Nov. 8, 1991 - Holyfield v. Tyson - Who would have won?

[streetsaresafer]

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Tyson would stop Holyfield early? I don't see that at all. I'm not sure any fighter could stop Holyfield early, but Tyson sure isn't one of them. Tyson landed a couple of flush shots on Holyfield but couldn't even knock him down, let alone out. Holyfield was never hurt for more than a few seconds from the couple of big shots Tyson did manage to land. Evander had a great chin.

Agreed.

I don't know how anybody could reasonbly expect that the 1991 Tyson could have stopped Holyfield early.

I doubt even the 1986 Tyson could have; Holyfield was just too tough.

[markl]

He wouldn't knock him out period. Unless the 89 Tyson fought Evander now. He would still last a few rounds.

This is a good site and has a lot of excellent posters.

But a few love to throw around the ko word like it means nothing.

Hagler ko'd by Valdez, Duran ko'd by Cuevas.

Like years of ring wars just go right out the window in a discussion.

At his best I can't think of anybody that I would be comfortable saying knocks out Holyfield.

It's not inconcievable as it has happened. But it would be a surprise and it would never be from Tyson.

Louis,Liston & maybe Foreman.

Holyfield/Frazier would be my #1 alltime dream fight. Somebody might drop late from the brutality there.

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He wouldn't knock him out period. Unless the 89 Tyson fought Evander now. He would still last a few rounds.

This is a good site and has a lot of excellent posters.

But a few love to throw around the ko word like it means nothing.

Hagler ko'd by Valdez, Duran ko'd by Cuevas.

Like years of ring wars just go right out the window in a discussion.

At his best I can't think of anybody that I would be comfortable saying knocks out Holyfield.

It's not inconcievable as it has happened. But it would be a surprise and it would never be from Tyson.

Louis,Liston & maybe Foreman.

Holyfield/Frazier would be my #1 alltime dream fight. Somebody might drop late from the brutality there.

How could anybody in their right mind predict a KO defeat for Hagler; a man who as an ageing fighter, took on some of the hardest punching fighters in history & did not even blink?

I simply refuse to accept that ANY middleweight would have KO'd Hagler during the course of a normal boxing match.

[dr_devious]

I agree with you Syntax, no MW in history stops Hagler

[Brute]

Getting back to the original question, in 1991 Tyson was ex-champion of two years standing. Holyfield had gone undefeated through the Cruiserweight division, KOed the man who KOed Tyson and defended the title.

I think Evander would have to be the logical choice.

[Sweet P]

3 biggest missed heavweight fights of the 90s
1. 1991 - Holyfield v. Tyson
2. 1993 - Bowe v. Lewis
3. 1996 - Lewis v. Tyson

Absolutely agreed. This is how I see those fights going:

1991: Holyfield TKO12 Tyson - much closer fight, but Holy is too tough and determined, and has taken over by the end.
1993: Bowe TKO3 Lewis - Definitely the hardest to call. This version of Bowe is better than anyone Lewis ever faced. Prime for prime, I think Lewis wins, but a younger Lewis was easier to hit and would likely have been hurt and put down by Bowe. Bowe's defense was bad though, so an early to mid rounds TKO either way is a realistic outcome.
1996: Lewis KO8 Tyson - Same result as their real fight, but much closer. Tyson takes 2-3 rounds and hurts Lewis at some point, but Lewis fights a smart, cautious fight and eventually stops Tyson.

I disagree Jezza, Lewis beats Bowe at any time in there careers imo.

[Robinson]

streetsaresafer,

Thanks for the post mate, thats a pretty damned good synopsis.

I like Holyfield from that era, his punch rate was excellent and he was always in a 'peak' shape. I think the Tyson pre-jail that faced Ruddock was still a damned incredible animal and like those above have said, the Buster loss made him more of a danger as it 'humbled' him.

