BAD STOPPAGES

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 28 Sep 2007, 03:18

Some bad stoppages that came to my mind:

Leonard vs Hearns I: I think that Hearns could have still continue the fight.

Ali vs Lyle: Of course, fight gotta be stopped to protect Ali's legacy

Marciano vs Walcott II: What is this? The Italian Job?

markl · Post by **markl** » 28 Sep 2007, 04:40

Dokes/Weaver
Tyson/Ruddock 1
Chavez/Taylor

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Sep 2007, 05:55

Ali - Liston II

Whatever you think about this fight, even if it was a fix, the whole way it ended was a farce.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 28 Sep 2007, 08:48

elmersalsa wrote:Some bad stoppages that came to my mind:

Leonard vs Hearns I: I think that Hearns could have still continue the fight.

Ali vs Lyle: Of course, fight gotta be stopped to protect Ali's legacy

Marciano vs Walcott II: What is this? The Italian Job?

Hearns and Lyle weren't punching back. The referee was correct in stopping these fights.
Walcott was counted out.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 28 Sep 2007, 10:17

Hearns couldn't stand up straight in the 13th round and Taylor had lost a dangerous amount of blood, had his eye socket fractured and a tooth driven through his lip, but if he really wanted to continue against Chavez he could have said "I"M OK" and he couldn't do that.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:07

elmersalsa wrote:Some bad stoppages that came to my mind:

Leonard vs Hearns I: I think that Hearns could have still continue the fight.

Ali vs Lyle: Of course, fight gotta be stopped to protect Ali's legacy

Marciano vs Walcott II: What is this? The Italian Job?

As a big Ron Lyle fan I can't say that fight was a bad stoppage. Lyle was fumbling all over the ring and not fighting back, and the ref gave him a good deal of time to answer and he didn't do anything. Why he didn't at least throw a jab or take a knee I'll never understand.

Some ones I would say were bad:

Corrie Sanders-Michael Sprott: Sprott goes down from a body shot, is fine by 5 but stays down till 9 to make the most of his rest, gets up completely clear-headed (as he went down from a BODY shot) and the ref stops the fight.

Jameel McCline-Charles Shufford: Not a big fight but still one of the worst stoppages I've ever seen. Shufford pasting McCline around the ring the first 2 rounds, McCline comes back and KDs Shufford, but Charles gets up and is fine. McCline follows up with the most pitty-pat amateur punches I've ever seen, Shufford clearly not taking any punishment and the ref goes in and stops it. It was AWFUL.

Calzaghe-Manfredo, Calzaghe-Mitchell: Both def. premature, Calzaghe-Manfredo more ridiculous (but less important as to the outcome) the Mitchell stoppage more upsetting b/c Calzaghe had just been down earlier in the round and it was competetive.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:16

Wasn't Ottke the beneficiary of a good one? Memory fails me here.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:27

What bothers me in the Ali-Lyle stoppage is that Frazier bashed Ali all round the ring in the 11th of their fight but there was no stoppage.

Also, Lyle was winning on points. Hearns was ahead of Leonard. I think this is why these stoppages stand out. Both were premature IMO.

Hearns' problem was that he couldn't/wouldn't tie Leonard up. Look at the lock Leonard puts on Duran in the 2nd round of their first fight. If Hearns could have done that he'd have won BUT he didn't. I think this one is less controversial.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:21

Leonard bumped into Hearns in the 12th or 13th I think, and Hearns just fell over. Then Leonard hit him with a left hook on the chin in the 14th, and Hearns just staggered backward into the ropes while Leonard walked towards him with his arms raised. And as for holding, in the 2nd fight, Hearns didn't even receive a warning for the excessive holding he did, when Leonard had him hurt.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:25

Seamus wrote: Hearns didn't even receive a warning for the excessive holding he did, when Leonard had him hurt.

He wasn't going to make the same mistake twice.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 28 Sep 2007, 13:00

markl · Post by **markl** » 28 Sep 2007, 13:17

Seamus wrote:Leonard bumped into Hearns in the 12th or 13th I think, and Hearns just fell over. Then Leonard hit him with a left hook on the chin in the 14th, and Hearns just staggered backward into the ropes while Leonard walked towards him with his arms raised. And as for holding, in the 2nd fight, Hearns didn't even receive a warning for the excessive holding he did, when Leonard had him hurt.

