does naseem hamed belong in the hall of fame?

oldwarrior · Post by **oldwarrior** » 18 Sep 2007, 09:52

it's been five years since hamed's last fight. no knock but being in jail for the past couple of years and considering his age of 34, perhaps he should call it a career.

should the "naz" be elected into boxing's hall of fame?

pros:

defended wbo title 16 times
36-1 lifetime record 31 kos
great handspeed and punching power
held wbo title for over 4 years

cons:

fought handpicked opposition for most of his career
name fighters were old and over the hill
lost to barrera in perhaps most defining fight

intangibles:

how would he have done against morales, pacquiao, marquez and other top named fighters?

chime in with your thoughts and comments

oldwarrior

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 09:57

I was never a fan... but I say yes, he should one day be in the hall of fame. I'm not saying he should go in his first year of eligibility but he's got quite the resume to get him in.

8 wins over former world champions not including the wins over previous title challengers.

Former world champions he beat were quite impressive...
Vuyani Bungu
Cesar Soto
Paul Ingle
Wayne McCullough
Wilfredo Vazquez
Kevin Kelley
Tom Johnson
Manuel Medina

The Boxing Enthusiast · Post by **The Boxing Enthusiast** » 18 Sep 2007, 09:58

No.

IMO,
TBE

NYY2424 · Post by **NYY2424** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:08

dont think so!

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:11

Does Barry McGuigan belong in the HOF? If Barry does, Naz does as well.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:12

npal wrote:Does Barry McGuigan belong in the HOF? If Barry does, Naz does as well.

lol theres the rub - Barry doesnt really, but he is.. and that will be the argument.

They should have drawn a line in the sand, but not with Mcguigan

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:14

MIKEE wrote:
npal wrote:Does Barry McGuigan belong in the HOF? If Barry does, Naz does as well.
lol theres the rub - Barry doesnt really, but he is.. and that will be the argument.

They should have drawn a line in the sand, but not with Mcguigan

He is though. Now if Barry is, why shouldn't Naz? Barry's best wins were over Pedroza & LaPorte. Great wins, but that's really about it. Naz has a much more impressive resume outside of those 2 fights. The only reason I can think of was Barry's political impact.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:16

they should have left it for true world champs, and those later fighters who were compellingly the best of their division for at least 4-5 years

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:17

Has anyone mentioned McGuigan?

Hamed will, and should get in. I don't think that there's much doubt about it. He won all the titles at his weight, aside from the WBA which Vazquez held up to his fight with Hamed. He beat all the other champions at his weight in very convincing fashion, and beat some other very credible challengers.

Not too many all time greats on his record, but he can hardly be blamed for the fact that they were at the weight below for all but the very end of his reign. He's a dead cert, despite the fact he's a twat.

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:18

glittermonkey wrote:Has anyone mentioned McGuigan?

Umm... I think I did.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:21

npal wrote:
glittermonkey wrote:Has anyone mentioned McGuigan?
Umm... I think I did.

I knew someone would have. It's become the standard answer to "does [fighter A] belong in the HOF" questions.

jujigatame · Post by **jujigatame** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:25

Well I think this just goes back to the question, should a HOF bid be based on solely in-ring talents and accomplishments, or should fan appeal and popularity be a factor as well? Surely Hamed had a better career than McGuigan overall and was a better fighter, but he's also a notorious douchebag (and now a convicted criminal) whereas McGuigan was a huge fan favorite and an ambassador to the sport.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:51

Yes, on both in-ring accomplishments and out-of-ring considerations.

His record speaks for itself IMO. He only became a hate figure after he quit, and while he was fighting he was a MASSIVE draw who brought a lot of new fans to the sport.

JDGAFFLIN · Post by **JDGAFFLIN** » 18 Sep 2007, 11:11

Yes. If only becasue he brought the million dollar payday featherweight.

If you look at the resume, it suprisingly isn't that bad.

thismodernlove · Post by **thismodernlove** » 18 Sep 2007, 12:21

yes, because he was one of boxings biggest stars of the 90s (IN FACT he was probably boxings biggest star south of 135 lbs of the 90s) also he has huge wins over Vuyani Bungu, Kevin Kelley (great fight), and Wayne McCullough.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 18 Sep 2007, 12:24

McGuigan also stopped undefeated lightning fast southpaw Bernard Taylor, who got a draw against Pedroza. I would like to have seen McGuigan do more, but for a short career his resume was pretty good.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 18 Sep 2007, 12:58

McGuigan is a borderline Hall of Famer. He isn't the worst guy in the Hall of Fame. As mentioned, he had a few nice wins.

