Is Pavlik v Taylor on UK TV?

Datsue · Post by **Datsue** » 28 Sep 2007, 03:57

I don't wanna sound like an echo in a sea-girt cave, but:

Taylor to thrash him. Pavlik's a bit one-D, isn't he? Straight lines, not enough head movement. You'd think someone tall who can move & stick at the same time will carve him up...

Taylor TKO10.

EDIT:The only thing I am unsure of is Pavlik's chin -- but to me that is just going to determine how much punishment he takes. Did anyone see Fernando Zuniga floor Pavlik? I've not seen the fight; was it a heavy knockdown ('cos I've seen Zuniga fight before, & he ain't exactly the second coming of Julian Jackson...)?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Sep 2007, 05:07

Zuniga is a pretty hard puncher and maybe he caught Pavlik just right. The way he stood up to Miranda tells us he's got a good chin I reckon.

I think he'll make this a good fight, he throws a lot of punches. Could be he'll wear Taylor down, but it depends if JT really wants this.

If he does, I think he'll outpoint Pavlik with that jab. Taylor UD for me.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Sep 2007, 06:16

What makes me laugh is that ppl a) rave on about Taylor "A class" opponents even though he's never really performed yet, and b) use that to belittle Pavlik with "who has he fought?" nonsense.

Pavlik is 25. Who had Taylor fought at that age? He was getting ready for shot to shit Joppy and even shotter Raul Marquez.

Pavlik has fought some tough veterans like Bronco McKart, Fulgencio Zuniga (who beat the shit out of 168-lb prospect Vic Oganov this month), Jose Luis Zertuche and he battered top contender Miranda.

He's ready for this title shot and it's going to be a good fight.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 28 Sep 2007, 06:48

I don't think anyone is 'belittling' Pavlik as such. It's a fact he has absolutely nobody anywhere near Hopkins and Wright on his resume. Or even Spinks. And that is relevant criteria (some of it) for making a call on the fight.

We know Taylor can win fights at that level. We don't know if Pavlik can. I don't it's unfair to use that and other criteria as a basis for favouring a Taylor win?

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 28 Sep 2007, 06:53

I think Taylor definitely gets a raw deal. His last coupe of performances weren't great but I think his wins over Hopkins and Wright are definitely subjected to unjust criticism.

Ouma is a good opponent and I think too much is read into the fact that he is a light-middleweight. Taylor shot his bolt early looking for the knockout and would have probably looked better if he hadn't.

Nobody is going to look great against Cory Spinks, but having said that Taylor was very poor that night and it was very frustrating to see his lack of commitment.

For me, you can find faults in all of these fights but it is only the Spinks one that is out and out poor. Pavlik is being over-rated and Taylor under-rated for this one me thinks. Taylor to win.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Sep 2007, 06:56

Terry D wrote:So McKart was in the form of his life and Joppy was awful? At least Joppy was a recognised middleweight who had wore a decent belt. Not a LM WBO title holder who had clearly seen better days.

Joppy hardly laid a glove on Taylor, Bronco was picking Pavlik off at times.

Miranda was a top contender, and nothing more. He is not going, in my opinion, to be a title holder let alone a Champion.

You keep saying Taylor has not performed but he did against Hopkins and Wright, how do you explain him winning two of those bouts. HBO looking out for their own cannot be blamed for everything.

Who said McKart was on the form of his life? McKart was a decent cagey fighter who could block punches and try to apply pressure. Simply, it was a fight where he could, and did, LEARN SOMETHING.

Joppy had nothing to offer. He's taken an absolute battering off Hopkins, was heartbroken after the death of his kid, and Taylor still managed to look hideous because Joppy was defensive.

Did Taylor perform in these title fights? I thought he lost the 1st to Hopkins and lost to Spinks, personally.

Don't see how you can talk down the Miranda win. Miranda had broken Abraham's jaw, despite not having the skills to win. Pavlik beat a puncher who believed in himself, which is an achievement however you want to spin it.

Taylor and DiBella have been talking absolute bollocks of recent. If they're going to talk about opposition, they should recell that JT's performances have been nothing to brag about.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Sep 2007, 07:16

Change the record, ffs. In fact, I'd wait for a good performance before arguing for the guy. He's what, 29 now and no one can stand him.

I've waited in vain every fight for Taylor to do something big and justify his early career hype. I was disgusted with the last fight.

Taylor's defense isn't great either. He backs up in straight lines. Pavlik has been winning FIGHTS, which has helped him develop.