Hearns dominated the 12th round. I am a huge Hitman fan. But the stoppage wasn't bad. He was on his way out.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Sep 2007, 13:49

Ezzard wrote:What bothers me in the Ali-Lyle stoppage is that Frazier bashed Ali all round the ring in the 11th of their fight but there was no stoppage.

Also, Lyle was winning on points. Hearns was ahead of Leonard. I think this is why these stoppages stand out. Both were premature IMO.

Hearns' problem was that he couldn't/wouldn't tie Leonard up. Look at the lock Leonard puts on Duran in the 2nd round of their first fight. If Hearns could have done that he'd have won BUT he didn't. I think this one is less controversial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZVWMO9T95I

Come on, after fumbling back after that first right hand at 1:30 . . . at 1:52 he badly staggers AGAIN and does NOTHING but eat punches until 2:05 . . .over 10 seconds later. Lyle couldn't even hold his hands up properly anymore to block punches. To the contrary Ali in the 11th rd vs Frazier was either tying Joe up, throwing some punches back, or moving away from Frazier's shots. Lyle was just a sitting duck.

GOOD stoppage.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Sep 2007, 14:57

DaveV17 wrote:Just watched Ali - Lyle on Youtube. I didn't have a problem with the stoppage when it happened and after watching it again, it still looks legit. I like the fight, Ali showed his versatiility. He moved for a few rounds (maybe 4th and 5th) and then he boxed. he slipped punches and he set himself and threw his punches with authority. Lyle had some strange habits, like moving his right arm out away form his chin when he jabbed, but overall, he fought well too, particulary when he got in close to Ali or cornered him. A good fight.

That fight is complete irony. Ali had a new aura after defeating Foreman with the rope-a-dope, and he kept telling Lyle "you will get tired, you'll punch yourself out". Lyle became obsessed with the fact he wouldn't fall for the rope-a-dope like Foreman did. The result was Lyle hardly surmounting any real offense throughout the fight and STILL getting exhausted b/c he was so tense and worried about gassing out/pacing himself!! Lyle was a better boxer than that fight shows. If he'd really sticked the jab hard and attacked the body like he usually did, he would've given himself a greater chance at winning.

monkeybusiness · Post by **monkeybusiness** » 28 Sep 2007, 15:16

Calzaghe - Mitchell....That one was just getting interesting

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 28 Sep 2007, 17:41

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Sep 2007, 22:34

Ali vs Lyle: Of course, fight gotta be stopped to protect Ali's legacy

No one was protecting anything but Ron Lyle when that fight was stopped.

The Ali-Frazier I comparison isn't totally illegitimate, but still, Frazier did not follow up on Ali the way Ali followed up on Lyle being hurt.

Leonard-Hearns I was not a bad stoppage. As for Leonard-Hearns II, if it had been a 15 rounder Leonard would have stopped Hearns again. But you could also say that if Leonard-Hearns I was a 12 rounder, like the second fight, that Hearns probably would have won a decision.

Anyway, I agree with many of the fights named here, not sure I have much to add. I'll just say that I'm split on the Chavez-Taylor stoppage. I wouldn't call it a bad stoppage, per se, but I don't think its unreasonable to say that Taylor could have been allowed to go on. Taylor didn't respond when Steele twice asked him if he was ok, so you can say it was fair to stop the fight. But then again, I've seen less important fights where a fighter was knocked down and asked three or four times if he was ok, and the fight was allowed to go on. Maybe they could have given Taylor another couple of seconds to respond, maybe not... I guess you could say I wouldn't be too angry either way.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 29 Sep 2007, 01:40

..i think one reason there are so many who think the ali-lyle stoppage was bad was that as he was hitting lyle ali motioned a few times for the referee to come in and stop it. well, the ref did stop it, but we don't know it it was because of ali's gesturing...a part of an ali con job...or of the referee was going to stop it on his own anway. i haven't watched it in a long time....as i recall it lyle wasn't hitting back and taking unanswered shots. but i think my recollection is right in that lyle protrested vigorously....that he wanted to go on and that he wasn't hurt. which he probably wasn't. he was one tough s.o.b. whatever....if it was too quick i think a few more punches in the same situation would haver brought about the stoppage....in just matter of seconds.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 29 Sep 2007, 02:01

elmersalsa wrote:Some bad stoppages that came to my mind:

Leonard vs Hearns I: I think that Hearns could have still continue the fight.

