MUHAMMAD ALI VS TEFILO STEVENSON
MUHAMMAD ALI VS TEFILO STEVENSON
after reading about the fight wanted between stevenson and ali do you think that stevenson could have won this fight? do you think it is a shame we never got to see stevenson fight as a pro against the best era of heavyweights how do you think he would of gone
..if stevenson had turned pro and trained like a pro with a good trainer and worked his way successfully through some lesser heavyweights and got to the top he might have been a good fighter, but there is no way to know. as it was, one any one of his olympic fights if his opponent hadn't shown up and jerry quarry was sitting in the audience, quarry could have changed from his street clothes, offered to be the opponent, and got into the ring and kayoed stevenson in the first or second round.
-
Syntax Error
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9008
- Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 08:00
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
I think the fight was proposed, actually, around 1978-1979. What Ali proposed was for Stevenson to turn pro, and make his debut against Ali for the title. What team Stevenson wanted was a series of three or five round bouts over the period of a week (I think) and the one who came out on top more frequently would become the champion of the world.
In either case it didn't happen, and it was originally blamed on the premise that Cuba was communist, and since he wasn't allowed to be a professional, Stevenson gave up hope of turning pro, saying he wouldn't go against his government.
Later on, before Ali retired in 1979, he eventually had an exhibition match with NFL player Lyle Alzado, who had gotten fed up with his contract in football and figured he could do well as a boxer. It was an eight round match. Ali "won" the fight by decision.
I imagine the logic is, since Ali went the distance twice with Spinks who was only 7-0-1, and was slaughtered in the Holmes fight in 1980, that Ali would have been right there for the taking. Also, around this time, Ali was being called out by Gerrie Coetzee for the WBA title he just won back from Spinks.
Also, it must be noted, before Ali retired (1978-1979) he had several exhibition bouts with Scott LeDoux and British title holder John L. Gardner, to name two. They were in the 5-8 round range. Ali was in terrible shape, but wasn't in any real danger.
I think had the fight been a professional one, and rules changed (like with Dempsey-Tunney) and had the bout 10 rounds rather than 12 or 15, I think Stevenson would have won it, only for the fact by this time, Ali was only able to come on strong in the latter rounds. Stamina and toughness was pretty much all he had at that time.
Now had it been 15 rounds, yes, Ali would have beaten him. But had it also been the format Stevenson wanted with a series of three and five round bouts, Stevenson would have either won easily or would have appeared to have been the crisper, better boxer in those fights.
In either case it didn't happen, and it was originally blamed on the premise that Cuba was communist, and since he wasn't allowed to be a professional, Stevenson gave up hope of turning pro, saying he wouldn't go against his government.
Later on, before Ali retired in 1979, he eventually had an exhibition match with NFL player Lyle Alzado, who had gotten fed up with his contract in football and figured he could do well as a boxer. It was an eight round match. Ali "won" the fight by decision.
I imagine the logic is, since Ali went the distance twice with Spinks who was only 7-0-1, and was slaughtered in the Holmes fight in 1980, that Ali would have been right there for the taking. Also, around this time, Ali was being called out by Gerrie Coetzee for the WBA title he just won back from Spinks.
Also, it must be noted, before Ali retired (1978-1979) he had several exhibition bouts with Scott LeDoux and British title holder John L. Gardner, to name two. They were in the 5-8 round range. Ali was in terrible shape, but wasn't in any real danger.
I think had the fight been a professional one, and rules changed (like with Dempsey-Tunney) and had the bout 10 rounds rather than 12 or 15, I think Stevenson would have won it, only for the fact by this time, Ali was only able to come on strong in the latter rounds. Stamina and toughness was pretty much all he had at that time.
Now had it been 15 rounds, yes, Ali would have beaten him. But had it also been the format Stevenson wanted with a series of three and five round bouts, Stevenson would have either won easily or would have appeared to have been the crisper, better boxer in those fights.
-
ringsider
- Heavyweight
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Ironically, it was a guy on drugs, with limited skill who smoked crack who defeated Ali in 1978 and went the distance, in even worse shape than the first time in the rematch. 
But no, 6'5" 215 pound Teofilio Stevenson who was a 2x Olympic Gold Medalist at this time, couldn't defeat the Ali of 1978-1979...
