1971 Joe Frazier -vs- 1980 Larry Holmes...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Smokin' Joe meets The Easton Assassin...

This I think would be a mightily entertaining affair, between two tremendous champions. Frazier the quintessential swarmer, Holmes the slick mover.

Holmes had problems on the inside. He never really developed an inside game, & when Tim Witherspoon & Mike Weaver pressed him in this regard, he never entertained the idea of a return bout with either (Though at the end of the day, he did get the job done). Kenny Norton had the wrong thing done by him when Holmes decided he'd rather walk through hell than face the prospect of another fifteen rounds with what was by that time an old Norton too (Holmes won on my card but not everyone saw it that way).

Frazier, for his part, encountered difficulties dealing with Muhammad Ali's jab, & would be up against an even better example of that punch against Holmes, who was simply superb in taming opponents on the backslide. Holmes was crafty & displayed considerable recuperative abilities at times, most notably against Earnie Shavers. On the other hand, he was almost inexplicably embarressed against Renaldo Snipes, though the same could be said of Frazier against the light-hitting Joe Bugner.

This would be a question of how well Frazier can slip & slide under Holmes' jab. If he does this well, I think he's going to wear down a tough but outgunned Holmes via late stoppage.

If he doesn't, he'll be chasing his man --- & a considerable points deficit --- which he never quite catches, & Holmes win the decision.

My verdict? Styles make fights & when two evenly-matched & wonderfully gifted Heavyweights meet that can be the difference.

Frazier TKO13.

[Tantum]

Larry by TKO

[Goodnight, Irene]

Huh. It didn't (& doesn't) occur to me that Holmes had it in him to stop Frazier.

Care to elaborate?

[Tantum]

Let's see, Ali, the lightest hitting undisputed world heavyweight champion since Ezzard Charles stopped Frazier by TKO...

Yet Holmes doesn't have it in him?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali couldn't even beat, much less stop, the Frazier I mentioned in the topic heading.

The best Joe Frazier against the best Larry Holmes, not an old Frazier against a prime Holmes.

[Tantum]

Ali wasn't exactly in his prime when they fought the third time, either.

Regardless of that point, which was not point...

It's not like Holmes did not have the power to stop him.

Holmes had everything it would take to stop Frazier.

And I happen to think he would.

[Robinson]

I do think Holmes has it in him to win an exciting
decision though. I think Holmes, jab, right and uppercut
as well as his movement and ability to clinch when needed
is enough to frustrate and wear down Frazier.

Fraziers activity, tenacity and left hook to body and jaw are
a big danger and he does have ALOT of moments, even
rocking Holmes. But Larry rallies and wins a good
decision over Smokin Joe.

Frazier is very suscibtle to that jab, and Holmes has a
hard jab, Ali flicked it at Frazier, Holmes would shoot it
at him.

But who would not want to see this fight !!! ?

Kym

[I Feel Fine]

Holmes did not hit harder than Ali. Holmes' had a better right hand, Ali had a better left hook.

I would favor Frazier to beat Holmes four times out of seven.

However, if he's coming off a three year layoff, Holmes loses every time

[dr_devious]

Close decision which could go either way, I'd pick Holmes probably

[Goodnight, Irene]

I guess you have to ask yourself - Is Holmes superior or inferior to the version of Ali that Frazier defeated relatively narrowly on points?

If the answer is Holmes is better you're probably going to say he'll win, because Frazier didn't beat Ali by much (8-7, 143-141 on my card) but if your answer's no you'll come up with Frazier.

Either way, I say it's a tough call but as I stated I lean toward Frazier.

[KO Artist]

Holmes by decision in what may have been the greatest HW fight of all time.

[KO Artist]

Holmes did not hit harder than Ali. Holmes' had a better right hand, Ali had a better left hook.

I would favor Frazier to beat Holmes four times out of seven.

However, if he's coming off a three year layoff, Holmes loses every time

Holmes had a better jab, Ali had better feet.

I think the Holmes of 70/80 was better than the Aali of 71, but not miles better.

[The Great John L]

Holmes struggled with the aggressive moderately active Weaver, so I think Frazier would have been a terror for him. Bad style matchup for Holmes. Frazier by late TKO or wide UD.

[dempseyfire]

Holmes did not hit harder than Ali. Holmes' had a better right hand, Ali had a better left hook.

I would favor Frazier to beat Holmes four times out of seven.

However, if he's coming off a three year layoff, Holmes loses every time

I have to agree. Neither had one-punch KO power but Ali was a bigger puncher than Holmes. Holmes was a SHARP puncher but he couldn't stop a guy clean if his life depended on it. Practically all his KO wins were vs guys he was just outclassing and they were stopped on their feet (Weaver, LeDoux, Snipes, Smith, Shavers etc.)

Ali at his best was able to put guys out (Folley, Bonavena, Foreman, Williams, London etc.)

As for the fight, best for best I favor Frazier by decision.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

I'd have to pick Frazier. His relentless attack would be too much for Holmes I think. I believe Ali had just as good a jab if not better than Holmes and he couldn't even keep Frazier at bay. Holmes was hittable too, Cooney hit him with surprising ease at times. Frazier by TKO in the later rounds.