I think when Holyfield beat tyson in 1996 he faced a head hunting one shot monster of myth, as opposed to the fast moving, combo punching animal that even existed in 1991.

Sure the 1996 Holyfield was 'shot' and battle worn, but he also had the under dog status that had every one in the Tyson camp telling there man "not to worry about him, he's finished' and this has to have an effect on ones training.

I see a 1991 match going either way to be honest. Both men are not far away from an epic loss or a career defining win at this point in history. Its ashame that Tyson's character and fate intervened.

Kym

[BO Selecta]

streetsaresafer,

Thanks for the post mate, thats a pretty damned good synopsis.

I like Holyfield from that era, his punch rate was excellent and he was always in a 'peak' shape. I think the Tyson pre-jail that faced Ruddock was still a damned incredible animal and like those above have said, the Buster loss made him more of a danger as it 'humbled' him.

I think when Holyfield beat tyson in 1996 he faced a head hunting one shot monster of myth, as opposed to the fast moving, combo punching animal that even existed in 1991.

Sure the 1996 Holyfield was 'shot' and battle worn, but he also had the under dog status that had every one in the Tyson camp telling there man "not to worry about him, he's finished' and this has to have an effect on ones training.

I see a 1991 match going either way to be honest. Both men are not far away from an epic loss or a career defining win at this point in history. Its ashame that Tyson's character and fate intervened.

Kym

A few previous posters have said this, but Tyson in 1991 was not combination punching anymore.

The 2 fights he had with Razor that year will show you that the combination punching had gone.

I think his trainer was Richie Giachetti at the time & he was imploring Tyson to throw combos to no avail.

Tyson was mostly throwing single shots & he was fortunate that Ruddock was equally one dimensional or Tyson would have been beaten.

Also remember that Tyson was not moving his head anymore either.

There is no way that a peak Holyfield would have stood in front of Tyson trading single heavy shots the way Ruddock did.

Holyfield would have been bouncing around the ring & peppering Tyson with punches. He would have put Tyson under huge pressure & we all know what happened to Tyson when he was put under pressure? He folded like a newspaper & that's how I would have seen a 1991 fight with Evander going.

The result would have been pretty similar to the 1996 battle.

Tyson had a great chin, so he would not have been sparked cheaply, so Holyfield would have worn him down, sapped his stamina (which was not great) & stopped him around about the 10th round.

I honestly think that people forget that this is a real time fantasy fight & not a prime v prime battle.

Tyson was at his best between 1986 & 1989. He was a different beast in 1991.

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streetsaresafer,

Thanks for the post mate, thats a pretty damned good synopsis.

I like Holyfield from that era, his punch rate was excellent and he was always in a 'peak' shape. I think the Tyson pre-jail that faced Ruddock was still a damned incredible animal and like those above have said, the Buster loss made him more of a danger as it 'humbled' him.

I think when Holyfield beat tyson in 1996 he faced a head hunting one shot monster of myth, as opposed to the fast moving, combo punching animal that even existed in 1991.

Sure the 1996 Holyfield was 'shot' and battle worn, but he also had the under dog status that had every one in the Tyson camp telling there man "not to worry about him, he's finished' and this has to have an effect on ones training.

I see a 1991 match going either way to be honest. Both men are not far away from an epic loss or a career defining win at this point in history. Its ashame that Tyson's character and fate intervened.

Kym

A few previous posters have said this, but Tyson in 1991 was not combination punching anymore.

The 2 fights he had with Razor that year will show you that the combination punching had gone.

I think his trainer was Richie Giachetti at the time & he was imploring Tyson to throw combos to no avail.

Tyson was mostly throwing single shots & he was fortunate that Ruddock was equally one dimensional or Tyson would have been beaten.

Also remember that Tyson was not moving his head anymore either.

There is no way that a peak Holyfield would have stood in front of Tyson trading single heavy shots the way Ruddock did.

