Boxing Monthlys All Time Great Super Middles List

[Max Molyneux]

Why does Roy Jones get the No 1 spot when he was hardly there? Toney and Lucas are the only names on his list worth mentioning too.

According to Farhood he gets the No 1 spot for beating Toney, defending 5 times and winning his belt at 25 then vacating at 28.

Seems he basically gets It on talent.

[Max Molyneux]

1. Roy Jones
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Nigel Benn
4. Chris Eubank
5. James Toney
6. Steve Collins
7. Sven Ottke
8. Frankie Liles
9. Chong Pal Park
10. Mikkel Kessler

Thats the list.

[states]

Hang on, aren't you the person who's always mentioning that people overrate achievements?

[Max Molyneux]

Yeah people over use the achievements logic but It still has to be use to asses fighters.

Jones lack of staying In Super Middleweight shouldn't put him In the No 1 spot no matter how good he Is.

[oliverfennell]

Jones is undeniably the best TALENT in that list, but does not have the best legacy at the weight. His best days were at LHW.

[Andy Mac]

Why does Roy Jones get the No 1 spot when he was hardly there? Toney and Lucas are the only names on his list worth mentioning too.

According to Farhood he gets the No 1 spot for beating Toney, defending 5 times and winning his belt at 25 then vacating at 28.

Seems he basically gets It on talent.

Because he is a yank like Farhood. Talented or not, he simply wasn't the best S Middle of his own era, never mind all time.

[Deserter]

1. Roy Jones
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Nigel Benn
4. Chris Eubank
5. James Toney
6. Steve Collins
7. Sven Ottke
8. Frankie Liles
9. Chong Pal Park
10. Mikkel Kessler

Thats the list.

As much as I've never been a fan of him, it's crazy to Ottke below Collins, and Kessler should already be above the likes of Park and Liles.
Interestingly, in the same issue of BM, it quotes Ottke's trainer as saying he wanted him to fight with Calzaghe, but Sven himself wasn't interested - given the source it looks like those who criticised Warren and/or Joe for this fight never happening have to acknowledge that Sven seems more to blame than them.

[STP]

I can't have Eubank ahead of Toney and Collins. Farhood is biased towards Eubank because he knew him when he was 19 and they kept in touch by phone and met up again at the McCallum-Collins fight in Boston.

How can you have Eubank ahead of Toney and Collins? He lost to Close, Benn, Amaral and Schommer clearly and clearly lost 11 out of 12 rounds in the second fight against Collins. Toney beat the fighters Eubank openly ducked in Barkley and Littles, and looked like the best fighter in the world doing it.

[yiddo14]

Prime for prime, Collins loses to everyone on that list.

He hit the jackpot by getting in the ring with finished fading versions of Benn and Eubank.

One of the most over rated "greats" of modern times.

[WildWaylon]

Its a bloody nonsense anyway comparing the careers of still active boxers with others that are still fighting to determine who is the best ever - Then to create a list combined with retired fighters and active fighters is an even bigger nonsense - Kessler I see is at the bottom - What if the unthinkable should happen, what would his position be be then - To my mind you can only sensibly compile such a list with retired fighters while mentioning a current fighter may change the top positions when his career is over - RJJ could drop below Joe if Joe was to have a sensational end to his career - Even then few of us would agree exactly to an all time top ten - Queens Bohemian Rhapsody or Robbie Williams Angels or whatever as the best ever pop recording or perhaps neither its all opinion.

[hitman_hatton1]

yeah toney ahead of eubank.

ottke ahead of collins as well.

as much as i hate ottke he did more than collins.

[Deserter]

Prime for prime, Collins loses to everyone on that list.

He hit the jackpot by getting in the ring with finished fading versions of Benn and Eubank.

One of the most over rated "greats" of modern times.

He's certainly no great, but I think he'd have comfortably beat the Parks of this world and I also think there's a case to be made that he'd have edged both Benn and Eubank at super-middle - Benn didn't have the same concussive power at Super Middle and Collins had a great 'beard', while even a prime Eubank would have struggled with Collins' workrate.

[harrygreb]

collins cannot be called a "great". no way. this list is so poor i dont know why i'm commenting at all

[STP]

Toney and Lucas are the only names on his list worth mentioning too

Lucus??

Malinga, Pazienza and Thornton are worth mentioning more than that guy.

[Deram]

1. Joe Calzaghe - 100
2. Sven Ottke - 80
3. Nigel Benn - 75
4. Chris Eubank - 70
5. Mikkel Kessler - 65
6. Roy Jones - 60
7. James Toney - 55
8. Steve Collins - 50
9. Frankie Liles - 35
10. Chong Pal Park - 30

I think this is the objective list. I really really dislike Ottke as a boxer. He had one of the worst styles ever and he even got one or two gifts (Reid and Larsen) towards the end of his carreer. However, he still cleaned out SMW more so than Calzaghe did in the years they had a two-horse race. Often calzaghe woudl fight the good ones after Ottke had already beaten them (often when they were undefeated). Too bad, but objectively he belongs in top 3. I have put numbers on each fighter to try to clarify how much a fighter is ahead or behind relative to others.

Some Americans will surely disagree with RJJ being at #7 all time. However, he really does not have the accomplishments to be ranked higher. Roy is one of my own favorit fighters and on ESB I have Roy, Ali and a couple more in my avatar. However, although Roy was extremely entertaining and very gifted - he just didn't accomplish enough at SMW to get the top spots.

[Marlin]

1. Roy Jones
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Nigel Benn
4. Chris Eubank
5. James Toney
6. Steve Collins
7. Sven Ottke
8. Frankie Liles
9. Chong Pal Park
10. Mikkel Kessler

Thats the list.

Roy Jones Jr would beat everyone on that list so he deserves to be number one, remember some people thought Toney would dominate him going into that fight.

[Autobarn]

Roy would have had things much tougher in this era I belive, and Liles actually had the style to beat him.

[STP]

1- Jones
2- Benn
3- Toney
4- Calzaghe
5- Collins

[STP]

Roy would have had things much tougher in this era I belive, and Liles actually had the style to beat him.

Liles did actually beat him in 1988, knocked him down as well

[Dirk Kelly]

I don't understand why Collins is so high on the list, didn't he have only something like 8 fights at SM, 4 against a faded Benn and Eubank and then retired instead of fighting Joe C.

[Autobarn]

Roy would have had things much tougher in this era I belive, and Liles actually had the style to beat him.

Liles did actually beat him in 1988, knocked him down as well

yeah, Liles did a Tarver before Tarver (in the amas) I believe. Nunn also had the style, size, speed combo, if not the discipline, to beat Jones. Otherwise Jones could look pretty untouchable.

[E]

Chong Pal Park has no justification for being there.

[MightyWarrior]

Yeah it's all bollox really, these lists run as a filler more than anything, or to get people talking....which it has

He lost his last and only fight at SM, but how many people would Gerald Mclellan have lost to on that list? Not many.

[Autobarn]

I don't understand why Collins is so high on the list, didn't he have only something like 8 fights at SM, 4 against a faded Benn and Eubank and then retired instead of fighting Joe C.

Yanks like him because he went to America to improve his skills. It's a symbolic thing IMO

[Max Molyneux]

Toney and Lucas are the only names on his list worth mentioning too

Lucus??

Malinga, Pazienza and Thornton are worth mentioning more than that guy.

Wasn't Paz a Lightweight though?