Oh yeah, that right, Mike's had such a peachy life hasn't he? Just because he has made loads of money doesn't make for a great life.Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Some interesting points about Tyson on here but to say he would never have been better if he was never discovered at all sounds pretty insane. Hes had a life that we meer mortals came only dream about. Despite declaring bankruptcy hes set for life and came make far more money than 99% of men with incredible ease despite been retired from the sport. Even in bankruptcy hes led the life of riley. I'm not saying his life has been perfect but thats largely due to a focus on short term thrills whether easy women, drugs, or spending money liek waterjamesmcdonnell wrote:My point was not that he would have been better of being guided by someone else, but rather he may have been better off not being discovered at all and never taking up boxing.DavidPayne wrote:Mmmm. Interesting theory James.
Personally, I would counter that Tyson would have been better served being 'clay' for Cus, than a free man under the guidance of those that followed Cus' death.
His professional decline is an obvious reflective of the damage Tyson freedom and lack of system and boundaries had on him. His mental and social stability were closely aligned to his success as a fighter.
When he was professionally reborn after jail in the mid-90's, he was successful but he wasn't the eager, balanced student of his youth and the success was superficial, everyone could see he was an eroded talent and a less content individual.
Holyfield, his professional, spiritual and social antithesis (though he would later be exposed as fraud in his private life) was a timely and ironic full stop on the charade. And so the spiral began again.
Tyson under Cus' guidance wouldn't bite an opponents ear off. Just an example of the effect he would have had. Would Tyson have been more productive and happy with the stricter regime? I think so.
That isn't to say Cus didn't have an agenda, but a content, stable Tyson suited all parties.
The decline of Tyson's career can also be charted in direct parallel for him falling out of love with the sport. When he returned from jail, he no longer had any love for the sport at all I don't think. It was just a job he did to make money to give him some sort of purpose.
Cus' influence was beneficial for a time, but it was inevitable that Tyson would rail against such a suffocating all encompassing system, just as his charge Patterson did beforehand. Cus' system of fighting and indeed of living, did not allow for any free expression, and once the money started rolling in and Tyson started to become a star, he began rebelling against Cus' ideals. It was a matter of time before the split happened, it's just that Cus died first.
Part of the reason Tyson was attracted to Don King, was that he found a role model in Don that he could understand, after being surrounded by fusty old white codgers, Don was something that Mike unfortunately aspired to, a kind of ghetto daddy figure.
Tyson's story is such an interesting one to get into, I find him such a fascinating figure, and the details surrounded his meteoric rise and fall are such rich material for speculation and investigation.
If you haven't read it yet David, then I really recommend you read 'Mike Tyson, money myth and betrayal.' by Moteif Illingworth. Not sure if it is in print currently, but see if you can get a copy. It goes into great detail on the relationship between Mike, Cus, Jim and Bill Cayton, there's some fascinating material in there. It ends with the rape trial and some of the details surrounding it.
Imagine his life if he didn't take up boxing, he'd be in and out of prison for all of his life. He wouldn't have had a father figure
I also think its unfair to Cus to call him 'selfish' for wanting a great HW champ. Maybe he had some selfish reasons but he also was a father figure to Mike that Mike never had growing up and gave the boy a trade and education and some sort of moral system
Mike's already had two stints in jail during his career, and looks set to have a third. So much for Cus D'amato's fantastic moral compass.
Cus pandered to Mike's every whim, allowing him to do pretty much as he pleased. Hence when Mike started fidddling with Teddy Atlas' 14 year old niece, and Cus ignored it, Teddy stormed down to the gym and stuck a gun to Mike's head and told him he'd blow his brains out if he did it again.
I think the Myth of the angelic Cus has been parroted for far too long now, the truth is a lot more unpalatable and a lot more complex.