Holyfield would have been bouncing around the ring & peppering Tyson with punches. He would have put Tyson under huge pressure & we all know what happened to Tyson when he was put under pressure? He folded like a newspaper & that's how I would have seen a 1991 fight with Evander going.

The result would have been pretty similar to the 1996 battle.

Tyson had a great chin, so he would not have been sparked cheaply, so Holyfield would have worn him down, sapped his stamina (which was not great) & stopped him around about the 10th round.

I honestly think that people forget that this is a real time fantasy fight & not a prime v prime battle.

Tyson was at his best between 1986 & 1989. He was a different beast in 1991.

Brilliantly put Mr Cantona.

You've summed it up perfectly.

You need to post on here more often!!!

[p4p1]

As much as I am not a Tyson fan. I think it was more King that was afraid of Holyfield & Foreman.

We saw in 1996 why they avoided Evander. But foreman/Tyson would have been by far the richest fight in boxing history & I never heard it come out of King or Tyson's lips.

George talked about it a lot.

talk about fights that would of been god to watch if tyson didnt give up... which i dont think he did around this time it had the making 2 be a war maybe better than holyfield/foreman imagine those two standing infront of each other throwing bomb dont no who would win this fight but im leaning towards george bein just that bit to smart for him an in noway intimidated but i think it would be close

[Robinson]

Agreed Tyson was a lot less active as a puncher by that time, and his defence was by far removed from what it was.

I suppose in the case of the Ruddock fights and even against Buster, he was a little like Patterosn towards the end of his career. A spurt fighter, where he would throw a blast of combos in frequently almost as a glimpse at his glorious past.

Good points though mate

Kym

[streetsaresafer]

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[streetsaresafer]

Good points - seems like Holyfield is a pretty big winner in the poll.

[MTLefthook]

All good points but disappointed in the final analysis. I still believe that Tyson wins in ‘91. Just for the reasons that was stated. Holyfield fought with more risk taking in his prime. Tyson looked fierce again in stopping Stewart in 1 and dominating a fresh prime always dangerous Ruddock. Especially in the first one. I believe that Tyson beats the best version of Douglas and the 1991 Holyfield. For some reason these days. Boxing fans and so called experts seem to scrutinize Tyson more for his losses that other greats that lost. Idk why so. But there are several myths about Mike Tyson that are said about him nowadays. The bully factor is one for example. While it is true that several fighters were very scared of Tyson. For example Smith, Spinks, Tillman, plus earlier fights when he was coming up. But in truth when Tyson was fighting for the title. Berbick, Thomas , Tucker, Biggs, Holmes even though he was past his prime but not shot, Tubbs. Those fighters all tried to beat Tyson in one way or the other. Whether trying to box or fight back hard. Berbick came out swinging heavy shots, Pinklon Thomas won some rounds and landed some heavy shots. Tyson beat them all easily for the most part. The Bruno in the first fight csme out fighting hard as did Williams. Leading up to the Douglas fight Tyson was woefully unprepared and looked like he was somewhere else from the ring entrance to the end. Even in that he almost knocked Douglas out! Then in the comeback Ruddock tried to take Tyson’s head off. Tyson had a granite chin that wasn’t tslked about much either.

[gilgamesh]

All good points but disappointed in the final analysis. I still believe that Tyson wins in ‘91. Just for the reasons that was stated. Holyfield fought with more risk taking in his prime. Tyson looked fierce again in stopping Stewart in 1 and dominating a fresh prime always dangerous Ruddock. Especially in the first one. I believe that Tyson beats the best version of Douglas and the 1991 Holyfield. For some reason these days. Boxing fans and so called experts seem to scrutinize Tyson more for his losses that other greats that lost. Idk why so. But there are several myths about Mike Tyson that are said about him nowadays. The bully factor is one for example. While it is true that several fighters were very scared of Tyson. For example Smith, Spinks, Tillman, plus earlier fights when he was coming up. But in truth when Tyson was fighting for the title. Berbick, Thomas , Tucker, Biggs, Holmes even though he was past his prime but not shot, Tubbs. Those fighters all tried to beat Tyson in one way or the other. Whether trying to box or fight back hard. Berbick came out swinging heavy shots, Pinklon Thomas won some rounds and landed some heavy shots. Tyson beat them all easily for the most part. The Bruno in the first fight csme out fighting hard as did Williams. Leading up to the Douglas fight Tyson was woefully unprepared and looked like he was somewhere else from the ring entrance to the end. Even in that he almost knocked Douglas out! Then in the comeback Ruddock tried to take Tyson’s head off. Tyson had a granite chin that wasn’t tslked about much either.

