Yep, Francis fought the same way he has boxed for the last three or four years. He wasn't in there to win.
Still, he looked as though he'd prepared strategically, if not physically, as he did block a couple of takedowns and defended himself reasonably well on the floor. Just a shame was so fat; how disappointing to see him tap out just because he was knackered.
The presentation of the show was an insult to the intelligence, though. As it's a company show, there was never going to be any independent commentary/analysis. We kept being told how Francis was a "huge puncher", but come on, he hasn't scored a KO since 2001 and even in his prime he wasn't a big puncher. And there was barely a mention of his age and conditioning.
Julius Francis - Cage Rage
-
mickeybeard
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 488
- Joined: 31 Jan 2004, 09:05
The septic commentator was mentioning his cardivascular conditioning (or lack thereof) and age all the time. Granted he avoided calling Julius a fat old bugger, but I don't really blame the bloke for wanting to continue to have a job.
That was the first time I've watched a Cage Rage show - I started watching from the Welerweight title fight. Ian Freeman shilling for the show's sponsors was teeth-grindingly embarassing, but at least he seems comfortable in front of the camera. The two 'hosts' are not exactly naturals are they? Plenty of enthusiasm, but the looked a bit deer-in-headlights whenever the camera cut to them, or they handed back to someone else. And they made little or no sense whenever they talked. I'd leave the hosting to the Machine.
The quality of fighters were not good, all told. It's unfair to compare it to UFC as the budgets must be completely different, but I didn't see anyone that looked like they'd make noise at a world level. I'd be tempeted to say that they should get rid of the 'World' belts and stick to British and European, but I suppose they help sell tickets, and they can use 'World title' fights to bring in faded fighters from other oganisations likes Vitor Belfort.
One thing that struck me is that the promoters must've spent a lot of money making their show look big-time - big screen TVs, raised entrance walkway, dancing girls, the lot. They put on a bunch of domestic level fighters and made it look like a world championship event.
That was the first time I've watched a Cage Rage show - I started watching from the Welerweight title fight. Ian Freeman shilling for the show's sponsors was teeth-grindingly embarassing, but at least he seems comfortable in front of the camera. The two 'hosts' are not exactly naturals are they? Plenty of enthusiasm, but the looked a bit deer-in-headlights whenever the camera cut to them, or they handed back to someone else. And they made little or no sense whenever they talked. I'd leave the hosting to the Machine.
The quality of fighters were not good, all told. It's unfair to compare it to UFC as the budgets must be completely different, but I didn't see anyone that looked like they'd make noise at a world level. I'd be tempeted to say that they should get rid of the 'World' belts and stick to British and European, but I suppose they help sell tickets, and they can use 'World title' fights to bring in faded fighters from other oganisations likes Vitor Belfort.
One thing that struck me is that the promoters must've spent a lot of money making their show look big-time - big screen TVs, raised entrance walkway, dancing girls, the lot. They put on a bunch of domestic level fighters and made it look like a world championship event.
Hi!
Just to let you know fighters are on the internet too, lol!
Yep, I fought Julius saturday night, and feel that I need to point a few things out. Want to find out more about me? Have a look at http://www.teamgaryturner.com. You'll see that I'm a wee bit more than just a domestic fighter! Julius was really up against it.
Many of the fighters on the saturday night show are experienced internationals, so please, show the rest of the guys some respect! (Don't care about myself though, lol, but others aren't on here!) The UFC is a bit of a closed shop, and you will find that many of the fighters on the show are top internationals that can handle anyone on the World stage - not just cage rage - because they do it already.
You'll see from my records that I've fought Matt Skelton, Lee Swaby, trained with and been in the British Kickboxing Team with Pele Reid, fought him many, many times under light continuous kickboxing rules, and was at the side of the mat when he sparked Vitaly Klischko in Bulgaria, and saw Vitaly narrowly beat my British Team Mate Barrington Patterson for the World Title in Kiev. I have the utmost respect for boxers, and the sport of boxing, and cross train in boxing to improve my hands for kickboxing and MMA.
But thats me.
Julius demands a bit more respect - he may have lost interest in boxing, but he had the guts to get into the cage, something no-one does lightly. He deserves your respect for that.
Secondly, he agreed to fight me for his first fight - despite me being World Thai Boxing, Kickboxing, sport ju-jitsu Champion and a veteran of fighting on the World scene for over 20 years. And he knew I am the most skilled I have ever been in.
He had learned some great skills in the clinch specific for MMA, and on the ground he spoiled nicely and was at any moment poised to take the top mount - something I definately didn't want to happen! He was far, far more advanced than I though he would be. He'd done his homework and some good work at that.
Also, he didn't tap out because he was knackered. He tapped out before the ref stopped it - he had no choice. He was pinned on his supporting arms by me, his leg prevented movement against the cage wall, he was stuck there by me - and I was hitting him precisely with left and right hands. He would have been stupid to have taken any more down there.
Who cares about his weight and his look? We train to be fighters, not look like them. I am the fittest I have ever been, despite a couple of love handles, and Julius was in good fitness too. I used loads of tricks to tire him mentally and physically...and still he was there...
As for him not throwing punches - I didn't want him to and didn't let him! As boxers, try to advance on a skilled kicker who can hit any target that you give him long before you enter the range to punch. I confused him and used my kicking to pick him off. I went straight from kicking range to grappling range, didn't want to hang around in the punching range! So that prevented him throwing punches - no point if you know you aren't going to hit!
What made it worse that I have never been better conditioned, technically physically or mentally as good - I really came in, perhaps for the first time in my career, in 100% good shape....I was on top form...
He's also a nice guy thats done lots for the sport - check out the work he does in schools at grass-roots level to get youngsters the opportunity to get involved in boxing early on.
So please be respectful to a fighter like Julius, one who did not turn up for a payday, but instead to test himself in a different sporting arena.
I'm not saying MMA is better than boxing, or vice versa. They are different yet related, as my friend Francois Botha found out in his first K1 match, making him realise he had to learn a completely new sport.
Just my two-penneth!
Best regards,
Smiler
Just to let you know fighters are on the internet too, lol!
Yep, I fought Julius saturday night, and feel that I need to point a few things out. Want to find out more about me? Have a look at http://www.teamgaryturner.com. You'll see that I'm a wee bit more than just a domestic fighter! Julius was really up against it.
Many of the fighters on the saturday night show are experienced internationals, so please, show the rest of the guys some respect! (Don't care about myself though, lol, but others aren't on here!) The UFC is a bit of a closed shop, and you will find that many of the fighters on the show are top internationals that can handle anyone on the World stage - not just cage rage - because they do it already.
