BBN Exclusive - Elcock

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Oct 2007, 15:57

Elcock was also In the Rings top 10 but I have since noticed they replaced him with Randy Griffin for a draw with Sturm.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 23 Oct 2007, 08:20

World title boxing being what it is these days, this isn't that bad a match.

I don't give Elcock a chance either, but I certainly think he's a more valid IBF title challenger than say, Howard Clarke, and I do give Wayne a better shout against Abraham than Howard had against Vargas.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 23 Oct 2007, 08:47

THEBUTCH wrote:World title boxing being what it is these days, this isn't that bad a match.

I don't give Elcock a chance either, but I certainly think he's a more valid IBF title challenger than say, Howard Clarke, and I do give Wayne a better shout against Abraham than Howard had against Vargas.

Yeah, but two rights don't make a wrong. Obviously we all know what boxing is like, but I still can't help getting pissed off with these fights that are a complete waste of time.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 23 Oct 2007, 08:55

Was Danny Williams a joke defence for Vitaly?

Similar credibility.

He's the British Middleweight champion. Doesn't that hold some sway?

It should. Granted Abraham has operated at a level significantly higher and being British champion isn't a rubber stamp of world class quality.

But he's the British champion. Good luck to the lad.

Abraham's good but he's not a monster is he? Not of the coverage I've seen.

Smigga · Post by **Smigga** » 23 Oct 2007, 10:13

DavidPayne wrote:Was Danny Williams a joke defence for Vitaly?

Similar credibility.

He's the British Middleweight champion. Doesn't that hold some sway?

It should. Granted Abraham has operated at a level significantly higher and being British champion isn't a rubber stamp of world class quality.

But he's the British champion. Good luck to the lad.

Abraham's good but he's not a monster is he? Not of the coverage I've seen.

Great post

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Oct 2007, 10:34

I think we all have a classic persecution fantasy - see Hitchcock, Kafka or some Pinter - and that going abroad often allows ppl to live that fantasy.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Oct 2007, 10:36

Max Molyneux wrote:Elcock was also In the Rings top 10 but I have since noticed they replaced him with Randy Griffin for a draw with Sturm.

I suppose top 10 spaces needed filling with Taylor & Miranda no longer able to make 160

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 23 Oct 2007, 12:54

Smigga wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:Was Danny Williams a joke defence for Vitaly?

Similar credibility.

He's the British Middleweight champion. Doesn't that hold some sway?

It should. Granted Abraham has operated at a level significantly higher and being British champion isn't a rubber stamp of world class quality.

But he's the British champion. Good luck to the lad.

Abraham's good but he's not a monster is he? Not of the coverage I've seen.
Great post

No it wasn't. And yes, Danny Williams was a joke defense for Vitali which was stated by most at the time. This is typical bias that so many Brit posters like to accuse American posters of. Elcock is gonna get smashed, he's not even good enough to become European champion let alone the ibf title holder. He hasn't done anything to even remotely deserve this chance even if the middleweight division is quite weak.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 23 Oct 2007, 13:17

ArtOfWar wrote: No it wasn't. And yes, Danny Williams was a joke defense for Vitali which was stated by most at the time. This is typical bias that so many Brit posters like to accuse American posters of. Elcock is gonna get smashed, he's not even good enough to become European champion let alone the ibf title holder. He hasn't done anything to even remotely deserve this chance even if the middleweight division is quite weak.

Aren't you just a little bundle of joy??..

Promoters/fighters have taken 'the path of least resistance' in voluntary defences on and off since the inception of pro boxing - I thought that you would be used to it by now?

Lets get over the fact that pro boxing is not a sport with the truest Olympian ideals at its core (its a business as well as a sport) and can we not a least be happy for a hard working pro like Elcock to get a dream fight right out of the blue?!

I dont agree that he will just get 'smashed' - the Brummie can both box and punch when he sets himself; aligned to that he has exceptional levels of fitness. He might not win but I guarantee he will aquit himself well and do bith his City and status as British champion proud

There is little (if anything) in his career thus far to suggets he will upset Abrahams but I for one will be rooting for him all the way.

Gew on Mad Dog - bring the title home! Who knows,Wayne could be parading the world middleweight title at St Andrews before the end of the year? (it would make a very pleasant change to see a title coming to the Blues!

