Froch on the outside looking in

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 14:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think he should do too, Manfredo is small, static and easy to hit, ideal conditions for Lacy.

Indeed, Manfredo is not a supermiddle in my eyes. Seems to be the trend these days to blame weight and move up after a defeat but many thought he beat Mora in the rematch. Perhaps he does struggle to make 160 but he certainly didn't look that big against Calzaghe.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » 15 Oct 2007, 15:50

If Lacy cant beat Manfredo hes got no chance of ever returning to championship level.

The winner of this would be ideal for Froch, even if it is Manfredo he would at least get more exposure and could be the final stepping stone to a world title

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:04

I honestly think Froch is tailor made for Lacy. While everyone is down on Lacy after the Calzaghe drubbing he couldn't touch Calzaghe that night who fought a perfect fight using angles and movement. Froch's hands down style with a static head and minimal footwork is perfect for a guy like Lacy to exploit IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lacy KO him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:09

STP wrote:Remember, Calzaghe only won a title when he was 34.

Bullshit. No one complains when Benn and Eubank held the WBO.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:10

Max Molyneux wrote:
STP wrote:Remember, Calzaghe only won a title when he was 34.
Bullshit. No one complains when Benn and Eubank held the WBO.

Then again they didn't fight Kid Fire McIntyre or Tocker Pudwill!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:13

What champion Isn't guilty of fighting journymen for title defences?

It's not like I disagree with you either.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:14

No champion has done it quite like Calzaghe though you have to admit.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:16

Doubt that.

Guys like Floyd have picked fighters they could box while shouting to the commentators what his favourite team Is.

The Klitschko brothers have done some bad handpicking as well.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:31

Terrible examples, neither of the Klitschko's or Mayweather have defended a world title against anyone as bad as Pudwill, McIntyre or Thornberry. Not even close. Try again!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 16:37

So fighters Botha, Brusseles and Ray Austin are actually good?

In their not title fights most of the opposition were as bad.

Vitali did defend against unknowns when he was WBO champ.

Mundine fought some Argie journymen before his eye problems too.

Hatton fighting Urango too.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 17:11

Max Molyneux wrote:So fighters Botha, Brusseles and Ray Austin are actually good?

In their not title fights most of the opposition were as bad.

Vitali did defend against unknowns when he was WBO champ.

Mundine fought some Argie journymen before his eye problems too.

Hatton fighting Urango too.

Come on all those guys are world class or thereabouts or at least competing in world class bouts. Urango was a champion FFS! McIntyre and Pudwill are CLUB FIGHTERS.

How on earth you can bring up Mayweather opponents in comparison to the shit Calzaghe has faced is beyond me. Mayweather's resume and world championship record is light years ahead of Calzaghe's.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 18:45

Why use a belt to justify Urango? You yourself after that fight was saying Hatton's career after Tszyu was overrated. Urango was a boy novice.

I'm not talking about Floyd's whole record just some of his opponents.

The Argie Mundine fought was not world class.

So ok, If those guys are competing In world class bouts then you could say the same for Mc Intyre and Pudwill for they fought Ottke and Joe who were and are world class Super Middles then.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 15 Oct 2007, 18:47

Max Molyneux wrote:Why use a belt to justify Urango? You yourself after that fight was saying Hatton's career after Tszyu was overrated. Urango was a boy novice.

I'm not talking about Floyd's whole record just some of his opponents.

The Argie Mundine fought was not world class.

So ok, If those guys are competing In world class bouts then you could say the same for Mc Intyre and Pudwill for they fought Ottke and Joe who were and are world class Super Middles then.

Bollocks. How can you use the Calzaghe fight to try and justify McIntyre as having fought in world class when I'm trashing him as a Calzaghe opponent? The mind boggles.

Urango is a way better fighter than Pudwill or McIntyre do you agree?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 15 Oct 2007, 18:55

No Urango Is probably an NABF American Level fighter.

Bollocks. How can you use the Calzaghe fight to try and justify McIntyre as having fought in world class when I'm trashing him as a Calzaghe opponent? The mind boggles.

Wasn't justifying, I was merely saying that If fighters like Brueseles, Botha and Austin can be considered good enough for who they fought then why aren't those two good? Surely there as weak as Pudwill and Mc Intrye. and the way they were outclassed on world level proves that.

I was using Ottke as an example to since he fought Pudwill.

Urango was a paper IBF champion picking up Ricky's old belt and most thought he got a gift decision.

Fighting Urango was not moral, at least Calzaghe put Pudwill and McIntrye out of theres misery by stopping them. Hatton pretends he has a chest Infection and does excessive holding.

Belts and fighting champs are not always a way to justify opponents as good or better than someone else. Even you use that logic when Calzaghe fights someone bad.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Oct 2007, 03:42

Max Molyneux wrote:No Urango Is probably an NABF American Level fighter.

Bollocks. How can you use the Calzaghe fight to try and justify McIntyre as having fought in world class when I'm trashing him as a Calzaghe opponent? The mind boggles.
Wasn't justifying, I was merely saying that If fighters like Brueseles, Botha and Austin can be considered good enough for who they fought then why aren't those two good? Surely there as weak as Pudwill and Mc Intrye. and the way they were outclassed on world level proves that.

I was using Ottke as an example to since he fought Pudwill.

Urango was a paper IBF champion picking up Ricky's old belt and most thought he got a gift decision.

Fighting Urango was not moral, at least Calzaghe put Pudwill and McIntrye out of theres misery by stopping them. Hatton pretends he has a chest Infection and does excessive holding.

Belts and fighting champs are not always a way to justify opponents as good or better than someone else. Even you use that logic when Calzaghe fights someone bad.

Yet again you show your shortsightedness for all things Calzaghe. If you really think Pudwill and McIntyre are on the same level as Austin, Botha and Bruselles they you are clearly delluded. McIntyre is a backwater clubfighter FFS!

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 16 Oct 2007, 03:46

I hate to break it to everyone but trying to use Vitali as a benchmark for solid defences is a flawed strategy.

I oculd easily make an argument that he never beat a top ten contender in his entire career.

Clearly, Calzaghe has to be regarded as holding a title as WBO champion, his own ability further enhanced the belt's credentials.

But yeh, he faced some bums. But so did Joe Louis. So did Ali.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Oct 2007, 03:50

Everyone has fought bums in their career, very few if any fighters have made half their world championship career out of it.

Let's hope it really is big fights from here on in. He is saying if he beats Kessler he is going to ditch the belts and go after the big fights - Hopkins etc. But he said the same thing before the Lacy fight and since then we've had Manfredo and Bika.

Last chance saloon!

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 16 Oct 2007, 11:53

IMO Froch is the only fighter out there capable of beating Joe Calzaghe...

And he would batter Lacy, Manfredo, Redi et al....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Oct 2007, 12:48

Froch is still very much unproven on the world stage.