You'll see from my records that I've fought Matt Skelton, Lee Swaby, trained with and been in the British Kickboxing Team with Pele Reid, fought him many, many times under light continuous kickboxing rules, and was at the side of the mat when he sparked Vitaly Klischko in Bulgaria, and saw Vitaly narrowly beat my British Team Mate Barrington Patterson for the World Title in Kiev. I have the utmost respect for boxers, and the sport of boxing, and cross train in boxing to improve my hands for kickboxing and MMA.
But thats me.
Julius demands a bit more respect - he may have lost interest in boxing, but he had the guts to get into the cage, something no-one does lightly. He deserves your respect for that.
Secondly, he agreed to fight me for his first fight - despite me being World Thai Boxing, Kickboxing, sport ju-jitsu Champion and a veteran of fighting on the World scene for over 20 years. And he knew I am the most skilled I have ever been in.
He had learned some great skills in the clinch specific for MMA, and on the ground he spoiled nicely and was at any moment poised to take the top mount - something I definately didn't want to happen! He was far, far more advanced than I though he would be. He'd done his homework and some good work at that.
Also, he didn't tap out because he was knackered. He tapped out before the ref stopped it - he had no choice. He was pinned on his supporting arms by me, his leg prevented movement against the cage wall, he was stuck there by me - and I was hitting him precisely with left and right hands. He would have been stupid to have taken any more down there.
Who cares about his weight and his look? We train to be fighters, not look like them. I am the fittest I have ever been, despite a couple of love handles, and Julius was in good fitness too. I used loads of tricks to tire him mentally and physically...and still he was there...
As for him not throwing punches - I didn't want him to and didn't let him! As boxers, try to advance on a skilled kicker who can hit any target that you give him long before you enter the range to punch. I confused him and used my kicking to pick him off. I went straight from kicking range to grappling range, didn't want to hang around in the punching range! So that prevented him throwing punches - no point if you know you aren't going to hit!
What made it worse that I have never been better conditioned, technically physically or mentally as good - I really came in, perhaps for the first time in my career, in 100% good shape....I was on top form...
He's also a nice guy thats done lots for the sport - check out the work he does in schools at grass-roots level to get youngsters the opportunity to get involved in boxing early on.
So please be respectful to a fighter like Julius, one who did not turn up for a payday, but instead to test himself in a different sporting arena.
I'm not saying MMA is better than boxing, or vice versa. They are different yet related, as my friend Francois Botha found out in his first K1 match, making him realise he had to learn a completely new sport.
Just my two-penneth!
Best regards,
Smiler
-
oliverfennell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5564
- Joined: 15 Feb 2007, 06:37
Thanks for the excellent feedback, Gary, and congratulations on the win.
I am not a follower of MMA, so will not pretend my opinions carry any more weight than anyone else who has barely watched it. I can only "say what I see", so I apologise if my comments were/are uninformed. Your explanation of how it finished was most welcome.
However I do know boxing inside-out and it was unfair for the promoters to big up this match as if it was a genuine meeting of boxer v martial artist at the top of their games. Francis has been past his prime for a VERY long time, and the criticism of him failing to throw punches applies to his last 10-15 boxing matches.
However he DID show he'd learned how to grapple and defend and I've praised him for doing so. Whether or not he was genuinely trying to win, only he knows. But it had a lot of similarities with his boxing in the last few years - knowing very well how to look after himself, but not showing much in the way of offence. And his physical shape has been steadily degenerating. The fact he was thrown to the lions, so to speak, against you suggests the promoters knew he wasn't in it for the long haul. It seemed like a case of cashing in on a big name "for one night only", otherwise why not put him in with a journeyman (or MMA equivalent) and help him get on a bit of a run?
Again, I don't wish to run you or Cage Rage or MMA down unfairly, and if my comments are ill-informed, you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge. It WAS a good win for you because Francis DID still pose a danger in the sense that if a 21st man hits you with 4oz gloves, it's over. Also, it was an event which transcended MMA and got you noticed on the wider stage, so that is great for you.
Oh yes, and finally, I absolutely agree Julius is a top, top class bloke. I had the good fortune to enjoy a long drink and chat with him after his fight with Audley and he was a real good guy. I also know all about his community work because he lives in the catchment area of the newspaper I work for and is frequently featured in it. But being a top class human being does not make him immune from criticism over what people pay to see him do.
Anyway, congrats again, Gary, and thanks for taking the time to write to us.
I am not a follower of MMA, so will not pretend my opinions carry any more weight than anyone else who has barely watched it. I can only "say what I see", so I apologise if my comments were/are uninformed. Your explanation of how it finished was most welcome.
However I do know boxing inside-out and it was unfair for the promoters to big up this match as if it was a genuine meeting of boxer v martial artist at the top of their games. Francis has been past his prime for a VERY long time, and the criticism of him failing to throw punches applies to his last 10-15 boxing matches.
However he DID show he'd learned how to grapple and defend and I've praised him for doing so. Whether or not he was genuinely trying to win, only he knows. But it had a lot of similarities with his boxing in the last few years - knowing very well how to look after himself, but not showing much in the way of offence. And his physical shape has been steadily degenerating. The fact he was thrown to the lions, so to speak, against you suggests the promoters knew he wasn't in it for the long haul. It seemed like a case of cashing in on a big name "for one night only", otherwise why not put him in with a journeyman (or MMA equivalent) and help him get on a bit of a run?
Again, I don't wish to run you or Cage Rage or MMA down unfairly, and if my comments are ill-informed, you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge. It WAS a good win for you because Francis DID still pose a danger in the sense that if a 21st man hits you with 4oz gloves, it's over. Also, it was an event which transcended MMA and got you noticed on the wider stage, so that is great for you.
Oh yes, and finally, I absolutely agree Julius is a top, top class bloke. I had the good fortune to enjoy a long drink and chat with him after his fight with Audley and he was a real good guy. I also know all about his community work because he lives in the catchment area of the newspaper I work for and is frequently featured in it. But being a top class human being does not make him immune from criticism over what people pay to see him do.
Anyway, congrats again, Gary, and thanks for taking the time to write to us.
hey smiler
thanks for the post, great stuff and it gives us an insight into other aspects of your profession. you were billed as coming from church crookham, is that where you live. after a long career in the army medical services aldershot and the surrounding areas are like a second home to me, i still weep at the demise of the cambridge military hospital where i did my anaesthetic training.
thanks for the post, great stuff and it gives us an insight into other aspects of your profession. you were billed as coming from church crookham, is that where you live. after a long career in the army medical services aldershot and the surrounding areas are like a second home to me, i still weep at the demise of the cambridge military hospital where i did my anaesthetic training.
Are there any boxers who you think would transfer well to MMA type sports, I know there was talk about tyson fighting Bob Sapp. How about Kermit Citron. Also how much do you think a boxer whould have to learn to compete in your sport?Smiler wrote:Hi!
Just to let you know fighters are on the internet too, lol!
