Lennox Lewis Overrated?

markl · Post by **markl** » 24 Sep 2007, 21:39

TamTam wrote:
Decagon wrote:But Lewis didn't fight someone on the level of a Norton, a Shavers, a Witherspoon... At least not in his prime.
In 1999, Evander Holyfield was a better fighter than those three. Without question.

Hell, Ruddock wasn't all that inferior to Shavers or Witherspoon either and David Tua was better than Shavers, IMO.

Tua sucked. Anyone that is completely dominated by Rahman twice and has to cheat to win and get a dubious decision in the other one is not better then Shavers.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Sep 2007, 00:30

Shavers was a better boxer and more dangerous than Tua. Yes Tua had a better chin but was far easier to outbox.

The 37 year old Evander, who got a gift vs Ruiz his next fight, better than Norton and a prime Witherspoon? I don't think so.

Razor Ruddock didn't even have a left jab. I'm not sure the Witherspoon of 1992 doesn't beat Ruddock.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 25 Sep 2007, 07:48

I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that Holmes fought better opposition than Lewis. I personally think Lewis fought better but thats just my opinion.

The problem with Lewis was he wasn't an exciting character. He was a polite, quiet and intelligent person, who didn't shout his mouth off or get into street brawls. The fact he was a Canadian/Brit mix also meant he wasn't particularly liked by the yanks and also some brits.

He wasn't always the most exciting to watch yet I still think when he was up for the fight and prepared he could beat ANY fighter past or present. He had all the physical tools, power and boxing ability to give anyone a tough fight.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 25 Sep 2007, 07:50

Decagon wrote:But Lewis didn't fight someone on the level of a Norton, a Shavers, a Witherspoon... At least not in his prime.

And Holmes didn't fight anyone on the level of Holyfield......

TamTam · Post by **TamTam** » 25 Sep 2007, 08:00

markl wrote:
TamTam wrote:
Decagon wrote:But Lewis didn't fight someone on the level of a Norton, a Shavers, a Witherspoon... At least not in his prime.
In 1999, Evander Holyfield was a better fighter than those three. Without question.

Hell, Ruddock wasn't all that inferior to Shavers or Witherspoon either and David Tua was better than Shavers, IMO.
Tua sucked. Anyone that is completely dominated by Rahman twice and has to cheat to win and get a dubious decision in the other one is not better then Shavers.

Yeah, I mean...being beaten (not even one time mind you) by Hasim Rahman, is just farrr worse than the plethora of losses that Earnie Shavers suffered in his career.

Work harder.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 25 Sep 2007, 08:18

TamTam wrote:
markl wrote:
TamTam wrote: In 1999, Evander Holyfield was a better fighter than those three. Without question.

Hell, Ruddock wasn't all that inferior to Shavers or Witherspoon either and David Tua was better than Shavers, IMO.
Tua sucked. Anyone that is completely dominated by Rahman twice and has to cheat to win and get a dubious decision in the other one is not better then Shavers.
Yeah, I mean...being beaten (not even one time mind you) by Hasim Rahman, is just farrr worse than the plethora of losses that Earnie Shavers suffered in his career.

Work harder.

I think Shavers has got a mythical status in the heavyweight division. He was argubly the hardest puncher ever....but he wasn't a particulaly good fighter. He had poor stamina, was slow and didn't have a great chin. He gets rated higher than he really should.

Even Norton gets rated higher than he should. He was a fairly good fighter but is mainly known for his fights against Ali. Who else did Norton beat, Jerry Quarry who was near the end of his career anyway.

Holmes had split decision wins over Norton and Witherspoon and Carl Williams, who after just 16 fights, was only 1 point behind Holmes on one scorecard.

If you look through Holmes title record he didn't fight many great fighters, title fights against Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, a shot Ali and Lorenzo Zanon.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:41

Controversial wrote:
TamTam wrote:
markl wrote: Tua sucked. Anyone that is completely dominated by Rahman twice and has to cheat to win and get a dubious decision in the other one is not better then Shavers.
Yeah, I mean...being beaten (not even one time mind you) by Hasim Rahman, is just farrr worse than the plethora of losses that Earnie Shavers suffered in his career.

Work harder.
I think Shavers has got a mythical status in the heavyweight division. He was argubly the hardest puncher ever....but he wasn't a particulaly good fighter. He had poor stamina, was slow and didn't have a great chin. He gets rated higher than he really should.

Even Norton gets rated higher than he should. He was a fairly good fighter but is mainly known for his fights against Ali. Who else did Norton beat, Jerry Quarry who was near the end of his career anyway.

Holmes had split decision wins over Norton and Witherspoon and Carl Williams, who after just 16 fights, was only 1 point behind Holmes on one scorecard.

If you look through Holmes title record he didn't fight many great fighters, title fights against Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, a shot Ali and Lorenzo Zanon.

Compared to a shot Tyson, Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, and Ziejo Mavoric?

You can always take out the weak challengers in a title reign to make a fighter look bad.

Compared to Rahman Shavers was a speed demon.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 25 Sep 2007, 12:51

dempseyfire wrote:
Controversial wrote:
TamTam wrote: Yeah, I mean...being beaten (not even one time mind you) by Hasim Rahman, is just farrr worse than the plethora of losses that Earnie Shavers suffered in his career.

Work harder.
I think Shavers has got a mythical status in the heavyweight division. He was argubly the hardest puncher ever....but he wasn't a particulaly good fighter. He had poor stamina, was slow and didn't have a great chin. He gets rated higher than he really should.

Even Norton gets rated higher than he should. He was a fairly good fighter but is mainly known for his fights against Ali. Who else did Norton beat, Jerry Quarry who was near the end of his career anyway.

Holmes had split decision wins over Norton and Witherspoon and Carl Williams, who after just 16 fights, was only 1 point behind Holmes on one scorecard.

If you look through Holmes title record he didn't fight many great fighters, title fights against Scott Frank, Lucien Rodriguez, a shot Ali and Lorenzo Zanon.
Compared to a shot Tyson, Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, and Ziejo Mavoric?

You can always take out the weak challengers in a title reign to make a fighter look bad.

Compared to Rahman Shavers was a speed demon.

All fighters have weak opponents however my point is Holmes fought weaker competetion than Lews, thats all. Yes Grant, Akinwande and Mavoric might not be the greatest fighters ever but they were all undefeated with more fights under their belts than Bey, Ocasio and several other of Holmes opponents.

If Lorenzo Zanon, David Bey, Scott Frank, Alfredo Evangelista and Ocasio deserved title shots then those you name certainly did as well.