And for all the Ali salesmen like clueless Collins it never happened.Collins2000 wrote:And for the Ali haters it is their Holy Grail.Rocky Balboa wrote:In my view, the first fight will always hold more significence than the other two as Frazier beat Ali when both were nearest their peak.
Did Ali beat Frazier at his very best?
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Collins2000
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granberry wrote:And for all the Ali salesmen like clueless Collins it never happened.Collins2000 wrote:And for the Ali haters it is their Holy Grail.Rocky Balboa wrote:In my view, the first fight will always hold more significence than the other two as Frazier beat Ali when both were nearest their peak.
Oh, it did happen Crankberry, but you have to put it into perspective which is something you are unable to do.
Last edited by Collins2000 on 26 Sep 2007, 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
Collins2000 wrote:granberry wrote:And for all the Ali salesmen like clueless Collins it never happened.Collins2000 wrote: And for the Ali haters it is their Holy Grail.
Clueless, eh?
That's rich coming from a nutter like you, Crankberry.
By the way, clown, it did happen but you have to put it into perspective which is something you are always unable to do.
Clueless Collins is the ultimate Ali shill.
As he shows with every post he makes.
This is for you, miss clueless:
http://antekprizering.com/alifrazier109.jpeg
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Collins2000
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Hey Granberry...speaking of clueless it's your old buddy BoxBuzz who you affectionately call clueless all the time.....just reminding you not to forget to give us your take on the Ali Terrell fight when you get the chance. Oh and your commments on Ali Frazier II when that darn pesky ref saved ol' wobbly Smolderin' Joe from an early KO. Those videos don't lie....or do they?granberry wrote:Clueless,Collins2000 wrote:Crankberry, How did you score Ali - Norton 1?
How did you like the photo?
LOL
Changing the subject, huh?
Go grovel some more before your Ali altar.
Collins is the official altar boy of the Religion of Ali.
Come clean, buzz.BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Granberry...speaking of clueless it's your old buddy BoxBuzz who you affectionately call clueless all the time.....just reminding you not to forget to give us your take on the Ali Terrell fight when you get the chance. Oh and your commments on Ali Frazier II when that darn pesky ref saved ol' wobbly Smolderin' Joe from an early KO. Those videos don't lie....or do they?granberry wrote:Clueless,Collins2000 wrote:Crankberry, How did you score Ali - Norton 1?
How did you like the photo?
LOL
Changing the subject, huh?
Go grovel some more before your Ali altar.
Collins is the official altar boy of the Religion of Ali.
We all know you are Collins--and Collins is you.
You always show up and play tag team when your Religion of Ali is not genuflected for.
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Collins2000
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BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Granberry...speaking of clueless it's your old buddy BoxBuzz who you affectionately call clueless all the time.....just reminding you not to forget to give us your take on the Ali Terrell fight when you get the chance. Oh and your commments on Ali Frazier II when that darn pesky ref saved ol' wobbly Smolderin' Joe from an early KO. Those videos don't lie....or do they?granberry wrote:Clueless,Collins2000 wrote:Crankberry, How did you score Ali - Norton 1?
How did you like the photo?
LOL
Changing the subject, huh?
Go grovel some more before your Ali altar.
Collins is the official altar boy of the Religion of Ali.
They don't tie in with his wacky theories so he just pretends they didn't happen.
Don't forget, he once met Jersey Joe outside a football stadium and he also saw a guy who'd been dead for 3 years giving Floyd Patterson a lumbar massage. Oh, and the southpaw, left hook, punch himself in the face story should also be remembered when you need a good laugh.
The internet has been a godsend for all the cranks out there.
Collins and buzz are joined at the hip.[b]Collins[/b]2000 wrote:[b]BoxBuzz[/b] wrote:Hey Granberry...speaking of clueless it's your old buddy BoxBuzz who you affectionately call clueless all the time.....just reminding you not to forget to give us your take on the Ali Terrell fight when you get the chance. Oh and your commments on Ali Frazier II when that darn pesky ref saved ol' wobbly Smolderin' Joe from an early KO. Those videos don't lie....or do they?granberry wrote: Clueless,
How did you like the photo?
LOL
Changing the subject, huh?
Go grovel some more before your Ali altar.
Collins is the official altar boy of the Religion of Ali.
They don't tie in with his wacky theories so he just pretends they didn't happen.
Don't forget, he once met Jersey Joe outside a football stadium and he also saw a guy who'd been dead for 3 years giving Floyd Patterson a lumbar massage. Oh, and the southpaw, left hook, punch himself in the face story should also be remembered when you need a good laugh.
The internet has been a godsend for all the cranks out there.
Do you really think you are fooling anyone, buzz?
Do buzz and his Siamese twin Collins get down on their knees together in front of their Ali altar
and genuflect as a team?
I am sure they do.
Just as they work in tandem posting their juvenile, useless, spiteful posts here on boxrec.
