Are there any significant names Ali didn't fight?

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 04 Oct 2007, 05:53

Ali fought everybody of note from the late 60s, through the 70s, and some who remained notable in the 80s. He fought his peers (Foreman, Frazier, Liston), titlists (Terrell, Ellis, Norton), the major contenders (Young, Cooper, Quarry, Shavers, Bugner, Williams), the old guard (Patterson, Moore) and the next generation (Holmes, Berbick, Spinks).

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

SteveO · Post by **SteveO** » 04 Oct 2007, 06:53

He fought everybody of note......and a lot of them two or three times!
I believe Ali was going to fight Thad Spencer after Zora Folley but of course he was banned before that could happen.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Oct 2007, 11:18

Probably the best fighter that didn't he fight was Eddie Machen.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 04 Oct 2007, 23:47

Josse Torres
Gregorio Peralta

Not that they would have been challenges, though they are
names as such.

I guess the late 1970s and early 80s Ali shouldn't count.
Gerrie Coetzer
John Tate
Mike Weaver

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 05 Oct 2007, 00:57

I agree with alp that Machen is the only name. Machen, however, lost to Patterson and to Terrell, so Ali fought those men instead. Other than him, Ali fought basically every name of the two era's he fought in.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2007, 18:49

This discovery will be very dissapointing to granberry.

Is there any name we can bring up and "manufacture" the threat that was avoided? I'll go to work on this. There must be one out there....someone who would have been champ if only Ali would have had the back bone to face him/them. Maybe there were dozens but through some conspiracy they were all drugged, duped, kidnapped, poisoned and/or plauged in a manner designed to make Ali appear to be better than he was.

The fact that there wasn't anyone of consequence that he didn't face proves that something is very wrong. I would say this very odd fact alone proves the conspiracy and I know granberry would agree. But I'm going to dig deeper into this and find who it was that was "manipulated" out of his rightful championship. The truth is out there.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 05 Oct 2007, 18:52

BoxBuzz wrote:This discovery will be very dissapointing to granberry.

Is there any name we can bring up and "manufacture" the threat that was avoided? I'll go to work on this. There must be one out there....someone who would have been champ if only Ali would have had the back bone to face him/them. Maybe there were dozens but through some conspiracy they were all drugged, duped, kidnapped, poisoned and/or plauged in a manner designed to make Ali appear to be better than he was.

The fact that there wasn't anyone of consequence that he didn't face proves that something is very wrong. I would say this very odd fact alone proves the conspiracy and I know granberry would agree. But I'm going to dig deeper into this and find who it was that was "manipulated" out of his rightful championship. The truth is out there.

Ali never fought Klitschko

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2007, 19:11

KO Artist wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:This discovery will be very dissapointing to granberry.

Is there any name we can bring up and "manufacture" the threat that was avoided? I'll go to work on this. There must be one out there....someone who would have been champ if only Ali would have had the back bone to face him/them. Maybe there were dozens but through some conspiracy they were all drugged, duped, kidnapped, poisoned and/or plauged in a manner designed to make Ali appear to be better than he was.

The fact that there wasn't anyone of consequence that he didn't face proves that something is very wrong. I would say this very odd fact alone proves the conspiracy and I know granberry would agree. But I'm going to dig deeper into this and find who it was that was "manipulated" out of his rightful championship. The truth is out there.
Ali never fought Klitschko

were either of them even born at that time?

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 05 Oct 2007, 19:59

Ali win the World Title in his 20th fight (!) Previously, he beat Alonzo Johnson, Alex Miteff (KO), Willi Besmanoff (KO), Sonny Banks (KO), George Logan (KO), Billy Daniels (KO), Alejandro Lavorante (KO), Archie Moore (KO), Doug Jones and Henry Cooper (KO) (!!!) in only three years of career...

Never fought Ingemar Johansson, Eddie Machen, Gregorio Peralta, but they are only a few of all the notable he win

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 05 Oct 2007, 22:12

He never faught Batman, I guess he thought a win over Superman was good enough.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 05 Oct 2007, 22:49

But he ko'ed Robin in the first!

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Oct 2007, 23:35

Never fought Ingemar Johansson

Maybe not in a professional fight, but during the early 1960's before the rubber match with Patterson, Ali (then Clay) had a two round exhibition with Ingemar Johansson.

Henry Clark was another, that Ali never fought in a professional fight, I believe. Clark was defeated by Wepner, which lead to the #1 contender shot at the winner of Ali-Foreman.

Then of course, 1978-1979 (before Ali officially retired) I believe Gerrie Coetzee campaigned to fight Ali for the WBA title, but it never happened.

Ali also never was able to pull off a pro fight deal with Teofilio Stevenson, or with Wilt Chamberlain either...but I don't believe basketball players and amateur greats qualify in this.

Jack Boddell never came off either, and there was rumors for a time that Ali was to fight him, being that he was British champ...

Ali virtually fought all the name players, but never faced guys like Charlie Polite, Dino Dennis, Jerry Judge, and other journeyman of note.

But theres no question, least without the notion of a Coetzee/Weaver/Tate fight scenario in the late 70's and early 80's...that Ali would have defeated all the men named.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 05 Oct 2007, 23:49

Ali, or Clay at the time, supposedly schooled Johannson in sparring. Not necessarily surprising, but Clay had only been a pro for a year at that point, while Johannson had been champion and was about to again challenge for the title.

Maybe if Johannson had fought on longer and had stayed a contender they might have met in a pro fight.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 06 Oct 2007, 08:30

"Henry Clark was another, that Ali never fought in a professional fight, I believe. Clark was defeated by Wepner, which lead to the #1 contender shot at the winner of Ali-Foreman."