Yep, I fought Julius saturday night, and feel that I need to point a few things out. Want to find out more about me? Have a look at http://www.teamgaryturner.com. You'll see that I'm a wee bit more than just a domestic fighter! Julius was really up against it.
Many of the fighters on the saturday night show are experienced internationals, so please, show the rest of the guys some respect! (Don't care about myself though, lol, but others aren't on here!) The UFC is a bit of a closed shop, and you will find that many of the fighters on the show are top internationals that can handle anyone on the World stage - not just cage rage - because they do it already.
You'll see from my records that I've fought Matt Skelton, Lee Swaby, trained with and been in the British Kickboxing Team with Pele Reid, fought him many, many times under light continuous kickboxing rules, and was at the side of the mat when he sparked Vitaly Klischko in Bulgaria, and saw Vitaly narrowly beat my British Team Mate Barrington Patterson for the World Title in Kiev. I have the utmost respect for boxers, and the sport of boxing, and cross train in boxing to improve my hands for kickboxing and MMA.
But thats me.
Julius demands a bit more respect - he may have lost interest in boxing, but he had the guts to get into the cage, something no-one does lightly. He deserves your respect for that.
Secondly, he agreed to fight me for his first fight - despite me being World Thai Boxing, Kickboxing, sport ju-jitsu Champion and a veteran of fighting on the World scene for over 20 years. And he knew I am the most skilled I have ever been in.
He had learned some great skills in the clinch specific for MMA, and on the ground he spoiled nicely and was at any moment poised to take the top mount - something I definately didn't want to happen! He was far, far more advanced than I though he would be. He'd done his homework and some good work at that.
Also, he didn't tap out because he was knackered. He tapped out before the ref stopped it - he had no choice. He was pinned on his supporting arms by me, his leg prevented movement against the cage wall, he was stuck there by me - and I was hitting him precisely with left and right hands. He would have been stupid to have taken any more down there.
Who cares about his weight and his look? We train to be fighters, not look like them. I am the fittest I have ever been, despite a couple of love handles, and Julius was in good fitness too. I used loads of tricks to tire him mentally and physically...and still he was there...
As for him not throwing punches - I didn't want him to and didn't let him! As boxers, try to advance on a skilled kicker who can hit any target that you give him long before you enter the range to punch. I confused him and used my kicking to pick him off. I went straight from kicking range to grappling range, didn't want to hang around in the punching range! So that prevented him throwing punches - no point if you know you aren't going to hit!
What made it worse that I have never been better conditioned, technically physically or mentally as good - I really came in, perhaps for the first time in my career, in 100% good shape....I was on top form...
He's also a nice guy thats done lots for the sport - check out the work he does in schools at grass-roots level to get youngsters the opportunity to get involved in boxing early on.
So please be respectful to a fighter like Julius, one who did not turn up for a payday, but instead to test himself in a different sporting arena.
I'm not saying MMA is better than boxing, or vice versa. They are different yet related, as my friend Francois Botha found out in his first K1 match, making him realise he had to learn a completely new sport.
Just my two-penneth!
Best regards,
Smiler
Oliver,
My pleasure, and thank you!
As you have seen some MMA, your opinions are as valid as the next persons! Opinions are based on experience, and with that you have commented appropriately. In my forum posts I always try and give a more 'inside track', in order for people to understand matters, especially when they are newer to the sport, giving the appropriate technical input...
In respect to the promoters, they didn't know what Julius would bring - I work closely with them, and they were taking advice as to what Julius was doing, and they were under the impression it would be a good match. They're also still finding out my abilities, as this is my third fight on my return to MMA from kick and Thai boxing, and I don't think they realised how sharp I could be too! In fairness, all journo's were billing it as boxing v MMA, but I've made it clear in interviews that it was definately MMA V MMA...we weren't there to box...
I agree fully on his ground fighting, he'd done much work in spoiling attacks, and being much lighter, if I had gone for a full submission he was ready and waiting to go for a reversal - hence he stopped me going for submitting, as I like managing risks, lol! I didn't fancy him on top of me 'grounding and pounding'! He'd done some good work.
I spoke to him at length after the fight, and as you've found, he's a nice fella! He didn't feel he was thrown to the lions before the fight, but he had underestimated the skills required. This left him lacking in the offensive department a little, as he couldn't answer either the range of my legs, or the close work in the clinch therefore negating any punches he may have tried to throw.
In respect to the show, due to the nature of the sport you will either have a firecracker of a fight, a boring fight full of technical 'in the trade' enjoyment only, or just a plain ol' boring fight! (Although mine was a very accomplished technical win, looking easy but not being easy to make it look easy, it probably fell in the last category!) The show on saturday, with the total exception of the Daley v Weir fight, fell a little flat.
There's so much to MMA, you never know how two fighters will react when placed together...
Perhaps it would have been better to have seen the last show, where the majority of fights were in the 'firecracker' department...
I'm sure I speak for Julius as well on this, and definately for myself, and if criticism or comments are made that aren't patting us on the back we have to listen. You especially put your comments in a respectful and intelligent manner, and for that I am indeed grateful. Maybe you should post on a few MMA forums and show them how to be polite, lol!!!!
Best regards,
Smiler
My pleasure, and thank you!
As you have seen some MMA, your opinions are as valid as the next persons! Opinions are based on experience, and with that you have commented appropriately. In my forum posts I always try and give a more 'inside track', in order for people to understand matters, especially when they are newer to the sport, giving the appropriate technical input...
In respect to the promoters, they didn't know what Julius would bring - I work closely with them, and they were taking advice as to what Julius was doing, and they were under the impression it would be a good match. They're also still finding out my abilities, as this is my third fight on my return to MMA from kick and Thai boxing, and I don't think they realised how sharp I could be too! In fairness, all journo's were billing it as boxing v MMA, but I've made it clear in interviews that it was definately MMA V MMA...we weren't there to box...
I agree fully on his ground fighting, he'd done much work in spoiling attacks, and being much lighter, if I had gone for a full submission he was ready and waiting to go for a reversal - hence he stopped me going for submitting, as I like managing risks, lol! I didn't fancy him on top of me 'grounding and pounding'! He'd done some good work.
I spoke to him at length after the fight, and as you've found, he's a nice fella! He didn't feel he was thrown to the lions before the fight, but he had underestimated the skills required. This left him lacking in the offensive department a little, as he couldn't answer either the range of my legs, or the close work in the clinch therefore negating any punches he may have tried to throw.
In respect to the show, due to the nature of the sport you will either have a firecracker of a fight, a boring fight full of technical 'in the trade' enjoyment only, or just a plain ol' boring fight! (Although mine was a very accomplished technical win, looking easy but not being easy to make it look easy, it probably fell in the last category!) The show on saturday, with the total exception of the Daley v Weir fight, fell a little flat.
There's so much to MMA, you never know how two fighters will react when placed together...