I have no argument with the scoring of the first fight, but I cannot understand people saying Ali was "more active" than Frazier because he had two fights in the twelve months before it.
It is not about rounds fought. It is about the amount of training done. Aside from the fact that Ali should never have been suspended over a conscience issue (robbing him of what should have been his top earning years) he was two fights short short of fitness for the first Frazier fight which would have included about eighty rounds of training.
I think that the first Ali fight took a lot out of Frazier. He won the fight, but he was a hell of a mess after it, needing hospitalisation after a very courageous performance. He was never really the same after it.
It is not about rounds fought. It is about the amount of training done. Aside from the fact that Ali should never have been suspended over a conscience issue (robbing him of what should have been his top earning years) he was two fights short short of fitness for the first Frazier fight which would have included about eighty rounds of training.
I think that the first Ali fight took a lot out of Frazier. He won the fight, but he was a hell of a mess after it, needing hospitalisation after a very courageous performance. He was never really the same after it.
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I Feel Fine
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I'll say it one more time, but age is a red herring in this discussion. Age had nothing to do with why Ali was not at his peak for this fight.Ezzard wrote:I think the argument about 'peak' has been stretched out of all proportion.
How often do 2 top ATG's meet at their absolute peaks?
When Ali lost to Spinks and Holmes he was washed up. This is undisputable. BUT when a fighter is 1-2 years past their peak it shouldn't be seen as a 'get out of jail free' card for that fighter's supporters.
That's my take on it anyway.
That said, what you say goes both ways, for Frazier as well as Ali. If Frazier was not at his peak, he was only a couple of years past it when he lost the rematch. The Frazier in 74 was not the Frazier who fought Jumbo Cummings.
Just an FYI to all posters. It is hereby SPITEFUL to ask for an analysis of the Ali Terrell fight from another contributor, or to inquire about a wobbly Joe Frazier who may have been saved by a warm and fuzzy referee in Ali Frazier II. Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough well trained fighters like Ron Lyle, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, or a Sonny Liston are not able to finish a fight with this one particular over advertized boxing legend. When we all know full well it was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing.
It's Spiteful, mean spirited and lacking in imagination and intellect. So at this point I will ask everyone to refrain from such observations and comments.
It's Spiteful, mean spirited and lacking in imagination and intellect. So at this point I will ask everyone to refrain from such observations and comments.
Ron Lyle[Ali's referee 'stopped' the fight], George Foreman[Foreman was so out of shape he was tired before 3 rounds were over, the ring was not a legitimate ring, and a lot more], Joe Frazier [Frazier's own cornerman, the treacherous Eddie Futch, betrayed his own fighter], or a Sonny Liston [obvious fakes to anyone but altar boys of the Religion of Ali, like poor buzz].BoxBuzz wrote: Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough well trained fighters like Ron Lyle, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, or a Sonny Liston are not able to finish a fight with this one particular over advertized boxing legend. When we all know full well it was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing.
It's a tough life worshipping a media-created fraud, isn't it, buzz.
To use buzz's own style:
"Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough "greatest of all time" Ali gets the shit kicked out of him by overweight lightheavyweight Doug Jones, needs extra time between rounds after getting knocked down by 185 pound Henry Cooper, struggles with glass-chinned Ken Norton in 3 fights and still hasn't beaten the mediocre Norton, gets a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Jimmy Young, loses his title to a novice who only had 7 pro fights, etc. When we all know full well these embarassing beatings he took was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing."
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Collins2000
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Best one today.granberry wrote:Ron Lyle[Ali's referee 'stopped' the fight], George Foreman[Foreman was so out of shape he was tired before 3 rounds were over, the ring was not a legitimate ring, and a lot more], Joe Frazier [Frazier's own cornerman, the treacherous Eddie Futch, betrayed his own fighter], or a Sonny Liston [obvious fakes to anyone but altar boys of the Religion of Ali, like poor buzz].BoxBuzz wrote: Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough well trained fighters like Ron Lyle, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, or a Sonny Liston are not able to finish a fight with this one particular over advertized boxing legend. When we all know full well it was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing.
It's a tough life worshipping a media-created fraud, isn't it, buzz.
To use buzz's own style:
"Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough "greatest of all time" Ali gets the shit kicked out of him by overweight lightheavyweight Doug Jones, needs extra time between rounds after getting knocked down by 185 pound Henry Cooper, struggles with glass-chinned Ken Norton in 3 fights and still hasn't beaten the mediocre Norton, gets a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Jimmy Young, loses his title to a novice who only had 7 pro fights, etc. When we all know full well these embarassing beatings he took was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing."
Straight from The Cranky Zone.