Please, lay down the bong
But no, 6'5" 215 pound Teofilio Stevenson who was a 2x Olympic Gold Medalist at this time, couldn't defeat the Ali of 1978-1979...
Please, lay down the bong
-
ringsider
- Heavyweight
Teo was very likely the all-time best amateur heavyweight/super heavyweight ever during his incredible Olympic run. But, AMATEUR is the operative word here.
While on paper it would appear that he would've made an easy & successful transition into the professional game, there are guarentees in boxing. It's like that cliche adage about contests that look like blow outs on paper in the NFL, but turn out to be big upsets come Sunday afternoon " That's why they play the games".
Being a big cuban with an impressive simon pure record & some KO wins over future world champs while they were amateurs doesn't mean one's destined for professional greatness. Or even modest championship success. One only has to look at the career of Jorge Luis Gonzales for proof of that.
Then, there was the top ranked US amateur heavyweight who gave Stevenson a couple of very tough fights in those wonderful old USA VS THE WORLD telecasts on ABC back in the day, by the name of Jimmy Clark. He was such a bright prospect that he was considered to be head & shoulders above both Greg Page & Tony Tubbs as far as his future was concerned. Infact, Howard Cosell made a special announcement on live prime time television about Clark signing with Angelo Dundee from the Ray Leonard locker room just before his title defense against Davey "Boy" Green.
Well, unfortunately, the blue chip amateur never got anywhere NEAR a world title like both Page & Tubbs did, much less becoming the "next great heavyweight". Sad fact is, other than one or two appearances in some undercard action during TOP RANK BOXING telecasts on ESPN, poor Clark never even made it back onto TV after that big announcement from the Sugar Ray locker room. That was his biggest moment as a pro.
Many world class amateurs DO make it as top professionals obviously, but just as many & more, do NOT. We'll never know which ol' Teo would've been.
But, in all of our pondering & all of our attempts at thorough assessments, we can't forget to include Stevenson's losses into the equation along with all of his brilliant KOs & his gold medals. The KO losses to that Russian fellow that wasn't allowed to represent the USSR in the Olympics for some reason & even those later on in his career to men like Paolo Vidoz.
Teo had a tremendous right hand, some terrific skills & he deserves many of the accolades that are given him all these years later, but he also had the sort of vulnerabilies that seasoned pros would've been more than happy & quite capable to take advantage of.
While on paper it would appear that he would've made an easy & successful transition into the professional game, there are guarentees in boxing. It's like that cliche adage about contests that look like blow outs on paper in the NFL, but turn out to be big upsets come Sunday afternoon " That's why they play the games".
Being a big cuban with an impressive simon pure record & some KO wins over future world champs while they were amateurs doesn't mean one's destined for professional greatness. Or even modest championship success. One only has to look at the career of Jorge Luis Gonzales for proof of that.
Then, there was the top ranked US amateur heavyweight who gave Stevenson a couple of very tough fights in those wonderful old USA VS THE WORLD telecasts on ABC back in the day, by the name of Jimmy Clark. He was such a bright prospect that he was considered to be head & shoulders above both Greg Page & Tony Tubbs as far as his future was concerned. Infact, Howard Cosell made a special announcement on live prime time television about Clark signing with Angelo Dundee from the Ray Leonard locker room just before his title defense against Davey "Boy" Green.
Well, unfortunately, the blue chip amateur never got anywhere NEAR a world title like both Page & Tubbs did, much less becoming the "next great heavyweight". Sad fact is, other than one or two appearances in some undercard action during TOP RANK BOXING telecasts on ESPN, poor Clark never even made it back onto TV after that big announcement from the Sugar Ray locker room. That was his biggest moment as a pro.
Many world class amateurs DO make it as top professionals obviously, but just as many & more, do NOT. We'll never know which ol' Teo would've been.
But, in all of our pondering & all of our attempts at thorough assessments, we can't forget to include Stevenson's losses into the equation along with all of his brilliant KOs & his gold medals. The KO losses to that Russian fellow that wasn't allowed to represent the USSR in the Olympics for some reason & even those later on in his career to men like Paolo Vidoz.
Teo had a tremendous right hand, some terrific skills & he deserves many of the accolades that are given him all these years later, but he also had the sort of vulnerabilies that seasoned pros would've been more than happy & quite capable to take advantage of.