Perhaps it would have been better to have seen the last show, where the majority of fights were in the 'firecracker' department...
I'm sure I speak for Julius as well on this, and definately for myself, and if criticism or comments are made that aren't patting us on the back we have to listen. You especially put your comments in a respectful and intelligent manner, and for that I am indeed grateful. Maybe you should post on a few MMA forums and show them how to be polite, lol!!!!
Best regards,
Smiler
Good luck to you 'Smiler' but the show did MMA few favours on Saturday night with the exception of Daley - who will go a long way
Most people think Julius was an overweight joke who was grossly overmatched.
The quality of the fights were disappointing, Belfort is the equivalent of shot boxer and struggled against a man who was very disappointing as a pro boxer. What would the Belfort who gave Couture nightmares have done to Zidic?
The presentation was abysmal on tellly. From Julius being called Julian, the shocking two spoof presenters and the roving reporter obviously wanting you to win and as good as said he was backing you.
How Sky show Cage Rage and haven't made a play for UFC is beyond me.
Most people think Julius was an overweight joke who was grossly overmatched.
The quality of the fights were disappointing, Belfort is the equivalent of shot boxer and struggled against a man who was very disappointing as a pro boxer. What would the Belfort who gave Couture nightmares have done to Zidic?
The presentation was abysmal on tellly. From Julius being called Julian, the shocking two spoof presenters and the roving reporter obviously wanting you to win and as good as said he was backing you.
How Sky show Cage Rage and haven't made a play for UFC is beyond me.
Rhino - hi!!!
I've lived in Farnborough until moving to Church Crookham 4 years ago, over near the Tweseldown Pub. I use the training areas for running, mountain biking, hill sprints (you'll know the b*stard hill!). I had a nose operation in 1989 at Cambridge Mil, and it was the best A*E around!!! Always went there, even if Frimley Park was closer...
Do you know (I think his rank is right) Brigadier Hopkins? I have so much respect for him, he takes our 'unofficial' instructor medical courses, so we know what to do outside of the St John Ambulance 'just make them safe' courses...as kids my brother broke his neck on the judo mat (fully recovered quickly) and it was Graham Hopkins who recognised it instantly and saved him from paralysis or any other lasting injury...military medical staff are the best!
Hi Josh! Its hard for long term boxers to make the transition to kickboxing, let alone MMA. The reason is that the stance and 'bob and weave' habits of a boxer leave themselves open to receiving leg kicks or putting their heads in the way of kicks and knees. The stance in particular tends to be more side on, therefore the lead leg gets 'eaten up' by kickboxers easily. The old boxing habits need to be removed...and thats hard...also the range of shots is different...kicks are at longer range, knees and punches the same, elbows are even closer...the 'safe, technical, milling zones' of fighting vary due to this. Also the little gloves mean more precise strikes can be thrown, you can hit with different knuckles, the knife edge of the hand, the ridge hand, hammer fist...and the smaller gloves mean there is more gap in a guard...also allow more 'martial' blocking moves that the weight and size of the larger gloves prevent...
Clinch work is different too. Instead of just controlling a body, and looking/stopping punch opportunities, they have to look out for elbows, knees, take downs...its a different set of skills.
Grappling and take downs are just like boxing - easy to learn the basics but take a lifetime to master!
So a boxer would have to make alot of adjustments to their skills in order to compete on a level playing field.
Saying that, mentally they should be there though - a fight is still a fight in respect to mental aspects!
The same goes in reverse also though. Its quite hard to go from kickboxing back to boxing too - the kickboxing stance tends to be too square on, we don't duck and weave enough...the ranges are different...
Mike fighting Bob? That was only publicity. I was there at the event, due to fight on the show, and got to speak with Mike. Despite his immense power, he's really short for a heavyweight, and his legs are too loaded to the floor...he'd be open game for kicks...I was also due to fight Bob Sapp but he chickened out with a few days to go so Tank got up off his bar stool and flew over...
Any good boxer, who is prepared to understand that its a different sport and is prepared to practice and learn the new discipline will do well, needing to work hard on the areas that they lack.
Actually, most MMA fighters have a lot of boxing training, its the best way of learning how to punch for this arena!
Here's something controversial, and the comments are on a 'general' level, as I am sure there are exceptions! In my opinion, alot of boxers train wrong. The trainers do the same as they've always done. For example, look at road work. Science has proven this is a waste of time unless you want to burn some calories, and there are better ways of doing that! Doing a 10mile run trains you to run at a slow steady pace. Fighting is short, sharp, explosive - something more specific may be in order? Plyometrics? Hill sprints? Downhill hill sprints?
And don't get me started on weight training, lol! How many boxers for example do 'traditional' weight training, when sandbags, plyo, core, sledgehammer, 'raw' style resistance training is much more appropriate?
One of the things that MMA has on its side is that the fighters have to master so many disciplines, they look outside their comfort zones, and as a result are always learning, developing etc...everything from conditioning, execution of techniques, flow, strategy etc...and this process will never stop.
I actually see that the rise in popularity of MMA will help boxing leap forward too...from boxers as athletes through to more fans watching. Lets hope so! Because the better you guys get, the better we will have to get, lol!
Phew! Long post! But hopefully raising constructive points for discussion too...
Best regards,
Smiler
I've lived in Farnborough until moving to Church Crookham 4 years ago, over near the Tweseldown Pub. I use the training areas for running, mountain biking, hill sprints (you'll know the b*stard hill!). I had a nose operation in 1989 at Cambridge Mil, and it was the best A*E around!!! Always went there, even if Frimley Park was closer...
Do you know (I think his rank is right) Brigadier Hopkins? I have so much respect for him, he takes our 'unofficial' instructor medical courses, so we know what to do outside of the St John Ambulance 'just make them safe' courses...as kids my brother broke his neck on the judo mat (fully recovered quickly) and it was Graham Hopkins who recognised it instantly and saved him from paralysis or any other lasting injury...military medical staff are the best!
Hi Josh! Its hard for long term boxers to make the transition to kickboxing, let alone MMA. The reason is that the stance and 'bob and weave' habits of a boxer leave themselves open to receiving leg kicks or putting their heads in the way of kicks and knees. The stance in particular tends to be more side on, therefore the lead leg gets 'eaten up' by kickboxers easily. The old boxing habits need to be removed...and thats hard...also the range of shots is different...kicks are at longer range, knees and punches the same, elbows are even closer...the 'safe, technical, milling zones' of fighting vary due to this. Also the little gloves mean more precise strikes can be thrown, you can hit with different knuckles, the knife edge of the hand, the ridge hand, hammer fist...and the smaller gloves mean there is more gap in a guard...also allow more 'martial' blocking moves that the weight and size of the larger gloves prevent...
Clinch work is different too. Instead of just controlling a body, and looking/stopping punch opportunities, they have to look out for elbows, knees, take downs...its a different set of skills.