There have been a few fighters elected whom are no more deserving than Hamed. However, two wrongs don't make a right. It would just make things worse by putting in more undeserving fighters.
Hamed doesn't have much of a case at all. His wins over "champion's" isn't that impressive at all. Vasquez was way over the hill when Hamed beat him. Kelly and Johnson were past their best when Hamed beat them as well. Medina,Ingle, and Bungu weren't that good. Soto was a mediocre fighter who should have won by disqualifaction against Hamed.

Against Barerra, who was by far the best opponent that Hamed fought, he was beaten convincingly. Morales, Pacquio and Marquez would have done the same. McGuigan for that matter, probably would have beaten Hamed.

Hamed doesn't have much a case for getting into the Hall of Fame.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 18 Sep 2007, 13:15

should the "naz" be elected into boxing's hall of fame?

Nope......

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:22

Nope!!...He was not that good of a fighter.

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:25

kikibalt wrote:Nope!!...He was not that good of a fighter.

Good fighter or not, he was effective and took out quite a few champions.

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:41

Vuyani Bungu (Naz KO4) -- Bungu prior to this bout was reigning IBF champion and had made 13 title defenses of that IBF crown with wins over Romero, Salud and McKinney twice to mention only a few. No defeats 8 years prior.
Cesar Soto (Naz WUD12) -- Soto was reigning WBC champion coming off a win over Luisito Espinosa (who at the time was still making waves.)
Paul Ingle (Naz TKO11) -- This is probably the weakest of former champions Naz defeated. However, prior to this Ingle was undefeated and after the Naz fight, Ingle went on to beat Manuel Medina and Junior Jones.
Wayne McCullough (Naz WUD12) -- Only one man had beaten McCullough prior to Naz and that was Zaragoza. Former WBC champion with an iron chin. I don't expect anyone to knock out a prime McCullough.
Wilfredo Vazquez (Naz TKO7) -- Vazquez prior to this bout was the reigning WBA champion with 3 successful defenses.
Kevin Kelley (Naz KO4) -- Former WBC champ. Not a prime Kevin Kelley but a Kevin Kelley who still had a big spark left.
Tom Johnson (Naz TKO8) -- Reigning IBF champion with 11 defenses under his belt.
Manuel Medina (Naz TKO11) -- What is this guy, a 4 time champion? I don't need to say too much more about Medina.

As you can see all of these fighters were at the top of their divisions when they were all derailed (some ruined) by Naz. They weren't as some put it "past their best days." They were within their best days and most were still champions or became champions after this. This isn't including the other decent fighters Naz beat who didn't quite become world champions.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:49

Yes....His "FAME" alone qualifys him. But his accomplishments should land him there as well. Not a top seed but certainly in the mid mainstream.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:50

i dont think he does. the only time he fought a 50/50 fight he lost poorly and i think mentally quit the sport.
mcguigan would have pounded him into submission or more likely ko as hamed hit the canvas on a few occasions. but barry only just scrapes in IMO. the win over taylor was barry at his best.

PS i cant stand naseem hamed

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 18 Sep 2007, 15:52

I still say that he was not that good of a fighter, none of those fighters mentioned above were great champions, much less HOF themselves.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 18 Sep 2007, 16:49

Thats pretty much what I think. The guys list were mostly alphabet soup beltholders, not real champions.

Bungu- Decent fighter but he was past his best.
Soto-Stiff. Hamed should have been disqualified for bodyslamming him anyway.
Ingle-Ok, nothing special.
McCullough-Good fighter at 118, but fought Hamed at 126.
Vasquez-A very good fighter, but he was 38 when he fought Hamed.
Kelly-Was good but not great. Was on the downhill slide when he fought Hamed.
Johnson-was 32, which is old at this weight when he fought Hamed. He lost 5 of his next 8 after fighting Hamed.
Medina-Never that good. When he fought Hamed, he had lost 4 fights in the last 3 years. After fighting Hamed, he lost 2 of his next 3.

None of these guys were close to Barerra,Morales,Pacquiao or even Marquez.

When Hamed finally did step up and fight a great fighter who wasn't old, he got beat decisively. Instead of regrouping, he fought one more no name and quit. He didn't have the guts to fight Barrera again, or Morales or Pacquiao.
No way is he a legitimate Hall of Famer.