Are there any significant names Ali didn't fight?

[dagosd2000]

One thing I always admired about Ali is that he never ducked anyone. When he fought that big Japanese ultimate fighter in the 70's=that was taking a tremendous risk. Not much action,but Ali had everything to lose and could have looked humiliated if that guy could have locked up with him. He was trying to line up a fight with Stevenson,Foreman didn't want him right away after his loss,and Ali never wanted the public to think he didn't want to fight Holmes,so he went in there and didn't have a chance. He would have died that night if Dundee hadnn't stopped it. He kept fighting Frazier and Norton because he wanted to prove once and for all who was the best. (I think he fell short with Norton which I've posted),but you can't fault his courage.

[elmersalsa]

Jones deserved a return bout? Ali beat him convincingly in the eyes of anyone who knows how to score a fight. And then Jones lost to Chuvalo and Terrell, so Ali fought them. Jones didn't deserve shit.

I won't say that Young didn't deserve a rematch, but Ali should have retired by then.

If Ali should have lost points for holding, then so should fighters like Marciano, Duran, Hagler, Holyfield, Lewis, Dempsey, Greb, Hopkins, Castillo and all these other fighters who bend the rules as much or more than Ali ever did. When did Lewis ever lose points for holding, he held as much as Ali. Holyfield held twice as much against Tyson as Ali ever did in any individual fight, and that's considered to be one of the great performances in the history of the sport. No point deductions there.

Ali's career, again, being overanalyzed by those who hate him for reasons that have little to do with boxing.

Holyfield was not holding Tyson behind the head. He was hitting Tyson and holding him, which is not a bad tactic. But holding around the neck, IS ILEGAL, AND ALI DID IT PLENTY OF TIMES.

[I Feel Fine]

You're an ignorant person. Holyfield was holding Tyson throughout the whole fight, which is illegal the last time I checked. Lewis and several other fighters held behind the neck and were never penalized. But the slit throat Ali haters only want Ali to lose points, while defending fighters like Duran who could be absolutely filthy-forget dirty- in the ring.

[Marlin]

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

Charlie

[oliverfennell]

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

Charlie

In the mid-80s, Ali saw an ultrascan of the foetal Zelenoff hitting his mum's womb like Larry Holmes, and cancelled his comeback.

[Flump]

Ali fought everybody of note from the late 60s, through the 70s, and some who remained notable in the 80s. He fought his peers (Foreman, Frazier, Liston), titlists (Terrell, Ellis, Norton), the major contenders (Young, Cooper, Quarry, Shavers, Bugner, Williams), the old guard (Patterson, Moore) and the next generation (Holmes, Berbick, Spinks).

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

He refused to give Doug Jones and Jimmy Young return fights (after they beat him).

Jimmy Young should have beaten Ali, he was there for the taking but instead of taking the title away from the champion by being a bit more aggresive he tried to steal a decision, and then increased the chances of the judges siding with Ali by sticking his head out of the ropes every time things got a bit hot.

He certainly deserved a rematch after the Foreman result, but he effectively fought for the vacant WBC title against Norton anyway. If Young could have been 10% more aggressive he could have been the champion.

[Brute]

Ali was a great fighter and he probably fought them all. But he had more losses in his record than what his record really appears.

Out of his 5 losses (Frazier, Norton, Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick) we got to add that he REALLY LOST TO THESE FIGHTERS:

Jimmy Young
Ken Norton (twice after the first fight)
Earnie Shavers

Like it or not, he should have had 8 or 9 losses instead of 5 in his record. The fight with Doug Jones??? Well, I think Ali won that one no matter how granberry feels about that.

There is no way Ali lost to Young. Every time ali started hitting him, Young stuck his head out through the ropes like some pansy of a professional wrestler. Norton threw a lot of punches at Ali in their second and third fights, but most landed on Ali's guard or behind his head. Shavers? Give me a break! Ali outmoved and outpunched him.

As for Jones, he fought well in patches but was not consistent enough. Clowns have since written about Ali not giving Jones a title shot, but he got a shot at Terrell for the WBA title and Terrell beat him, and Ali slaughtered Terrell.

[Brute]

Probably the best fighter that didn't he fight was Eddie Machen.

Machen was past his best when Ali won hius title. he lost two fights in 1964 against fighters Ali had no trouble with.

[Brute]

Ali, or Clay at the time, supposedly schooled Johannson in sparring. Not necessarily surprising, but Clay had only been a pro for a year at that point, while Johannson had been champion and was about to again challenge for the title.

Maybe if Johannson had fought on longer and had stayed a contender they might have met in a pro fight.

