous if they are suggesting anything other than fighting witter AFTER he fights floyd in a career-defining fight!!
Nobody on here has said that Hatton should be fighting Witter instead of Floyd, that would be ridiculous. We're just saying that he should have fought Witter in the numerous opportunities that he's had over the past 5-6 years and that he should fight him after Mayweather.
That bird has flown though.

Shouldn't these types of the threads be out numbered by the threads talking about Witter's next realisable next move? Amp up the positives and all that. He is a WBC title holder who has truly legitimised his title, he is on a roll, he is coming off his most exciting display in years and he is getting acclaim yet still his fans couch him in purely negative terms. What he has not got, what he has missed out on, how he has suffered.

I don't think that the Bird has flown at all, they're both world champs at 140. I think the fight is at its ideal time to be made especially if PBF beats Hatton (which incidentally I hope is not the case).

We've talked about Witters other possible moves in other threads, but its the Hatton fight that really floats my boat. I reckon it could be the BIGGEST all British clash ever

A unification would be the next best option, I'd like to see Witter Vs Rees, but I don't see Frank sharing my same enthusiasm (I may be wrong). Malignanni would be a high profile fight for Junior and its one he has to (and will) take if its on offer, but stylistically the fight just looks all wrong.

Torres would be my next pick, Junior would probably have to travel for it, but I don't see that bothering him. I think it would make for an entertaining fight and Torres is quite well known in the states.

Other than that theres not alot of top class fights about.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 07:19

Terry D wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Terry D wrote:I think it's time to put it to bed also. The points about Witter-Hatton taking place instead of Hatton-Smith, a real low, are perfectly valid but they have been superseded by reality. Both men have moved on and people should do likewise.

Hatton is going to be tied-up for 2-3 fights at least. Floyd, perhaps a rematch depending on the result and another mega fight, in the eyes of many, after that one.

The argument floated for the fight taking place now by the odd few is that Hatton and Witter are #1 and #2 in the country, possibly the world at LW but it just might be that Hatton is done at LW for a few fights. If he takes on Witter it will be an afterthought a few years down the line.

In the meantime Witter has his own challenge from Gavin Rees so why not take him on? Both are currently #1 and #2 in the UK at the weight. Surely a fight should be made? Or is it that simple.

DG, they are all full time boxers at The Phoenix. No one owes anyone a payday in boxing and Witter has a title and an impressive scalps, let him go and get the money.

Sold out venues would be a good start and again his fans need to jump on coaches and support him. How many on here were at the Harris fight? Bigger crowds, bigger venues would make for the money you feel the sport owes him. Hatton played the PR game as many have pointed out and is reaping the rewards, Witter did not or could not and the pay packets reflect this. You are only owed what you sow.
Its a little presumptous that Hatton will be tied up for 2-3 fights after Mayweather. If he wins or comes close then yes he will be tied up. What if he losses and doesn't look impressive? What is Hattons best option then? Rebuilding fights? Fight the loser of Mosley-Cotto? Fight Witter? Fight the easiest belt holder at 140? Or fight Witter?

As for Witter-Rees - that would be a nice easy unification but are we naive enough to believe Warren just hands over the WBA belt to Witter?
It's not really. Two fights at least are on the horizon but one close result in either and it goes to three and beyond. There is no room for Witter right now and the penny has dropped for Junior.

He should go for Torres, that was my first thought at the end of the fight. Torres actually deserved the win against Holt. The stoppage was not the worst I have seen.

So if Ricky gets beat from pillar to post or loses a 120-108 type decision you think he has 2-3 fights tied up? I don't

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Sep 2007, 07:20

I wouldn't let Witter fight Torres in Columbia, he'd have to knock him out to get a draw

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 07:27

I hope Hatton-DLH is not a done deal for his next fight. DLH's 2-3 in his last 5 fights and one of those 2 wins was an absolute gift (against Sturm).

Hatton-DLH is solely a money-making exercise, its like when Calzaghe was targetting Taylor for the extra money when he should have been after the proper fight in Kessler, but Hatton-DLH is far far far worse

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 13 Sep 2007, 09:53

Witter is doing his thing and he will get fights and make his own way.

