Decision where the winning fighter was not competitive

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Oct 2007, 08:32

I'm talking about a decision that was so bad that virtually no one agreed with it and it cost the judges or the ref long term credibility problems. This probably only happens at the novice or journeyman level right? I hope I don't see the "usual" high profile suspect fights here. Not even Richard Steele's stopping the Chavez Taylor fight should enter into this...it WAS at minimum a competitive fight. Though I think it was about the worst example of a ref probably doing the wrong thing. And as we know the decision would have gone for Taylor if not for just a few more seconds.

I really don't think there is an example of this on a top level basis.

Or is there?

markl · Post by **markl** » 03 Oct 2007, 08:44

Leon Spinks over Jessie Burnett. Hard pressed to find 2 rounds to give him out of sympathy.

Ramirez over Whitaker fits this bill imo.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 03 Oct 2007, 09:35

Roy Jones Jr vs Park Si-Hun. The judges were banned for some time or forever, I don't remember exactly.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 03 Oct 2007, 10:01

Burton-Augustus was completely one-sided for Emmanuel

Recently Diamond-Huerta on VS was one of the worst decisions I've ever seen. Huerta kicked his ass, knocked him down, and still lost the decision.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Oct 2007, 12:53

Senya13 wrote:Roy Jones Jr vs Park Si-Hun. The judges were banned for some time or forever, I don't remember exactly.

I saw that, and could never understand what the hell happened. I just figured though I have followed the sport all my life and loved it I guess just I didn't know crap about scoring an olympic fight........granberry would agree and add "or any other fight Buzz!!".

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 03 Oct 2007, 12:59

Joe Louis-Jersey Joe Walcott 1

I think that takes the cake when it comes to discussions like this. But then again there is a thin line between a straight out gift decision and a controversial one...

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 03 Oct 2007, 13:34

To some extent, Greg Page-George Chaplin ll.

markl · Post by **markl** » 03 Oct 2007, 13:40

Nile4000 wrote:To some extent, Greg Page-George Chaplin ll.

Page won maybe 6 rounds out of 22. That is being generous. But he was competetive.

Definite robbery though.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 03 Oct 2007, 13:55

HomicideHenry wrote:Joe Louis-Jersey Joe Walcott 1

I think that takes the cake when it comes to discussions like this. But then again there is a thin line between a straight out gift decision and a controversial one...

Louis was competetive, bad decision but not in this league. The Bomber won at least 6-7 rounds

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:35

dempseyfire wrote:
HomicideHenry wrote:Joe Louis-Jersey Joe Walcott 1

I think that takes the cake when it comes to discussions like this. But then again there is a thin line between a straight out gift decision and a controversial one...
Louis was competetive, bad decision but not in this league. The Bomber won at least 6-7 rounds

Yeah I'm trying to keep this thread to just the situations where it simply "could not be". Not the 6/7's or the 6/4's. I'm talkin' about where the winning fighter was truly not competitive yet somehow walks away a winner.

This would not include Mosely DLH II...or maybe even DLH-Trinidad or Sturm DLH for some examples. Each of these could be argued for with some degree of crediblity...as the "fog of the fight" simply did not render clarity.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:48

I'd add Patterson-Maxim. Floyd lost two rounds at most . . completely outpunched and outboxed Joey.

markl · Post by **markl** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:55

Burnett completely dominated Spinks.

The decision was like 115-113, 117-111, 116-112

When I heard them I couldn't believe anyone had Spinks that close and it went his way.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 03 Oct 2007, 17:07

If that be the case, that Cruiserweight fight between that Brown guy and whomever it was, that was terrible.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 03 Oct 2007, 17:54

I thought Ike Quartey gave Vernon Forrest a boxing lesson but Forrest got the decision.

I think James Toney-Michael Nunn is on the same level as Chavez-Taylor except I wouldn't say either was totally uncompetitive, maybe on the scorecards with how the judges were scoring them but in the actual fights themselves Toney and Chavez were both slowly wearing down their more active higher-landing opponents and finally found a few big shots to finish them off.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:20

I'm not sure if I'm taking the "not competitive" part too literally or not, but I wouldn't include Whitaker-Ramirez and Patterson-Maxim. I thought they were robberies, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fighter who got the decision wasn't competitive. Whitaker-Ramirez II strikes me as more of a fight that was "not competitive", though Whitaker got that decision.

Either way, I would say Holmes-Spinks II wasn't particularly competitive. Spinks really didn't do anything. Its not that Holmes kicked his ass or anything, but he actually fought while Spinks didn't do... anything.