-
yiddo14
- Heavyweight
Yeah, I wouldn't deminish Stevenson's accomplishments as cavalierly as that. No matter how old they may have been at the time, he did beat the very best that the US could throw at him & I don't believe a single one managed to beat him in between his loss to Bobick in the '72 Pan Am games & Craig Payne in a duel meet sometime in the mid to late '80s.
During that stretch he beat plenty of good American amateurs in Woody Clark, Michael Dokes, John Tate, Jimmy Clark, Tony Tubbs & others.
During that stretch he beat plenty of good American amateurs in Woody Clark, Michael Dokes, John Tate, Jimmy Clark, Tony Tubbs & others.
-
tagjohnson
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 281
- Joined: 14 Jul 2005, 09:56
I did see Stevenson fight a couple of times. I saw a very big, very slow, stand up power puncher with good basic skills and decent hand speed. Think Lennox Lewis without the charisma. Seriously not only do I not see Teo beating Ali I don't see him as a top ten fighter in the seventies. The Big Three, Ali, Foreman, Frazier all kill him. Quarry and Young counterpunch him silly. We'll never know about Stevenson's chin or endurance but Lyle, Norton, and Shavers would have no problem getting to him and if those guys can get to you, you are going home early.
I have the tape of two of Clark's fights with Teo, and you could make a case of him winning both fights.I think Ali would have beaten Teo, considering that Igor did it twice, (and I also felt Page would have, especially if they had fought from late '77 on).joe kurtz wrote:Teo was very likely the all-time best amateur heavyweight/super heavyweight ever during his incredible Olympic run. But, AMATEUR is the operative word here.
While on paper it would appear that he would've made an easy & successful transition into the professional game, there are guarentees in boxing. It's like that cliche adage about contests that look like blow outs on paper in the NFL, but turn out to be big upsets come Sunday afternoon " That's why they play the games".
Being a big cuban with an impressive simon pure record & some KO wins over future world champs while they were amateurs doesn't mean one's destined for professional greatness. Or even modest championship success. One only has to look at the career of Jorge Luis Gonzales for proof of that.
Then, there was the top ranked US amateur heavyweight who gave Stevenson a couple of very tough fights in those wonderful old USA VS THE WORLD telecasts on ABC back in the day, by the name of Jimmy Clark. He was such a bright prospect that he was considered to be head & shoulders above both Greg Page & Tony Tubbs as far as his future was concerned. Infact, Howard Cosell made a special announcement on live prime time television about Clark signing with Angelo Dundee from the Ray Leonard locker room just before his title defense against Davey "Boy" Green.
Well, unfortunately, the blue chip amateur never got anywhere NEAR a world title like both Page & Tubbs did, much less becoming the "next great heavyweight". Sad fact is, other than one or two appearances in some undercard action during TOP RANK BOXING telecasts on ESPN, poor Clark never even made it back onto TV after that big announcement from the Sugar Ray locker room. That was his biggest moment as a pro.
Many world class amateurs DO make it as top professionals obviously, but just as many & more, do NOT. We'll never know which ol' Teo would've been.
But, in all of our pondering & all of our attempts at thorough assessments, we can't forget to include Stevenson's losses into the equation along with all of his brilliant KOs & his gold medals. The KO losses to that Russian fellow that wasn't allowed to represent the USSR in the Olympics for some reason & even those later on in his career to men like Paolo Vidoz.
Teo had a tremendous right hand, some terrific skills & he deserves many of the accolades that are given him all these years later, but he also had the sort of vulnerabilies that seasoned pros would've been more than happy & quite capable to take advantage of.
Stevenson could not beat Ali with a machete. If they fought ten times, Teofilo would lose eleven.
He was a great amateur but he was one dimensional -left jab and right hand- and was soundly beaten by Visotsky and went 1-1 with Duane Bobick. Strong but very limited and a great amateur because he reached a pro experience level that allowed him an edge in beating REAL amateurs.
Another example is Savon, an Olympian three times but he was stopped a dozen times in his career including once by a korean heavyweight named Lee Dal Han (or something like that.)
He was a great amateur but he was one dimensional -left jab and right hand- and was soundly beaten by Visotsky and went 1-1 with Duane Bobick. Strong but very limited and a great amateur because he reached a pro experience level that allowed him an edge in beating REAL amateurs.
Another example is Savon, an Olympian three times but he was stopped a dozen times in his career including once by a korean heavyweight named Lee Dal Han (or something like that.)