Calzaghe's Opponents: Rank

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 03 Dec 2003, 19:42

What, me, use a double entendre as a thread title? ;)

Anyway, can anyone tell me what the rankings of Calzaghe's better-known recent opponents were coming in to their respective fights? I'm curious as to just who he beat to deserve his BoxRec #1 supermiddle ranking.

Thanks,
Vike

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 03 Dec 2003, 19:52

Eric the Viking wrote:What, me, use a double entendre as a thread title? ;)

Anyway, can anyone tell me what the rankings of Calzaghe's better-known recent opponents were coming in to their respective fights? I'm curious as to just who he beat to deserve his BoxRec #1 supermiddle ranking.

Thanks,
Vike

BoxRec number one! How can a WBO champion be number one! You have to respect Sven Ottke's IBF and WBA titles more, regardless of the German's spoiling tactics and refusal to travel. The Ottke-Robin Reid fight on Saturday week will be the judge of this ranking in my opinion. Calzaghe barely outpointed Reid on a split decision.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 03 Dec 2003, 20:02

I stand corrected: in the latest BoxRec rankings, JC is #2, behind Ottke. Since neither has fought in several months, is that due to recent changes in the rankings formula?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 03 Dec 2003, 20:19

Eric the Viking wrote:I stand corrected: in the latest BoxRec rankings, JC is #2, behind Ottke. Since neither has fought in several months, is that due to recent changes in the rankings formula?

Are you on the beer tonight, Eric? Ottke fought Larsen in September.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 03 Dec 2003, 20:25

bennie wrote:
Eric the Viking wrote:I stand corrected: in the latest BoxRec rankings, JC is #2, behind Ottke. Since neither has fought in several months, is that due to recent changes in the rankings formula?
Are you on the beer tonight, Eric? Ottke fought Larsen in September.

Last time I checked, September was several months ago - is your British calendar not the same as our Norse one?

My point was that nothing has happened with these two that should've changed their respective rankings, ergo the rankings formula must've changed.

I wish I were on the beer, but I'm at work just now (bit after 4pm in California), and that seems to be frowned on here.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 04 Dec 2003, 04:58

An editor completing one of Ottke's opponents record could change the ratings.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 04 Dec 2003, 09:20

Eric the Viking wrote:
bennie wrote:
Eric the Viking wrote:I stand corrected: in the latest BoxRec rankings, JC is #2, behind Ottke. Since neither has fought in several months, is that due to recent changes in the rankings formula?
Are you on the beer tonight, Eric? Ottke fought Larsen in September.
I wish I were on the beer, but I'm at work just now (bit after 4pm in California), and that seems to be frowned on here.

It's 4pm in California. Good answer, Eric. It's dark at 4pm here.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 04 Dec 2003, 11:58

Blue wrote:An editor completing one of Ottke's opponents record could change the ratings.

A related question: if (say) some fighter Ottke recently beat who was ranked (say) #20 at the time goes on to score several impressive wins, could that beneift Ottke's rating? I.e. would that get retroactively factored into the strength-of-opponents part of Ottke's ranking? (Again, I'm just using Ottke as an example.)

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 04 Dec 2003, 11:59

bennie wrote:It's 4pm in California. Good answer, Eric. It's dark at 4pm here.

We get roughly an extra hour due to being further south (though San Jose is about 300 miles north of L.A., i.e. it's not SoCal). That probably cuts our wintertime depression & suicide rate to a small fraction of what it is for you guys.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 04 Dec 2003, 12:05

Eric the Viking wrote:
Blue wrote:An editor completing one of Ottke's opponents record could change the ratings.
A related question: if (say) some fighter Ottke recently beat who was ranked (say) #20 at the time goes on to score several impressive wins, could that beneift Ottke's rating? I.e. would that get retroactively factored into the strength-of-opponents part of Ottke's ranking? (Again, I'm just using Ottke as an example.)

Most definitely. Ottke beat Glencoffe Johnson, who has since proved to be an excellent light-heavy as an example. He's also beaten Silvio Branco, now the WBA light-heavy champ as another example. Ottke is no modern great style-wise, but statistically he is. You can't knock a guy who's made 19 successful defences of his IBF title and added the WBA title for good measure in the summer. He beat Brewer and Mitchell when they were champions. Calzaghe beat them as challengers. That makes a difference. Ottke's definitely number one in my opinion.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Dec 2003, 12:11

bennie wrote:Most definitely. Ottke beat Glencoffe Johnson, who has since proved to be an excellent light-heavy as an example. He's also beaten Silvio Branco, now the WBA light-heavy champ as another example. Ottke is no modern great style-wise, but statistically he is. You can't knock a guy who's made 19 successful defences of his IBF title and added the WBA title for good measure in the summer. He beat Brewer and Mitchell when they were champions. Calzaghe beat them as challengers. That makes a difference. Ottke's definitely number one in my opinion.

Agreed, just look at the guys he's faught as Voluntary defences this year! We have Starie (who was a replacement), okay it wasn't the best fighter but we all knew Starie's got skills it was a lose-lose fight for Sven. Then he had the still dangerous Larsen, who has gone on to become European champion. Next up is Robin Reid, a guy ranked in the top ten by boxing monthly. Sven, last year beat Anthony Mundine.

Sven is #1 at this moment.

theguvnor · Post by **theguvnor** » 05 Dec 2003, 19:41

How can a WBO champion be number one!

I agree that the WBO is an inferior Organisation. But should Anthony Mundine be rated above JC just because he holds the WBA belt.

The WBO have had some good champions over the years, (and some poor ones). Benn, Eubank, Hamed, Michael Bentt, Freitas, Klitschko, Harrison, MAB
(ps, just kidding about Michael Bentt )

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 05 Dec 2003, 19:57

theguvnor wrote:
How can a WBO champion be number one!
I agree that the WBO is an inferior Organisation. But should Anthony Mundine be rated above JC just because he holds the WBA belt.

The WBO have had some good champions over the years, (and some poor ones). Benn, Eubank, Hamed, Michael Bentt, Freitas, Klitschko, Harrison, MAB
(ps, just kidding about Michael Bentt )

Good post, theGuvnor. It's true you can't judge a man on the title he holds, and there's no way I'd rate Mundine over Calzaghe. But the WBO has little or no respect in world boxing terms, and that should always be acknowledged when comparing world champions in the same division. Yes, there have been good WBO champions, but by and large the WBO title is just a stepping stone to the legitimate big three titles (WBA, WBC or IBF). The fact Calzaghe has never sought to step up has attracted criticism, because, let's face it, Calzaghe is better than his title.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 06 Dec 2003, 05:03

Eric the Viking Posted: 04 Dec 2003 15:59
A related question: if (say) some fighter Ottke recently beat who was ranked (say) #20 at the time goes on to score several impressive wins, could that beneift Ottke's rating? I.e. would that get retroactively factored into the strength-of-opponents part of Ottke's ranking? (Again, I'm just using Ottke as an example.)

Unfortunately, (IMO) the answer to your question is NO. :(

What U described is part of the merit system, which is the way it should be if U want to see a clearer picture of where everybody stands.

BoxRec uses a spin-off of the chess ranking system, which awards points for wins & deducts for losses. The actual points manipulated depend on the points the fighters carry into the match.

This is why U see old warriors like McCall & unproven prospects like Hatton being overrated.

Computer rank is working on tweaking up the system at present.
http://www.boxrec.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13029
A further search on rankings will bring up other threads where it’s been discussed.

Calzaghe's Opponents: Rank

Calzaghe's Opponents: Rank

Re: Calzaghe's Opponents: Rank