Homicide, Henry Clark never fought Chuck Wepner. Wepner broke into the ratings with a gift decision over Ernie Terrell granted by the myopic Harold Valan. Wepner held his ranking by beating a few journeyman, the best being Randy Neuman who was ahead but lost on a cut (talk about ironic). He was only ranked 9th or 10th when Ali defended against him.

Scartissue

tennessee · Post by **tennessee** » 06 Oct 2007, 08:32

ali's opponets were some of the greatest ever, and two of his sparring partners became heavyweight champions. thats why he is the greatest.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 07 Oct 2007, 15:39

tennessee wrote:ali's opponets were some of the greatest ever, and two of his sparring partners became heavyweight champions. thats why he is the greatest.

It's a perfect synthesis

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 08 Oct 2007, 00:40

Ali was a great fighter and he probably fought them all. But he had more losses in his record than what his record really appears.

Out of his 5 losses (Frazier, Norton, Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick) we got to add that he REALLY LOST TO THESE FIGHTERS:

Jimmy Young
Ken Norton (twice after the first fight)
Earnie Shavers

Like it or not, he should have had 8 or 9 losses instead of 5 in his record. The fight with Doug Jones??? Well, I think Ali won that one no matter how granberry feels about that.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 08 Oct 2007, 01:03

Ali did not lose the second Norton fight, and though I gave the fight to Shavers that fight was hardly a robbery, many, maybe most, had Ali winning. You'll have to amend the records of a lot of other fighters before you start meddling with Ali's.

Ali didn't get any more of a gift in the third Norton fight than Duran did against Barkley.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 08 Oct 2007, 01:47

Didn't Roy Jones challenge him at some point?

But Roy backed out, because the money wasn't right.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 08 Oct 2007, 23:40

I Feel Fine wrote:

Ali did not lose the second Norton fight, and though I gave the fight to Shavers that fight was hardly a robbery, many, maybe most, had Ali winning. You'll have to amend the records of a lot of other fighters before you start meddling with Ali's.

Ali didn't get any more of a gift in the third Norton fight than Duran did against Barkley.

Ali vs Norton II...I would not be surprised if Norton won all those fights. I saw Ali vs Norton I and III, and Norton won clearly. According to Dave, Ali lost the second fight too. I would not be surprised if I see that fight that Norton is the victor.

The Shavers fight, many people thought Shavers won. So, if the judges were more leaneant, we now would have seen his record with at least 8 or 9 losses in Ali's ledger.

As for Duran-Barkley, I recommend you to watch it again since you like to see Duran's fights on DVD. Duran clearly whupped him, being over the hill and 37 years old.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 08 Oct 2007, 23:58

Boxing is scored on a rounds basis, in case you don't know. I had Barkley beating Duran by the same margin I had Norton winning the third fight... three rounds... and Duran-Barkley was only a 12 rounder. Again, you'll have to amend a lot of records before you start tampering with Ali's.

I think I've made myself clear on Ali-Norton II and Ali-Shavers. Ali's career is overanalyzed, always has been, and anything he does or doesn't do gets magnified. Those fights wouldn't be considered quite so controversial if it was another fight, or at least the second Norton fight wouldn't be.

If you think Ali-Norton III and Ali-Young and Ali-Shavers are Ali's defining fights, you have a lot to learn about boxing and what happens to a fighter over the course of a long career. Seen Holyfield in the last few years?

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 09 Oct 2007, 00:02

As an Ali and Duran fan, I got to say that Ali got too much leeway by the judges, media and fans alike. He did a lot of ILEGAL TACTICS in the ring like holding behind the neck and the referees never deducted a point in almost none of his fights. Another fighter that holds behind the neck would have been disqualified a long time ago...Great fighter though, one of my favorites like I said before.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 09 Oct 2007, 00:05

Are you f-cking stupid? Illegal tactics? Have you even seen a Duran fight? Holding behind the head is nothing compared to some of Duran's tactics.

Ali got two gifts in his career, you people make it sound like half of his decisions were robberies. Come off it.

I sort of love the irony of hearing people talk about Ali like he was some sort of media creation. Ali in his prime was the most hated fighter in boxing history, and the media never stopped ripping him. Get off the granberry bandwagon.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 09 Oct 2007, 02:30

elmersalsa wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:

Ali did not lose the second Norton fight, and though I gave the fight to Shavers that fight was hardly a robbery, many, maybe most, had Ali winning. You'll have to amend the records of a lot of other fighters before you start meddling with Ali's.

Ali didn't get any more of a gift in the third Norton fight than Duran did against Barkley.
Ali vs Norton II...I would not be surprised if Norton won all those fights. I saw Ali vs Norton I and III, and Norton won clearly. According to Dave, Ali lost the second fight too. I would not be surprised if I see that fight that Norton is the victor.

The Shavers fight, many people thought Shavers won. So, if the judges were more leaneant, we now would have seen his record with at least 8 or 9 losses in Ali's ledger.

As for Duran-Barkley, I recommend you to watch it again since you like to see Duran's fights on DVD. Duran clearly whupped him, being over the hill and 37 years old.

i own the ali-norton trilogy on vhs, watched them many time. i scored fight II to ALI by two points, however i scored fight III to norton by 3 or 4 points

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 09 Oct 2007, 02:46

elmersalsa wrote:As an Ali and Duran fan, I got to say that Ali got too much leeway by the judges, media and fans alike. He did a lot of ILEGAL TACTICS in the ring like holding behind the neck and the referees never deducted a point in almost none of his fights. Another fighter that holds behind the neck would have been disqualified a long time ago...Great fighter though, one of my favorites like I said before.

Elmo, if you are an Ali fan, how come you NEVER have anything good to say about him?

Come on, tell me some of the things that make Ali a great fighter and make you an Ali fan.