According to Johansson's bio, Clay, who was 19 years old and had 4 pro fights behind him, made Johansson look silly in a sparring session before the last of Johansson's fights against Patterson in 1961. Ingo turned up at a gym for a spar and this kid he had never heard of was the only heavyweight available. To add insult to injury he kept telling Johansson that he (Ali) should have been fighting Patterson instead of Johansson. The Swede's handlers called the spar off after two rounds.

Johansson retired in 1963. I somehow doubt he wanted to fight the new champ the following year, with him 20 pounds heavier and a lot more experienced than when he towelled Ingo in the gym

[Marlin]

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

Charlie

In the mid-80s, Ali saw an ultrascan of the foetal Zelenoff hitting his mum's womb like Larry Holmes, and cancelled his comeback.

I was wondering if anyone here would take that way...

You could also take it to mean a different Charlie. I'll let you think about it...

[Collins2000]

Charlie

In the mid-80s, Ali saw an ultrascan of the foetal Zelenoff hitting his mum's womb like Larry Holmes, and cancelled his comeback.

I was wondering if anyone here would take that way...

You could also take it to mean a different Charlie. I'll let you think about it...

Charlie was very hard to beat. He usually fought on his own terms.

50,000 wasted US lives suggest Charlie wasn't to be taken lightly.

Anyway Ali always said he had no arguement with Charlie.

[Ambling Alp]

Probably the best fighter that didn't he fight was Eddie Machen.

Machen was past his best when Ali won hius title. he lost two fights in 1964 against fighters Ali had no trouble with.

I agree that Ali would have beaten him. I was just pointing out that he was the best fighter of his era that Ali didn't fight.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Last I checked, you can't be docked points for ducking your head between the ropes, any more than you can be for excessive holding, gripping behind the neck, laying against the ropes to no end or genuinely fighting in the final minute of every round, either.

Everyone has their tactics, it's just that some are above criticism. Ali deserved to lose that fight. Young beat him.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I suppose Norton lost to Ali in 76 too. The man was unbeatable.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I wouldn't be questioning the brilliance of others if I scored Ali-Norton II comfortably for Ali & gave Ali the third fight, which is just what I predicted. Amazing. No surprise then you felt Young couldn't beat Ali. He wasn't anywhere near as convincing as Norton, who plainly beat Ali in fight III on my card. For the record I scored them...

Ali-Norton I: Even
Ali-Norton II: Ali 6-5-1
Ali-Norton III: Norton 9-6

Incidentally, Ali after Norton III:

"Yeah, I lost."

[Goodnight, Irene]

But Ali was one of those people.

[elmersalsa]

You're an ignorant person. Holyfield was holding Tyson throughout the whole fight, which is illegal the last time I checked. Lewis and several other fighters held behind the neck and were never penalized. But the slit throat Ali haters only want Ali to lose points, while defending fighters like Duran who could be absolutely filthy-forget dirty- in the ring.

You probably never had a boxing match in your life...Very ignorant post of what I am reading. The Holyfield-Tyson fights were fights were both of them were holding, but not around the neck.

Duran was not a dirty figther...Tell me what fight you see Duran doing ILLEGAL TACTICS?

[elmersalsa]

I suppose Norton lost to Ali in 76 too. The man was unbeatable.

Norton won the first one. NortonLost the second soundly and the third was close but Ali nicked it. Tough style for Ali but he managed 2 out 3.

BULLSHIT...HE LOST 2 OUT OF 3 AT LEAST. Probably he lost the second fight, but I have not seen it yet.

[elmersalsa]

Ali, or Clay at the time, supposedly schooled Johannson in sparring. Not necessarily surprising, but Clay had only been a pro for a year at that point, while Johannson had been champion and was about to again challenge for the title.

Maybe if Johannson had fought on longer and had stayed a contender they might have met in a pro fight.

According to Johansson's bio, Clay, who was 19 years old and had 4 pro fights behind him, made Johansson look silly in a sparring session before the last of Johansson's fights against Patterson in 1961. Ingo turned up at a gym for a spar and this kid he had never heard of was the only heavyweight available. To add insult to injury he kept telling Johansson that he (Ali) should have been fighting Patterson instead of Johansson. The Swede's handlers called the spar off after two rounds.

Johansson retired in 1963. I somehow doubt he wanted to fight the new champ the following year, with him 20 pounds heavier and a lot more experienced than when he towelled Ingo in the gym

I saw the video of that sparring. Ali totally schooled Johansson

[Brute]

You're an ignorant person. Holyfield was holding Tyson throughout the whole fight, which is illegal the last time I checked. Lewis and several other fighters held behind the neck and were never penalized. But the slit throat Ali haters only want Ali to lose points, while defending fighters like Duran who could be absolutely filthy-forget dirty- in the ring.