Why is Taylor spoken of as this finesse fighter who engages in elite level, quality boxing matches? Hopkins and Spinks were spoilers but Taylor had the potential to do better. In about the 5th round, he nailed Spinks by leaping forward with an excellent left-right, but he didn't follow up and that was the best he offered all fight.

Taylor is supposed to be the man of pedigree but what has he done so well?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Sep 2007, 07:42

I think Taylor will beat Pavlik although I don't rate him.

Pavlik's pretty one dimensional and strong but his skills and defence are lacking. He could walk through the Miranda's of the Middleweight division but what will happen when he faces someone strong enough and able to box him? Miranda was horribly overrated too.

If Taylor relaxes and lets his hands go I could see him winning a decision.

Datsue · Post by **Datsue** » 28 Sep 2007, 07:53

While the conversation's swung back around to Pantera, I was thinking: how many other boxers have nicknames that are based on cars? Maybe it'll start a trend.

Kevin "Capri 2.8 Injection" Mitchell, anyone?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 28 Sep 2007, 10:02

Goz wrote:I don't think anyone is 'belittling' Pavlik as such. It's a fact he has absolutely nobody anywhere near Hopkins and Wright on his resume. Or even Spinks. And that is relevant criteria (some of it) for making a call on the fight.

We know Taylor can win fights at that level. We don't know if Pavlik can. I don't it's unfair to use that and other criteria as a basis for favouring a Taylor win?

he's about 5 years younger than Taylor, so it's no surprise he hasn't fought Hopkins & Wright

No one can stand him? Damn I never factored that in-ring factor into the fight. I might have to recant my prediction to Pavlik Wpopularity Taylor. It is not about like or dislike, that belongs in the Current Scene 'lets all laugh at Taylor's stutter thread'.

what I'm getting as is that Taylor's in and out ring persona are pretty dire. Him vs Hopkins and Spinks was like watching two guys mincing around each other for 36 minutes. And his whole image is tarnished with some of the comments he comes out with. Let's face it, after the Spinks fight he just sounded like a complete nob!

I give Taylor credit for drawing with Wright and IMO legitimately beating Hopkins 2nd time. But his lack of ring generalship and bad management have prevented him from becoming a big star, whereas a negative old man like Hopkins can go on from those non performances to be a relative PPV star. That is what I call insane.
Pavlik's a good offensive fighter, and he's fared well with some decent fighters who offered something. Simply, he learned in combat with Zertuche, McKart, Zuniga.

In terms of on the way up non-fights they're pretty even - Taylor blew away Edouard, Pavlik battered Pierre (similar level to Edouard) to within an inch of his life, it seemed. They both beat Grady Brewer though I can't remember who did better (Taylor was dominant, in what I remember as a quite repetitive fight).

Taylor has had top level fights, natural being that he's older. But he's not had the right fights to bridge classes "C" and "A". Pavlik has and therefore has had a gradual, natural learning curve.

Taylor will have legitmised his title if he wins convincingly (or gets off the floor to win) because he's fighting a physical threat who more than earned his shot v Miranda in an excellent elim bout (in fact, Pav's won 2 elims).

Taylor needs to do something that gives us clarity - win or lose.

I'll give Taylor this and correct myself in 1 area - his defense did look good last time. Though it was more offense he needed - vs Cory Spinks.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:44

Autobarn wrote:
Goz wrote:I don't think anyone is 'belittling' Pavlik as such. It's a fact he has absolutely nobody anywhere near Hopkins and Wright on his resume. Or even Spinks. And that is relevant criteria (some of it) for making a call on the fight.

We know Taylor can win fights at that level. We don't know if Pavlik can. I don't it's unfair to use that and other criteria as a basis for favouring a Taylor win?
he's about 5 years younger than Taylor, so it's no surprise he hasn't fought Hopkins & Wright

Whatever!!

That's not the point. Pavlik hasn't fought at that level. Taylor has. And remained undefeated.

And Pavlik has been a pro longer than Taylor anyway....

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:41

i think pavlik has the style to win this one.

good workrate.

strong.

good chin.

sets a high pace.

good punch.

i reckon it will be a good back and forth battle.

in the taylor-winky sort of mould.

but pavlik taking a close decision.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 28 Sep 2007, 13:09

Taylor at times is too negative, he didn't react well when being backed up by Ouma, Pavlik will be another story. I do think Taylor will show up in this fight and box well but Pavlik's sheer toughness and workrate will see him winning more rounds. Would love to see a brawl between these two.

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 28 Sep 2007, 21:29

This is the first time in Taylor's career that he meets a physically large power puncher who throws punches in bunches. he fought exclusively against welterweights/junior middleweights prior to meeting Hopkins and Hopkins was older slower and could only fight sporadically in spurts at that point.