Grappling and take downs are just like boxing - easy to learn the basics but take a lifetime to master!
So a boxer would have to make alot of adjustments to their skills in order to compete on a level playing field.
Saying that, mentally they should be there though - a fight is still a fight in respect to mental aspects!
The same goes in reverse also though. Its quite hard to go from kickboxing back to boxing too - the kickboxing stance tends to be too square on, we don't duck and weave enough...the ranges are different...
Mike fighting Bob? That was only publicity. I was there at the event, due to fight on the show, and got to speak with Mike. Despite his immense power, he's really short for a heavyweight, and his legs are too loaded to the floor...he'd be open game for kicks...I was also due to fight Bob Sapp but he chickened out with a few days to go so Tank got up off his bar stool and flew over...
Any good boxer, who is prepared to understand that its a different sport and is prepared to practice and learn the new discipline will do well, needing to work hard on the areas that they lack.
Actually, most MMA fighters have a lot of boxing training, its the best way of learning how to punch for this arena!
Here's something controversial, and the comments are on a 'general' level, as I am sure there are exceptions! In my opinion, alot of boxers train wrong. The trainers do the same as they've always done. For example, look at road work. Science has proven this is a waste of time unless you want to burn some calories, and there are better ways of doing that! Doing a 10mile run trains you to run at a slow steady pace. Fighting is short, sharp, explosive - something more specific may be in order? Plyometrics? Hill sprints? Downhill hill sprints?
And don't get me started on weight training, lol! How many boxers for example do 'traditional' weight training, when sandbags, plyo, core, sledgehammer, 'raw' style resistance training is much more appropriate?
One of the things that MMA has on its side is that the fighters have to master so many disciplines, they look outside their comfort zones, and as a result are always learning, developing etc...everything from conditioning, execution of techniques, flow, strategy etc...and this process will never stop.
I actually see that the rise in popularity of MMA will help boxing leap forward too...from boxers as athletes through to more fans watching. Lets hope so! Because the better you guys get, the better we will have to get, lol!
Phew! Long post! But hopefully raising constructive points for discussion too...
Best regards,
Smiler
Hi Chris!
I think I answered the points on the show side a bit previously, it wasn't as good as 22 and 21 (Daley v Weir exception!) mainly due to the way the fights happened.
Julius wasn't a joke though...reasons explained above...frustrating that he came across that way obviously!
James was dissappointing as a boxer due to my above post...its hard to go either way! But he is good at negating fighters, and he did that with Vitor as well...but to add, Vitor wasn't on form...he let us know afterwards he had broken his hand a few week's back...
No excuse for the Julian instance!!!!! There were b*ollockings backstage for that one. Some of the presentation was off because the show was produced from the USA, and there were some miscommunications. It doesn't help that the 'roving reporter' is a good friend of mine, lol, a top former fighter himself. And yeah, he was backing me, lol!!
Just some background!
Smiler
I think I answered the points on the show side a bit previously, it wasn't as good as 22 and 21 (Daley v Weir exception!) mainly due to the way the fights happened.
Julius wasn't a joke though...reasons explained above...frustrating that he came across that way obviously!
James was dissappointing as a boxer due to my above post...its hard to go either way! But he is good at negating fighters, and he did that with Vitor as well...but to add, Vitor wasn't on form...he let us know afterwards he had broken his hand a few week's back...
No excuse for the Julian instance!!!!! There were b*ollockings backstage for that one. Some of the presentation was off because the show was produced from the USA, and there were some miscommunications. It doesn't help that the 'roving reporter' is a good friend of mine, lol, a top former fighter himself. And yeah, he was backing me, lol!!
Just some background!
Smiler
Cheers for the answers mate. In fairness its not like boxing doesn't have some of the training methods you talk about, certainly at the very low level I traind for it included both long runs and then sprint work bleep tests etc, also there was a good deal of circut training which again is about hard work followed by quick recovery. I get you on the kind of weights boxers do though some of the things being done in my old gym were archain compaired to some of the stuff I did with rugby league playser (I wasn't much of a rugby player but knew some proffesionals).
Surly if you have people like Matt Hughs who are carrer wrestlers learning other sports reasonably well then boxers given 6 months maybe a year could learn some of these things. Particularly as a nuber of boxers I know have some expiriance of other striking sports (I knew loads of guys who did Wing Tsung (sp) in order to add to there punches etc).
Also bob the beast used to be an american footballer and pretty much started off with just haymaker punches, which suggests to me its possible to get lucky with punches in K1 (although I admit people would probably be more catiouse of a boxers punches than they origionaly were with Sapps)
Surly if you have people like Matt Hughs who are carrer wrestlers learning other sports reasonably well then boxers given 6 months maybe a year could learn some of these things. Particularly as a nuber of boxers I know have some expiriance of other striking sports (I knew loads of guys who did Wing Tsung (sp) in order to add to there punches etc).
Also bob the beast used to be an american footballer and pretty much started off with just haymaker punches, which suggests to me its possible to get lucky with punches in K1 (although I admit people would probably be more catiouse of a boxers punches than they origionaly were with Sapps)
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oliverfennell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5564
- Joined: 15 Feb 2007, 06:37
More great stuff, Gary. You've been more insightful on the fine points of boxing training than most of the boxers who post on here! And i've never heard such a good explanation as to why boxers don't fare well in martial arts, and vice versa.
You're a very welcome addition to this board and it would be great if you stuck around after the feedback from this fight dies down.
Are you a boxing fan too?
You're a very welcome addition to this board and it would be great if you stuck around after the feedback from this fight dies down.
Are you a boxing fan too?
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oliverfennell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5564
- Joined: 15 Feb 2007, 06:37
Yes, problem is though that most boxers seem to get into MMA in a hurry - look at Francis and Ray Mercer most recently. Cashing in on their name value and not giving it enough time to learn their craft. Obviously their ages had something to do with not giving it time, but it would be interesting to see a younger fighter take a year out to prepare properly for MMA. Botha is a good example - he couldn't get a win to save his life when he started out in K1, but started picking up some useful results after a few years.josh fg wrote:Surly if you have people like Matt Hughs who are carrer wrestlers learning other sports reasonably well then boxers given 6 months maybe a year could learn some of these things.
For sure!
Although I'm lousy with names and records and stuff, but I love to look at the science of the sport, in paticular the psychology and strategy side, but also the training too...
As I've said I've fought Matt Skelton, Pele Reid, Lee Swaby...and follow their careers...a pro-boxer from Sprott's camp use my trainer's kickboxing gym...so I follow all of them for starters with great interest...and I dream of the era of Eubank/Benn/McLellan/Collins/Piper/Watson returning again...
I'll stick around for sure - I'll learn things!