[Jaywheel]

Frazier by decision, dropping Holmes twice in a 15 rd affair.

[Ezzard]

Go with Irene's pick.

Of the great boxers, Ali, Holmes, Tunney, Walcott, Charles, Johnson... I think Frazier beats them all... Johnson may have been his trickiest opponent head-to-head...

[Syntax Error]

Classic matchup; the matador versus the bull.

This is a tough fight for both men.

For once, this a fight that Larry Holmes would not be able to control with his piston like jab as Frazier's bob & weave would negate that.

Larry would have to rely on his Right hand more & he'd definitely need those superhuman recuperative powers he had, because Frazier's Left hook would be trained on him all throughout the fight.

I'd pick Frazier to win a close 15 rounder, with Joe flooring Larry mid rounds, but Larry rallying back to close up the scoring overall.

[Syntax Error]

I'd have to pick Frazier. His relentless attack would be too much for Holmes I think. I believe Ali had just as good a jab if not better than Holmes and he couldn't even Frazier at bay. Holmes was hittable too, Cooney hit him with surprising ease at times. Frazier by TKO in the later rounds.

The only jab I think would have deterred Frazier is Liston's ramrod jab.

Piston like jabs, whilst effective, do not have the force to deter a rampager like Frazier.

It would need a piledriver type like Liston's or maybe even Joe Louis.

[elmersalsa]

It is a tough call for me....Both were great fighters. Lots of heart between the two. But I got to pick that fighting machine of March 8, 1971 at the Madison Square Garden in New York City named Joe Frazier. In that night, I don's see too many heavyweights beating him. He was phenomenal that night with the great Muhammad Ali.

Frazier gave Ali some shots that another heavyweight would have never get up. I give Ali some props in this fight. He had one of the greatest chins I have ever seen in a boxer. The great Larry Holmes would have give any heavyweight hell, but, the Frazier of 1971, and how he fought was not going to be denied. He was superb.

Frazier by late TKO. Holmes would not stand the pressure. Too much for any boxer.

[jezzamundo]

Although I rate Holmes higher on my all-time list, prime-for-prime, I think this is a very close fight. I'll take Frazier by a similar margin to which he won Fight of the Century, with Holmes winning the rematch by another close decision.

[yancey]

Smokin' Joe meets The Easton Assassin...

This I think would be a mightily entertaining affair, between two tremendous champions. Frazier the quintessential swarmer, Holmes the slick mover.

Holmes had problems on the inside. He never really developed an inside game, & when Tim Witherspoon & Mike Weaver pressed him in this regard, he never entertained the idea of a return bout with either (Though at the end of the day, he did get the job done). Kenny Norton had the wrong thing done by him when Holmes decided he'd rather walk through hell than face the prospect of another fifteen rounds with what was by that time an old Norton too (Holmes won on my card but not everyone saw it that way).

Frazier, for his part, encountered difficulties dealing with Muhammad Ali's jab, & would be up against an even better example of that punch against Holmes, who was simply superb in taming opponents on the backslide. Holmes was crafty & displayed considerable recuperative abilities at times, most notably against Earnie Shavers. On the other hand, he was almost inexplicably embarressed against Renaldo Snipes, though the same could be said of Frazier against the light-hitting Joe Bugner.

This would be a question of how well Frazier can slip & slide under Holmes' jab. If he does this well, I think he's going to wear down a tough but outgunned Holmes via late stoppage.

If he doesn't, he'll be chasing his man --- & a considerable points deficit --- which he never quite catches, & Holmes win the decision.

My verdict? Styles make fights & when two evenly-matched & wonderfully gifted Heavyweights meet that can be the difference.

Frazier TKO13.

Agree that the buzz saw, prime Frazier would most likely eventually get to Larry and win on late stoppage. It would be a great, great fight.

btw, not quibbling and not important to the thread, but I've long thought Frazier's short peak was more around '68 through early 1970. I always thought he showed quicker, tighter bobbing-weaving movement before the FOTC ever came about.

[kwillymac]

I pick Larry Holmes. He has such a reach advantage over just about everyone. One of the Great jabs. Great chin would always get up. I think he out points or TKO's Frazier in the late rounds.

[McCannW14]

I do think Holmes has it in him to win an exciting
decision though. I think Holmes, jab, right and uppercut
as well as his movement and ability to clinch when needed
is enough to frustrate and wear down Frazier.

Fraziers activity, tenacity and left hook to body and jaw are
a big danger and he does have ALOT of moments, even
rocking Holmes. But Larry rallies and wins a good
decision over Smokin Joe.

Frazier is very suscibtle to that jab, and Holmes has a
hard jab, Ali flicked it at Frazier, Holmes would shoot it
at him.

But who would not want to see this fight !!! ?

Kym

I agree with everything you say.

Holmes by 15 round decision in entertaining fight.

[theone]

I think Joe brings it to Holmes like no one could in his prime. I don't think Holmes hits hard enough to keep Frazier from mauling him, nor does he have the chin to take eat as many left hooks as Ali did. Frazier by late tko or hard fought decision.