Ali vs Lyle: Of course, fight gotta be stopped to protect Ali's legacy

Marciano vs Walcott II: What is this? The Italian Job?

No way that Hearns could have continued.

The man was exhausted & wasn't firing back.

SRL was coming on strong & could have hurt him seriously, had the ref not stopped it.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Sep 2007, 09:42

Jaclem wrote:..i think one reason there are so many who think the ali-lyle stoppage was bad was that as he was hitting lyle ali motioned a few times for the referee to come in and stop it. well, the ref did stop it, but we don't know it it was because of ali's gesturing...a part of an ali con job...or of the referee was going to stop it on his own anway. i haven't watched it in a long time....as i recall it lyle wasn't hitting back and taking unanswered shots. but i think my recollection is right in that lyle protrested vigorously....that he wanted to go on and that he wasn't hurt. which he probably wasn't. he was one tough s.o.b. whatever....if it was too quick i think a few more punches in the same situation would haver brought about the stoppage....in just matter of seconds.

DId they have standing 8 counts back then?? If yes that may have been more appropriate.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Sep 2007, 10:10

Ambling Alp wrote:
Hearns and Lyle weren't punching back. .

That is rich.

Ali didn't "punch back" for whole rounds of that SAME fight.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Sep 2007, 10:17

dempseyfire wrote: The result was Lyle hardly surmounting any real offense throughout the fight

That is a winner.

Ali did NOTHING but lay on the ropes for the entire fight.

Lyle won every round by jabbing at Ali continually as Ali lay on the ropes.

The referee (as usual) was Ali's stooge.

Any competent referee would have warned Ali that he had to start fighting or he would have a point taken away.

The stoppage, for a heavyweight title fight, was a joke.

Compare with the ending of the Lyle-Foreman fight, which was NOT a title fight.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Sep 2007, 10:26

markl wrote:Dokes/Weaver
Tyson/Ruddock 1
Chavez/Taylor

Good ones.

ADD

Holmes-Weaver
Arguello-Bazooka Limon
Benny Leonard-Charley White
Benny Leonard-Willie Ritchie

Ref counts to nine and then claims loser didn't get up by the ten count:

Patterson-Johanssen III
Ali-Foreman

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Sep 2007, 10:32

The most obvious phony stoppage off all

would be the Kevin Howard-Ray Leonard farce.

Kevin Howard knocked Leonard flat on his back with a single right hand.

The referee didn't stop the fight.

But then ref stops the fight when Howard was not ever down?

Horseshit.

And then it turned out after the fight the three stooge 'judges' each gave Howard the round he flattened Leonard in by one point----

the same margin they gave Leonard ALL the other rounds of the fight.

In the interview after the fight, Kevin Howard said to Chris Shenkel, "He can't fight," (referring to Leonard) while the stooge announcer Shenkel was trying to give the ABCTV sales pitch for Leonard.

Kevin Howard was blacklisted for not going along with "the program" and didn't get another fight with anyone for over a year.

That was the absolute height of the reeking career of Sugar Ray Leonard.

Datsue · Post by **Datsue** » 29 Sep 2007, 11:20

Please excuse me if you think I'm being rude, mr granberry, but may I make some assumptions about you?

Are you about seventy-ish & white, & have followed the game for over half a century?

If I'm wrong then sorry, and please forgive the intrusion; I only brought it up because at times you sound a lot like my dad & several of his friends of that generation. They have the same bugbears about certain guys/fights.

Sorry if this seems too offensive; you just really reminded me of my old man, was all.

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