Hi Josh! Rugby is a sport I look at for their training - such speed and explosive power! The England rubgy team train near me too, and I've seen the influences in the lower league rugby players I know from the training they have leaned from this...
A boxer is well placed to learn the other skills required, but must still realise and implement the training required...unlike Ray Mercer for example...oops! Yes Ray, sorry, mate, it is a different sport...
And any heavyweight with a big punch that lands has a puncher's chance...Bob Sapp has made a career out of it! Mind you, he was taken apart in later fights as we all learned how to beat him...strategy again...
Smiler
Although I'm lousy with names and records and stuff, but I love to look at the science of the sport, in paticular the psychology and strategy side, but also the training too...
As I've said I've fought Matt Skelton, Pele Reid, Lee Swaby...and follow their careers...a pro-boxer from Sprott's camp use my trainer's kickboxing gym...so I follow all of them for starters with great interest...and I dream of the era of Eubank/Benn/McLellan/Collins/Piper/Watson returning again...
I'll stick around for sure - I'll learn things!
Hi Josh! Rugby is a sport I look at for their training - such speed and explosive power! The England rubgy team train near me too, and I've seen the influences in the lower league rugby players I know from the training they have leaned from this...
A boxer is well placed to learn the other skills required, but must still realise and implement the training required...unlike Ray Mercer for example...oops! Yes Ray, sorry, mate, it is a different sport...
And any heavyweight with a big punch that lands has a puncher's chance...Bob Sapp has made a career out of it! Mind you, he was taken apart in later fights as we all learned how to beat him...strategy again...
Smiler
Francois manager and mine are friends, we all had lunch in Stockholm last year. He thought his punching skills would blow everyone away. When he got caught by a kick he said he had never known pain like it...and thats when he became more humble, got back in the gym and did his work, and got everyone's respect as a result.
Top fella he is too, like a gentle friendly puppy lol! Bet he's not if you face him in the ring though...
Smiler
Top fella he is too, like a gentle friendly puppy lol! Bet he's not if you face him in the ring though...
Smiler
Hi Smiler / Gary.
Thanks for your responses so far, they have been a facinate read... especially concerning the stoppage of your fight with Francis.
I was a little bit surprised by your comments about the promoters in that "they didn't know what Julius would bring"... most people on this forum were PREDICTING the outcome on this fight, just based on Julius' recent run (without knowing how accomplished you were in MMA). Any ambition Julius has had in the Boxing ring had gone along time ago and with his advancing age and advancing waist line we knew it would take a pretty damn poor boxer to lose to him now, let alone him learning a new skill.
Whilst, both yourself and Julius might have seen it was an MMA vs MMA fight (which it was no doubt) it certainly wasn't perceived that way in the commentry. The commentators saying that you must avoid his "super fast" punches and were generally going on like he was some world ranked fighters. It certainly gave the impression that the commentary team wanted to sing "MMA's better than boxing, nuh nuh na nuh nuh". Certainly left me as a viewer with that impression.
I am firmly a boxing man and whilst I have tried with the UFC, Cage Rage and other Thai boxing shows I just cannot get into them, don't think I'll ever will. So at least promoting Francis got me a BIT (only a small bit as this was a shadow of the old Julius) of "intrigue factor". However, I think having him as a main event was a bit wrong for the true MMA fans because if we ALL knew the ambition and shape that he was in, then surely the promoters would have.
I do have respect for anyone who steps into the ring, cage, or whatever to do physical combat - the upmost respect. And of course my respect for Julius goes without saying - but he should have packed it in about 5 years ago.
Thanks for your responses so far, they have been a facinate read... especially concerning the stoppage of your fight with Francis.
I was a little bit surprised by your comments about the promoters in that "they didn't know what Julius would bring"... most people on this forum were PREDICTING the outcome on this fight, just based on Julius' recent run (without knowing how accomplished you were in MMA). Any ambition Julius has had in the Boxing ring had gone along time ago and with his advancing age and advancing waist line we knew it would take a pretty damn poor boxer to lose to him now, let alone him learning a new skill.
Whilst, both yourself and Julius might have seen it was an MMA vs MMA fight (which it was no doubt) it certainly wasn't perceived that way in the commentry. The commentators saying that you must avoid his "super fast" punches and were generally going on like he was some world ranked fighters. It certainly gave the impression that the commentary team wanted to sing "MMA's better than boxing, nuh nuh na nuh nuh". Certainly left me as a viewer with that impression.
I am firmly a boxing man and whilst I have tried with the UFC, Cage Rage and other Thai boxing shows I just cannot get into them, don't think I'll ever will. So at least promoting Francis got me a BIT (only a small bit as this was a shadow of the old Julius) of "intrigue factor". However, I think having him as a main event was a bit wrong for the true MMA fans because if we ALL knew the ambition and shape that he was in, then surely the promoters would have.
I do have respect for anyone who steps into the ring, cage, or whatever to do physical combat - the upmost respect. And of course my respect for Julius goes without saying - but he should have packed it in about 5 years ago.
Thanks for your honesty mate, whatever my opiniion and all the best for your next fightSmiler wrote:Hi Chris!
I think I answered the points on the show side a bit previously, it wasn't as good as 22 and 21 (Daley v Weir exception!) mainly due to the way the fights happened.
Julius wasn't a joke though...reasons explained above...frustrating that he came across that way obviously!
James was dissappointing as a boxer due to my above post...its hard to go either way! But he is good at negating fighters, and he did that with Vitor as well...but to add, Vitor wasn't on form...he let us know afterwards he had broken his hand a few week's back...
No excuse for the Julian instance!!!!! There were b*ollockings backstage for that one. Some of the presentation was off because the show was produced from the USA, and there were some miscommunications. It doesn't help that the 'roving reporter' is a good friend of mine, lol, a top former fighter himself. And yeah, he was backing me, lol!!
Just some background!
Smiler
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thaibox uk
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 185
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 04:31
Excellent insights Gary, But the fact is the fight was a farce and everybody Ive spoken to who saw it on tv or live said the same.Surly with your backround if you have ambition to go all the way you should be fighting better people than a washed up Francis(the most predictable result on the show)or Tank Abbot(who came for the cash and was gassed after a minute)The K1 became a freakshow and cagerage is the same, All its doing is giving the critics fresh amunition to criticise a very tough sport.A farce is a farce whether its mma,boxing or any other sport.
Hi!
The fight definately wasn't a farce, I was on top of my game, and we had no idea what skills Julius was bringing to the cage - apart from I know his Thai-boxing coach well and know (and know the work of) of his grappling coach - I knew he was doing good work well in advance of our fight being agreed, let alone the show. Its a shame then that I came in 100% on form and Julius discovered he had more work to do.
I have a lot of ambition, but can only fight who is in front of me. My return to MMA from K1, kick and Thai boxing started last year when I was due to fight Martin Lidberg, the Olympic and World wrestling star, in an MMA match May 2006 in Stockholm at K1 Scandanvia. He dislocated his knee in his last training before the match so it didn't happen, but I had got back into grappling to prepare.