I've only seen the fight once, a long time ago, so maybe my memory of it isn't clear, but I don't remember Spinks even trying. I thought that was a clear robbery, and not really a competitive fight.

markl · Post by **markl** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:38

I Feel Fine wrote:I'm not sure if I'm taking the "not competitive" part too literally or not, but I wouldn't include Whitaker-Ramirez and Patterson-Maxim. I thought they were robberies, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the fighter who got the decision wasn't competitive. Whitaker-Ramirez II strikes me as more of a fight that was "not competitive", though Whitaker got that decision.

Either way, I would say Holmes-Spinks II wasn't particularly competitive. Spinks really didn't do anything. Its not that Holmes kicked his ass or anything, but he actually fought while Spinks didn't do... anything.

I've only seen the fight once, a long time ago, so maybe my memory of it isn't clear, but I don't remember Spinks even trying. I thought that was a clear robbery, and not really a competitive fight.

I agree that Holmes won. He clearly won the first 8 rounds. The 9th was close. Spinks rallied hard. I gave him the last 7 rounds and I think you would be really hard pressed to find a round to give Larry in the last 5.

That fight was far more competitive then Whitaker/Ramirez. I only watched Pea/JLR once. But I thought it was an 11-1 type fight, going off of memory.

I don't own it or care to rewatch it. So I will take your word for it.

Holmes/Spinks 2 isn't close to fitting though. Spinks even had Larry reeling in the 14th and 15th.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:41

HomicideHenry wrote:If that be the case, that Cruiserweight fight between that Brown guy and whomever it was, that was terrible.

Dale Brown, and O'neil Bell.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:56

Yeah, again, I have a fuzzy memory of that fight. Maybe Spinks did better than I remember him doing. I should watch it again.

markl · Post by **markl** » 04 Oct 2007, 01:02

I Feel Fine wrote:Yeah, again, I have a fuzzy memory of that fight. Maybe Spinks did better than I remember him doing. I should watch it again.

Larry won, but Spinks rally was damn admirable.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Oct 2007, 11:40

Decagon wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:I'd add Patterson-Maxim. Floyd lost two rounds at most . . completely outpunched and outboxed Joey.
See, of the six rounds of that fight I've seen, I had it 3-2-1 for Maxim.

I'd add:

-Irene Pacheco vs. Masibulele Makepula: Makepula dominated the IBF flyweight title fight, but somehow Melvina Lethan had it 118-100 for Pacheco!
-Paul Burke vs. Felix Bwalya
-Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Frankie Randall II

We have argued about Maxim-Patterson before. I still can't believe you had Maxim doing that well. I am guessing that you saw the fight on ESPN Classic a few years ago like I did. (They skipped a couple of rounds. I saw it in a hotel room and didn't tape it like I normally would. I would like to see it again.) I couldn't give one round to Maxim, it was that one sided.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 04 Oct 2007, 13:46

Diamond WEAPON wrote:I thought Ike Quartey gave Vernon Forrest a boxing lesson but Forrest got the decision.

I think James Toney-Michael Nunn is on the same level as Chavez-Taylor except I wouldn't say either was totally uncompetitive, maybe on the scorecards with how the judges were scoring them but in the actual fights themselves Toney and Chavez were both slowly wearing down their more active higher-landing opponents and finally found a few big shots to finish them off.

On a side-note, I can't stand it when people say that "Nunn was kicking Toney's ass" and that the KO was a lucky punch. Toney was clearly landing a lot of punches, clearly slipping and blocking a large amount of Nunn's punches, and gradually wearing Nunn down. Toney clearly won the first round and by was down on the cards through most of the middle rounds but by the 8th was in definite control and swept the rounds until the KO. I don't remember my scorecard offhand but by the knockout it was a close fight.

Toney, like Chavez, were breaking their opponents down, although I would say Taylor was dominating in a scoring sense much moreso than Nunn was.

markl · Post by **markl** » 04 Oct 2007, 14:16

Toney was landing body shots. But 8-2 was about the best I could see for him on the scorecards. We remember completely different fights.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 05 Oct 2007, 01:50

..chavez/taylor was certainly competitive, especially when you consider taylor never recovered from the beating he took.....regardless of what you think of the stoppage.

...have never seen it....but many who did whose opinions i respect said pastrano was just told to run for 15 rounds against harold johnson...which he did.....and he'd win the decision....which he did...

as biased an coo coo as granberry is, he does know a lot about boxing and has some worthwhile information when he doesn't let his venom get in his way.....and i think he saw this fight and maybe he'll confirm or add to what i've written.

johnny saxton was busy but he mostly just went the distance against carmen basilio when the latter's title got stolen. this one did see.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 05 Oct 2007, 06:11

I see it regulary all over the world were the Local fighter is given a gift decision over an import.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 09 Oct 2007, 02:24

ben rabah v juan urango, urango won two rounds maybe