You probably never had a boxing match in your life...Very ignorant post of what I am reading. The Holyfield-Tyson fights were fights were both of them were holding, but not around the neck.

Duran was not a dirty figther...Tell me what fight you see Duran doing ILLEGAL TACTICS?

He won the lightweight title by hitting Ken Buchanan in the balls.

[Goodnight, Irene]

No one should ever call Ali-Norton II a robbery. However, the losing fighter that night, whoever it was going to be, could always feel somewhat unlucky. It was close enough that on another night, with other judges, the result would be reversed.

50-50 decision I thought. The only clear result in any of the bouts was fight III, but even that has it's detractors, though Ali conceded defeat after the decision was announced. Like all good champion though, he stopped short of handing Norton the belts :)

[Brute]

Is there anyone of note who he didn't meet, for whatever reason?

Charlie

Ali would never have been sent to Vietnam. The only reason the government wanted him in the army was because there was unrest among black Americans because young black soldiers were being killed in disproportionate numbers and they wanted Ali in so they could say "See? Your hero accepted his call up, why won't you?" The deal was Ali would be a drill instructor and keep boxing. He would not be in it. It would have been easy for him to go into the Army, but his conscience would not let him be used to encourage young blacks to risk their lives to uphold the corrupt dictatorship that governed South Vietnam.

[I Feel Fine]

Johansson retired in 1963. I somehow doubt he wanted to fight the new champ the following year, with him 20 pounds heavier and a lot more experienced than when he towelled Ingo in the gym

It was just a hypothetical thought, "what if", maybe they would have fought, maybe not. Johannson would have obviously been beaten easily.

laying against the ropes to no end or genuinely fighting in the final minute of every round, either.

Then James Toney should have been disqualified in half his fights. Laying on the ropes, long stretches of inactivity in rounds. Who the hell ever gets penalized for laying on the ropes or not throwing punches? Am I the only one who has seen Tyson-Smith or Taylor-Joppy or Marquez-Gainer? Ali never had fights where he threw that few punches, other than the Holmes fight for obvious reasons. He never threw as few punches as Hopkins did against Taylor. And as for the laying on the ropes, Toney was on the ropes for half the Jirov and Rahman fights, for example... there's nothing illegal to my knowledge about laying on the ropes. Again, Ali's career being overanalyzed.

As to the idea that Duran never fouled... I don't even know how to respond to that kind of statement. Duran-Buchanan isn't even the worst example. Duran-Moore, anyone? Duran bent every rule, as Marciano and Trinidad and Hopkins and Castillo and Dempsey and Hagler and many other fighters did. Ali did not bend the rules as much as those fighters did, not by any means.

Basically, as I said earlier, Ali's career is overanalyzed, and anything that other fighters will get away with, Ali can't get away with, because of the ridiculous level of scrutiny. Boxing fans think that they're exposing Ali, when they're turning a blind eye to everything that other fighters have done and gotten away with. I don't think I'm exaggerating in saying that Ali wasn't even in the top 100 when talking about the dirtiest champions in boxing history. And Lewis did most of the same things Ali did, where is the outrage over that?

Tyson did not initiate the holding against Holyfield. That's blatant spin.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Then James Toney should have been disqualified in half his fights. Laying on the ropes, long stretches of inactivity in rounds. Who the hell ever gets penalized for laying on the ropes or not throwing punches? Am I the only one who has seen Tyson-Smith or Taylor-Joppy or Marquez-Gainer? Ali never had fights where he threw that few punches, other than the Holmes fight for obvious reasons. He never threw as few punches as Hopkins did against Taylor. And as for the laying on the ropes, Toney was on the ropes for half the Jirov and Rahman fights, for example... there's nothing illegal to my knowledge about laying on the ropes. Again, Ali's career being overanalyzed." - IFF

You missed the point I was making. What I was saying was, those were tactics of Ali's. No one ever used them as a reference point for taking a decision away from Ali when he deserved one.

The same priviledge was not extended to Young, who did no differently or worse by placing his head off to the side.

[I Feel Fine]

Well you mentioned excessive holding and gripping behind the neck, which are illegal, and I thought you were equating laying on the ropes with that. I have read people in the past try to say that Ali laying on the ropes should have been illegal, which is incorrect.

From what I remember the referee did warn Young for ducking his head under the ropes, so I assume it is illegal. Either way, I agree that Young should have won the fight.