Collins2000 wrote:Best one today.granberry wrote:Ron Lyle[Ali's referee 'stopped' the fight], George Foreman[Foreman was so out of shape he was tired before 3 rounds were over, the ring was not a legitimate ring, and a lot more], Joe Frazier [Frazier's own cornerman, the treacherous Eddie Futch, betrayed his own fighter], or a Sonny Liston [obvious fakes to anyone but altar boys of the Religion of Ali, like poor buzz].BoxBuzz wrote: Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough well trained fighters like Ron Lyle, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, or a Sonny Liston are not able to finish a fight with this one particular over advertized boxing legend. When we all know full well it was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing.
It's a tough life worshipping a media-created fraud, isn't it, buzz.
To use buzz's own style:
"Or to ask people to simply believe their own eyes when big tough "greatest of all time" Ali gets the shit kicked out of him by overweight lightheavyweight Doug Jones, needs extra time between rounds after getting knocked down by 185 pound Henry Cooper, struggles with glass-chinned Ken Norton in 3 fights and still hasn't beaten the mediocre Norton, gets a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Jimmy Young, loses his title to a novice who only had 7 pro fights, etc. When we all know full well these embarassing beatings he took was accomplished with smoke, mirrors and palm greasing."
Straight from The Cranky Zone.
At this point it has become clear to me that granberry is Superman and the Ali Terrell fight is kryptonite.
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I Feel Fine
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I wonder who is making excuses...granberry wrote:
Ron Lyle[Ali's referee 'stopped' the fight], George Foreman[Foreman was so out of shape he was tired before 3 rounds were over, the ring was not a legitimate ring, and a lot more], Joe Frazier [Frazier's own cornerman, the treacherous Eddie Futch, betrayed his own fighter], or a Sonny Liston [obvious fakes to anyone but altar boys of the Religion of Ali, like poor buzz]
when big tough "greatest of all time" Ali gets the shit kicked out of him by overweight lightheavyweight Doug Jones, needs extra time between rounds after getting knocked down by 185 pound Henry Cooper, struggles with glass-chinned Ken Norton in 3 fights and still hasn't beaten the mediocre Norton, gets a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons from Jimmy Young, loses his title to a novice who only had 7 pro fights,I Feel Fine wrote:I wonder who is making excuses...granberry wrote:
Ron Lyle[Ali's referee 'stopped' the fight], George Foreman[Foreman was so out of shape he was tired before 3 rounds were over, the ring was not a legitimate ring, and a lot more], Joe Frazier [Frazier's own cornerman, the treacherous Eddie Futch, betrayed his own fighter], or a Sonny Liston [obvious fakes to anyone but altar boys of the Religion of Ali, like poor buzz]
I wonder who is making excuses....
That's easy to answer:
The worshippers at the Ali Shrine gurgle 'excuses' written for them by Thomas Hauser, Norman Mailer, Herbert Goldman, Nigel Collins, Steve Farhood and other clueless Media Shills for the Worship of Ali.
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I Feel Fine
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Do you two honestly think that any of my opinions are informed by Hauser or Mailer or any of those men? I've seen about 50 of Ali's 61 fights, and I don't need anyone to tell me what he did or didn't do.
Ali didn't lose to Doug Jones, my friend. Jones went long stretches of time not throwing punches, got his ears boxed off, and was stunned at least four times in the fight. He had his MSG crowd cheering at every half assed jab and missed right hand that he threw, and idiots like you take that as a win. It was closer than it should have been, but that's about all. Jones did not come close to winning six rounds.
When you show me video evidence of extra time for Ali inbetween rounds with Cooper then I'll jump right on that bandwagon.
Ali didn't lose to Doug Jones, my friend. Jones went long stretches of time not throwing punches, got his ears boxed off, and was stunned at least four times in the fight. He had his MSG crowd cheering at every half assed jab and missed right hand that he threw, and idiots like you take that as a win. It was closer than it should have been, but that's about all. Jones did not come close to winning six rounds.
When you show me video evidence of extra time for Ali inbetween rounds with Cooper then I'll jump right on that bandwagon.
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I Feel Fine
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Like? Give me some examples.granberry wrote:I Feel Fine" asks
Do you two honestly think that any of my opinions are informed by Hauser or Mailer or any of those men?
Yes. I do.
You parrot what they say WORD FOR WORD.
I stand by my previous statement that I've seen every fight of Ali that I could see and my opinions are based on that. My opinions of what Ali did certainly reflect what happened in his fights more closely than yours do.
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Collins2000
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When you have had your fill of Cranky's knowldege of boxing history, be sure to look out for his knowledge of boxing technique.I Feel Fine wrote:Like? Give me some examples.granberry wrote:I Feel Fine" asks
Do you two honestly think that any of my opinions are informed by Hauser or Mailer or any of those men?
Yes. I do.
You parrot what they say WORD FOR WORD.
I stand by my previous statement that I've seen every fight of Ali that I could see and my opinions are based on that. My opinions of what Ali did certainly reflect what happened in his fights more closely than yours do.
If you think he is deluded now...