I had a slot free (I like to keep active!) at the start of this year and when Buzz Berry retired from fighting Bob Sapp with two months to go, I was well placed to step in. So I did!
Of course, a couple of days before the show Bob chickened out, so we managed to get Tank quickly on a plane. Thats why I fought the legend that is Tank Abbott. He stepped up to the mark at the last moment. And he didn't come for the cash. He came for the fight. He'd do anything for a fight. Probably just offer him a beer and he'd fight...lol!
The 'current' UK no.1 is Tengiz, and he was KO'd in about 5 seconds by the top up and coming Brazilian, Edson Draggo. So my next fight was Edson, and it was a war, he threw everything he had at me in the first round, and I took it, and started to turn the pressure on. By the end of the second we both had cuts and bruises yet I was getting stronger and he was getting weaker, and his lead leg was mashed. I had damaged his neck with a neck crank in round 2, and he withdrew for that reason. But we think he quit - he realised round 3 would be painfull!
And then I'm given Julius Francis, who I know was back in hard training before it was offered, and his coach had spoken about his enthusiasm for MMA and was training hard and making good improvements. Despite this work, I win, and win easy, but was on TOP form, and it WASN'T EASY MAKING IT LOOK EASY! Julius has my respect, if not yours.
Just out of interest, do you know what it feels like to get hit with a 4oz grapple mitt from a 133kg fella who's been punching his whole life? The result was not predictable for our team, so we prepared and implemented accordingly.
I have also had to prove my way in MMA. Despite everything I've done, being one of the first 'modern' MMAers in the country, possibly the first international from the UK, I am still proving my way in MMA. This is in respect to my fight ability, and my fighting 'persona' as a sportsman supporting the shows he works on. There's much more to being a sportsman than the competition and training.
I don't think K1 was, has been or is a freakshow. The top fighters always have and always will rise to the top. The 'freaks' from K1, people like Bob Sapp and Hoi Man Choi have some good wins under their belts, they have proved they are fighters, not freaks. Akebono flopped - but fighters are like tea bags - you don't know how strong they are until you put them in hot water! Akebono was like Julius saturday - just needs some work.
Remember in K1 Semmy Schilt was called a 'freak' for his height. Yet now he is twice K1 Grand Prix Champion. You don't become no.1 by just being a 'freak'.
Cage Rage is the same. It gives opportunities, challenges, interesting matchups. And the top fighters will rise to the top. But it is wrong to exclude a fighter, who has the tools, and we know has done the preparation, the potential to try.
Critics will always find a way to criticise. Same with journalists - they always put their own spin on a subject, and often just make it up anyway! Its up to us to either take it with a pinch of salt, or find out the facts and then make our own minds up.
Me, I'm just continuing to work through challenge after challenge...getting on with my job...everything else will fall into place...
Just my opinion!
Smiler
The fight definately wasn't a farce, I was on top of my game, and we had no idea what skills Julius was bringing to the cage - apart from I know his Thai-boxing coach well and know (and know the work of) of his grappling coach - I knew he was doing good work well in advance of our fight being agreed, let alone the show. Its a shame then that I came in 100% on form and Julius discovered he had more work to do.
I have a lot of ambition, but can only fight who is in front of me. My return to MMA from K1, kick and Thai boxing started last year when I was due to fight Martin Lidberg, the Olympic and World wrestling star, in an MMA match May 2006 in Stockholm at K1 Scandanvia. He dislocated his knee in his last training before the match so it didn't happen, but I had got back into grappling to prepare.
I had a slot free (I like to keep active!) at the start of this year and when Buzz Berry retired from fighting Bob Sapp with two months to go, I was well placed to step in. So I did!
Of course, a couple of days before the show Bob chickened out, so we managed to get Tank quickly on a plane. Thats why I fought the legend that is Tank Abbott. He stepped up to the mark at the last moment. And he didn't come for the cash. He came for the fight. He'd do anything for a fight. Probably just offer him a beer and he'd fight...lol!
The 'current' UK no.1 is Tengiz, and he was KO'd in about 5 seconds by the top up and coming Brazilian, Edson Draggo. So my next fight was Edson, and it was a war, he threw everything he had at me in the first round, and I took it, and started to turn the pressure on. By the end of the second we both had cuts and bruises yet I was getting stronger and he was getting weaker, and his lead leg was mashed. I had damaged his neck with a neck crank in round 2, and he withdrew for that reason. But we think he quit - he realised round 3 would be painfull!
And then I'm given Julius Francis, who I know was back in hard training before it was offered, and his coach had spoken about his enthusiasm for MMA and was training hard and making good improvements. Despite this work, I win, and win easy, but was on TOP form, and it WASN'T EASY MAKING IT LOOK EASY! Julius has my respect, if not yours.
Just out of interest, do you know what it feels like to get hit with a 4oz grapple mitt from a 133kg fella who's been punching his whole life? The result was not predictable for our team, so we prepared and implemented accordingly.
I have also had to prove my way in MMA. Despite everything I've done, being one of the first 'modern' MMAers in the country, possibly the first international from the UK, I am still proving my way in MMA. This is in respect to my fight ability, and my fighting 'persona' as a sportsman supporting the shows he works on. There's much more to being a sportsman than the competition and training.
I don't think K1 was, has been or is a freakshow. The top fighters always have and always will rise to the top. The 'freaks' from K1, people like Bob Sapp and Hoi Man Choi have some good wins under their belts, they have proved they are fighters, not freaks. Akebono flopped - but fighters are like tea bags - you don't know how strong they are until you put them in hot water! Akebono was like Julius saturday - just needs some work.
Remember in K1 Semmy Schilt was called a 'freak' for his height. Yet now he is twice K1 Grand Prix Champion. You don't become no.1 by just being a 'freak'.
Cage Rage is the same. It gives opportunities, challenges, interesting matchups. And the top fighters will rise to the top. But it is wrong to exclude a fighter, who has the tools, and we know has done the preparation, the potential to try.
Critics will always find a way to criticise. Same with journalists - they always put their own spin on a subject, and often just make it up anyway! Its up to us to either take it with a pinch of salt, or find out the facts and then make our own minds up.
Me, I'm just continuing to work through challenge after challenge...getting on with my job...everything else will fall into place...
Just my opinion!
Smiler
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oliverfennell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5564
- Joined: 15 Feb 2007, 06:37
Keep up the good work!
As I said earlier, I don't follow MMA, but I do think those who run it down are being unfair. Even to the non-fan such as me (although I have seen the occasional match/promotion), it is clear it is a skill, and a finely honed one. Some look at the groundwork and say it's like drunks rolling around on the floor, but I think they're just being biased. I watched Dan Severn seemingly dominate Royce Gracie for ages all those years ago, for Gracie to pull a submission move out of what looked a lost cause. Sure, it wasn't pretty to watch, but that match alone got my respect for the strategic side of things.