I doubt anyone at 140 beats Witter, best bet is Maliginnnnaaggii and that is because he can move a lot.

Allk others get beaten.

Do not worry about Hatton, he only cares about the money and good luck to him. British Boxing will forever know him as the man who got battered in his fight against the only in form prime fighter he fought, PBF.

Remember,

WITTER the WBC Champion who did not DESERVE a payday.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Sep 2007, 09:59

Terry D wrote:Yes I do believe that Hatton is tied-up for at least two fights. Possibly more unless the Mayweather fight is clear on one side or the other.

Witter has moved on and is clearly targeting other fights, there are fights to be made rather than waiting in hope that Hatton will be there after December. That is regression not progression.

I'm not saying Witter should stop fighting and wait for Ricky, I'm saying Ricky should fight (or should have fought) Junior Witter.

Juniors quite rightly targeting other fights, but Rickys the fight he wants most. For the past 5 years hes done everything in his capabilities do get the fight on, I think hes just more bored than I am of chasing the fight

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 13 Sep 2007, 11:23

jimmy the gent wrote:In regards to the Hatton-Witter saga that has been going on for far to long, and it is not my intention to add to this, but i just wanted to clear the reason up as to why hatton refuses to fight witter.

I know that now witter is not a big enough name in america so i suppose financially it is not exactly a massive fight in america, but four years ago it would have been massive over here and still would be. Now i have been and still am a big fan of hatton since the first time i seen him fight in his second pro fight, infact so much so that i adopted a lot of his body punching, side-to-side style into my own style.

Because of where hatton is based and the type of people that he moves with(a lot of pub-going football supporters who love to support there own) allegedly allegedly was able to exploit that and ease him into world class(being paid very well on the way up), unlike witter who was never marketed the way hatton was, thus had to travel the length and breadth of the country to get paid, and was never able to build up that kind of support.

The point i am making as a fellow professional is that hatton knows how hard it is for the majority of professionals in this one of, if not the hardest sport in the world to make a decent living, and for him to say that he wont fight witter because he doesn't want to give him a decent pay day, and that he enjoys seeing him squirm in small hall events is a bit of a liberty to a fellow pro.

I assume he is saying this because he feels that witter has been bad-mouthing him over the years. but yet fights mayweather whose bad mouthed him far worse than witter ever has. what if de la hoya turned round and said eff off to mayweather, vargas and mayorga for the abuse that he took, and denied them the biggest pay day of there career. Boxers verbally abuse other boxers all the time, it's nothing new.

This fight should have happened when hatton was fighting fighters like; mike stewart,s smith, pederson, rios, vilches and oliveira. Witter is a wbc world champion and deserves to be treated as such and respected, after all he hasn't said anything particularly nasty to hatton.

Even though respect to both Hatton and Witter, both class acts in the ring.

Paragraphs are your friend.

jimmy the gent · Post by **jimmy the gent** » 13 Sep 2007, 12:52

Yes MIKEE, i'll try to remember next time.
Lenny hit the nail on the head as to what my original post was trying to get at.
Hatton-Witter should have happened 4 or 5 years ago before they both reached such high standards that we did not know or was not sure they would reach. I would not say that hatton was scared of witter, but certainly wary of such a fighter (who wouldn't be), that could have been the one hurdle that tripped him up, so in his mind and especially warren's mind, why take the chance. I just don't like the reason as to why he didn't fight him.
I do believe that after hatton fights mayweather, win or lose he should have one more top fight whether it be cotto or ODLH then retire. He's been in too many wars and his chances of beating a witter now are becoming slimmer and slimmer. Back then i would have given hatton as much as 75%-25% the longer his career goes on it's looking more 50-50 as witter seems to be getting better with age and experience.
What i will say though is that history will look back on this, and want to know why this fight did not happen, as there was such high demand for it and they were both under the same promoter at the time. And the finger unfortunately will be pointed at hatton. sad but true.

is Hatton being a hypocrite?

is Hatton being a hypocrite?

Re: is Hatton being a hypocrite?

Re: is Hatton being a hypocrite?