I think Tyson gets scrutinized more for his losses because his losses came against the other guys that were the best of his era.

I don't think Tyson ever beats Holyfield. Whether they would've fought in 1991, 2001, or even now.

[goose 5]

Holyfield would have stopped him in November 1991 and also in June 1990.

[DrDuke]

Holyfield KO Tyson anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

[MTLefthook]

Holyfield would have stopped him in November 1991 and also in June 1990.

Disagree, Tyson at that time was faster and was attacking the body more ferociously than even in his absolute peak from 86-88. Even when they dud fight later on. Watch the 5th round. Tyson’s body attack had Holyfield in a lot of trouble but didn’t stick with it. One punch of Tyson’s that’s been overlooked was his right hook to the body not just the left hook. It was a devastating shot. I believe if he just kept softening Holyfield up with that for 3 more rounds he may have stopped him. But he basically went back to head hunting. After prison Tyson became more of a clubbing puncher for the most part and wasn’t as fast handed as before. He lost some of the snap on his shots.

[adislav123]

To say tyson could never have beaten is just dumb.

It's still a matter of inches & split seconds over & over for 12 rounds in a fight with a knockout puncher if you survive/beat him or you go to sleep.

It would've been a hell of a fight at any date but to assume tyson just never was capable of beating/catch clean/k.o holy is in reality nonsense.

[Onetimeonly]

Holyfield would have stopped him in November 1991 and also in June 1990.

Disagree, Tyson at that time was faster and was attacking the body more ferociously than even in his absolute peak from 86-88. Even when they dud fight later on. Watch the 5th round. Tyson’s body attack had Holyfield in a lot of trouble but didn’t stick with it. One punch of Tyson’s that’s been overlooked was his right hook to the body not just the left hook. It was a devastating shot. I believe if he just kept softening Holyfield up with that for 3 more rounds he may have stopped him. But he basically went back to head hunting. After prison Tyson became more of a clubbing puncher for the most part and wasn’t as fast handed as before. He lost some of the snap on his shots.

Tyson was a mediocre in fighter.

[pound per pound]

Tyson would have won in 1991. The post prison Tyson wasn't nearly as good,

[BoxBuzz]

I agree with my 2007 self. Hmm....maybe I'm not getting any smarter after all.

[Onamastus]

Tyson would have won in 1991. The post prison Tyson wasn't nearly as good,

We can see plenty of 1991 Tyson in the Ruddock fights. He's still good enough to knock around brutes but too power mad and one dimensional to beat Holyfield who was clever and had a steel chin.

[Chuck1052]

I often wondered what would have happened to Mike Tyson if one of his managers, Jimmy Jacobs, had not passed away during 1980. Tyson and Jacobs appeared to have a lot of rapport with each other. With Jacobs in the picture, Tyson was in a relatively stable situation and was being trained by Kevin Rooney. Whatever one thinks of Rooney, he made Tyson toe the mark, making him fully ready to fight in a bout in the process.

Tyson and his other manager at the time, Bill Cayton, didn't have much rapport with each other, which may have led to them going their separate ways. In addition, Tyson parted with Rooney. Afterwards, Tyson didn't seem fully prepared in many of his bouts.

- Chuck Johnston