Some people also don't like the idea of fighters getting hit when they're down. I didn't like it either, and that was my reaction watching Daley-Weir. However I thought about it later and realised, sure Weir took a couple of blows he didn't need to, but they completely ended the fight. If it was boxing, and he'd gone down, he would have got a minimum eight count and would possibly have gotten up and continued, which would have meant taking more total blows afterwards than the ones he was hit with when down. So I ended up thinking maybe striking a floored opponent isn't as bad a thing as it looks.
PS Smiler, would you fancy your chances against Brock Lesnar?
As I said earlier, I don't follow MMA, but I do think those who run it down are being unfair. Even to the non-fan such as me (although I have seen the occasional match/promotion), it is clear it is a skill, and a finely honed one. Some look at the groundwork and say it's like drunks rolling around on the floor, but I think they're just being biased. I watched Dan Severn seemingly dominate Royce Gracie for ages all those years ago, for Gracie to pull a submission move out of what looked a lost cause. Sure, it wasn't pretty to watch, but that match alone got my respect for the strategic side of things.
Some people also don't like the idea of fighters getting hit when they're down. I didn't like it either, and that was my reaction watching Daley-Weir. However I thought about it later and realised, sure Weir took a couple of blows he didn't need to, but they completely ended the fight. If it was boxing, and he'd gone down, he would have got a minimum eight count and would possibly have gotten up and continued, which would have meant taking more total blows afterwards than the ones he was hit with when down. So I ended up thinking maybe striking a floored opponent isn't as bad a thing as it looks.
PS Smiler, would you fancy your chances against Brock Lesnar?
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thaibox uk
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 185
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 04:31
The point I,m making is that to the fans watching (and critics) both fights
looked and were in my view mismatches and have received a lot of criticisem from all quarters ,After his initial 30 second burst Abbot was totally spent and Francis as I posted earlier in the thread never stood a chance against a fighter of your backround and abilaty from the day the match was made. People from my gym who went to the show said they would,nt go again and that it dosn,t compare to the ufc shows and that only the Daly-Weir fight stood out.
Contrary to what a lot of people think any boxer even at the top of his game would struggle at mma and Francis hasn,t been at the top of his for years.
looked and were in my view mismatches and have received a lot of criticisem from all quarters ,After his initial 30 second burst Abbot was totally spent and Francis as I posted earlier in the thread never stood a chance against a fighter of your backround and abilaty from the day the match was made. People from my gym who went to the show said they would,nt go again and that it dosn,t compare to the ufc shows and that only the Daly-Weir fight stood out.
Contrary to what a lot of people think any boxer even at the top of his game would struggle at mma and Francis hasn,t been at the top of his for years.
Good stuff again Smiler, I'll certainly route for you.
Mismatches occur in Boxing and it would be wrong for us boxing fans not to expect the same thing in Cage Rage/UFC etc. It does annoy us hardcore boxing fans when a fight is hyped up as a match where both guys stand and chance when us (the hardcore fans know in advance) that its going to be a mismatch. It happend nots so long ago when Joe Calzaghe defended against Peter Manfredo and especially when Enzo Maccarinelli defended against Bobby Gunn (on the same bill)... two massive mismatches. Some 30+thousand people in attendence... most of whom I am sure bought the hype.
Now looking at your past accomplishments, this is what essentially your fight with Julius was. Fair enough if he trainer said he was going great guns but one simple look at his boxing record shows that Julius has been surviving of late - hardly won a round in a number of years. Also, when he's up against punchers... he'll fall. Not saying he is chinny, but he does go down, sometimes quickly and easily, when up against it. Also, since a car accident damaged his ribs he is particularly weak in the body.
If a bunch of fight fans know this much, then I would hope that any promoter/matchmaker would know. In the boxing ring, Julius would survive against a non puncher or someone without a big punch output (but wouldn't win a round). Julius would fall against a puncher.
I feel sorry for Julius, I hope he isn't hard up but he shouldn't be fighting at his age... been a great servant and in his prime was a fun fighter to watch and had a great desire.
What I didn't like about the show was it definately didn't mention Julius' recent record in the boxing ring, his inactivity, his shape and his age that much. Plus the commentators (who should know alot more about the sport than the likes of me) didn't make it obvious that Julius didn't just quit when he was gassed - they should have stated what you have said in the thread.
ThaiboxUK's line is correct regarding Boxers going into MMA, they are completely different trades and I am sure most MMA's would struggle in a boxing ring. However, by hyping up Francis as one time amazing fighter who still had it I do think they did boxing a bit of a disserves. Boxing fans KNEW this was going to be a mismatch. Farce is a bit strong, but we expected nothing but a one sided beating (and thats without knowing your record!!).
Mismatches occur in Boxing and it would be wrong for us boxing fans not to expect the same thing in Cage Rage/UFC etc. It does annoy us hardcore boxing fans when a fight is hyped up as a match where both guys stand and chance when us (the hardcore fans know in advance) that its going to be a mismatch. It happend nots so long ago when Joe Calzaghe defended against Peter Manfredo and especially when Enzo Maccarinelli defended against Bobby Gunn (on the same bill)... two massive mismatches. Some 30+thousand people in attendence... most of whom I am sure bought the hype.
Now looking at your past accomplishments, this is what essentially your fight with Julius was. Fair enough if he trainer said he was going great guns but one simple look at his boxing record shows that Julius has been surviving of late - hardly won a round in a number of years. Also, when he's up against punchers... he'll fall. Not saying he is chinny, but he does go down, sometimes quickly and easily, when up against it. Also, since a car accident damaged his ribs he is particularly weak in the body.
If a bunch of fight fans know this much, then I would hope that any promoter/matchmaker would know. In the boxing ring, Julius would survive against a non puncher or someone without a big punch output (but wouldn't win a round). Julius would fall against a puncher.
I feel sorry for Julius, I hope he isn't hard up but he shouldn't be fighting at his age... been a great servant and in his prime was a fun fighter to watch and had a great desire.
What I didn't like about the show was it definately didn't mention Julius' recent record in the boxing ring, his inactivity, his shape and his age that much. Plus the commentators (who should know alot more about the sport than the likes of me) didn't make it obvious that Julius didn't just quit when he was gassed - they should have stated what you have said in the thread.
ThaiboxUK's line is correct regarding Boxers going into MMA, they are completely different trades and I am sure most MMA's would struggle in a boxing ring. However, by hyping up Francis as one time amazing fighter who still had it I do think they did boxing a bit of a disserves. Boxing fans KNEW this was going to be a mismatch. Farce is a bit strong, but we expected nothing but a one sided beating (and thats without knowing your record!!).