For all the talk of Pavlik getting hit easily and being too straight up what about Taylor's horrendous footwork and balance?
Or him still not knowing what to do when an opponent has him on the ropes? There is no proof that Manny Steward has done anything to improve Jermaine's game.

Pavlik may indeed have numerous flaws but so has Taylor.

Taylor is no slouch but if he couldn't keep Corey Spinks off him and got visibly stunned by him on a few occasions Pavlik's style and punching power could turn out to be a nightmare for him.

Pavlik TKO 8

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Sep 2007, 06:11

I think it's going to be a hard fight. Why has Taylor been moved away from punchers- and 160 pounders -for so long? That's one of the key questions and we are going to find out tonight. Because he has been matched away from punchers and likes to fight smaller men.

My point still stands. Taylor is quite a lot older. He should have matured earlier. They were both brought along slowly. Pavlik's stepping up (vs a boring champ) now at about the same age that Taylor stepped up (vs a boring champ). Taylor's nearly half a decade older so how can Pavlik be criticised for not fighting Cory Spinks and Kassim Ouma (who would look even smaller vs Pavlik than vs Taylor)?

If Taylor wins he will have proven that he should have been fighting bigger fighters. He'll probably jolt Pavlik early but I see Kelly coming on to get him.

If Taylor wins a split decision it may not be good enough. If he gets a controversial decision it'll be disastrous.

I'll agree with this. I can't wait for this fight.

I don't think Pavlik is just some one dimenstional "Lacy". He's shown signs of ring generalship, patience, punch variety and of course has a lot of power and workrate. Would have been nice if they could have fixed his defense, but no one's perfect.

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 29 Sep 2007, 07:52

Taylor to win this one!

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 29 Sep 2007, 13:17

The arguments about Pavlik having not fought quality opposition prior to getting this shot isn't really an issue given that Taylor faced an over the hill Joppy and Marquez and B level junior middleweight Daniel Edouard before getting his shot at Hopkins....not really a who's who of the middleweight division.

Also anyone who has watched a decent number of Jermaine's fights will notice his habit of backing himself into the ropes when an opponent puts pressure on him. If Winky and Spinks could back him into the ropes numerous times I fail to see why Kelly can't.

As easy as Kelly is to hit, Taylor's aforementioned habit of going into the ropes and keeping his left hand at waist level could lead to him eating a lot of leather tonight.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 29 Sep 2007, 16:07

Wont be stopping up all night to watch it, might fall asleep during the F1 grand prix if I do - 9AM on SS2 (or is it SS1) will do me - Pavlik is a real KO specialist and I somehow feel Taylor will find himself on the end of a big one - Pavlik will make it a war and I cant see Taylor standing up to Pavliks onslaught - OK Taylor is better than Miranda who is a tough egg to crack but even with his better skills Pavlik will overpower him - I think Pavlik will rule the division and then move up - Does anyone think the heavier Froch could handle him, I dont.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 29 Sep 2007, 16:27

Pavlik is overrated but exciting. His defence is poor and this will cost him, Taylor to win by stoppage

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 30 Sep 2007, 07:47

Pavlik TKO 7

Great little scrap! Pavlik's definately a TV fighter and his easy-going persona will sit well with the Yanks. Very chatty in the post-fight interview as well. I wonder if there'll be a rematch?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 30 Sep 2007, 07:57

Taylor started well, but Pavlik just kept coming. Almost had him there in the second round. Why on earth did Taylor not take a knee after that right hand? The guy just has no fighting instincts. He was a sitting duck for a stoppage in that corner.

A rematch would sell well that was a decent fight. And Taylor could well win it he was controlling that fight up until getting caught.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 Sep 2007, 08:08

Taylor isn't going to win a rematch. He was pummeled down.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 30 Sep 2007, 08:11

He got caught and stopped but was much the better fighter up until that point. And almost stopped Pavlik in the second. And there's no chance he could win a rematch? Yeah ok then.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 30 Sep 2007, 08:12

Autobarn wrote:I don't think Pavlik is just some one dimenstional "Lacy". He's shown signs of ring generalship, patience, punch variety and of course has a lot of power and workrate. Would have been nice if they could have fixed his defense, but no one's perfect.

yeah pretty good summation there.

u don't ruin miranda like that unless ya quite handy.

pavlik's style was always gonna be trouble for taylor i thought.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 Sep 2007, 08:19

Miranda was badly overrated though just because some Americans thought he was robbed against Abraham when he broke Arthur's jaw.