)

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 23 Oct 2007, 14:19

ArtOfWar wrote: No it wasn't. And yes, Danny Williams was a joke defense for Vitali which was stated by most at the time. This is typical bias that so many Brit posters like to accuse American posters of. Elcock is gonna get smashed, he's not even good enough to become European champion let alone the ibf title holder. He hasn't done anything to even remotely deserve this chance even if the middleweight division is quite weak.

TerribleTerry wrote:Aren't you just a little bundle of joy??..

Ahhh, thanks.

TerribleTerry wrote:Promoters/fighters have taken 'the path of least resistance' in voluntary defences on and off since the inception of pro boxing - I thought that you would be used to it by now?

Lets get over the fact that pro boxing is not a sport with the truest Olympian ideals at its core (its a business as well as a sport) and can we not a least be happy for a hard working pro like Elcock to get a dream fight right out of the blue?!

I dont agree that he will just get 'smashed' - the Brummie can both box and punch when he sets himself; aligned to that he has exceptional levels of fitness. He might not win but I guarantee he will aquit himself well and do bith his City and status as British champion proud

There is little (if anything) in his career thus far to suggets he will upset Abrahams but I for one will be rooting for him all the way.

Gew on Mad Dog - bring the title home! Who knows,Wayne could be parading the world middleweight title at St Andrews before the end of the year? (it would make a very pleasant change to see a title coming to the Blues! )

The fact that you are a Brummie wouldn't have anything to do with your stance would it? 8)

Elcock is not and never will be world class. It's a shitty matchup for any neutral boxing fan or any boxing fan that likes to watch competitive boxing. Elcock can't punch and his overall skill set is pretty basic. He's going to get taken apart unless he's goes in there with the intention to just survive.

If Elcock wasn't British Abraham would be getting ripped for taking this fight, that is a fact.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 23 Oct 2007, 14:33

Elcock is coming off a career best win against a fringe world contender, which also bagged him his national title.

That, in my eyes and those of the world governing body, makes him just about eligible for a voluntary defence - you need to unwind ArtofWar.

This is a BRITISH boxing forum, forgive me for being excited for and supportive of a BRITISH champ fighting for genuine world honours.

If you want guaranteed competitve contests I could point you in the direction of any number of off TV small hall boxing shows, but I have a hunch they wouldnt interest you.

Give up on the overly negative tone of your posts and look forward to seeing a Brit fight for a major boxing title. 8)

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 23 Oct 2007, 15:17

TerribleTerry wrote:Elcock is coming off a career best win against a fringe world contender, which also bagged him his national title.

That, in my eyes and those of the world governing body, makes him just about eligible for a voluntary defence - you need to unwind ArtofWar.

This is a BRITISH boxing forum, forgive me for being excited for and supportive of a BRITISH champ fighting for genuine world honours.

If you want guaranteed competitve contests I could point you in the direction of any number of off TV small hall boxing shows, but I have a hunch they wouldnt interest you.

Give up on the overly negative tone of your posts and look forward to seeing a Brit fight for a major boxing title. 8)

A career best win against a guy who USED TO BE a fringe world contender, but is now losing more than he is winning. Sorry, but I don't support fights/fighters based on nationality. Obviously it's good to see a Brit in a good match at world level, but the best fighting the best is what is most important to me (on all levels). This is a case of British level fighter being put in with a guy who has to much for him in every department. It won't be competitive, it's just a meaningless fight. I can't be positive or get excited about a fight like this.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 23 Oct 2007, 15:42

Fair enough ArtofWar, the fight isnt for you - just skip it and settle in for Hatton v PBF. No skin off your nose is it?

Many would have viewed both Lloyd Honeygan v Don Curry and Dave Green v Ray Leonard as miss matches: one was, one wasn't. I am hoping that Elcock's shot falls into the the later category.

I for one will enjoy this match for what it is - a once in a lifetime opprtunity for a good lad and a good fighter (no matter what you say about his skills/weight of dig).

Gew on Brummie - bring the title home!

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 24 Oct 2007, 04:11

I haven't checked but who had Edison Miranda beaten before Howard Eastman, you know the next killer middleweight superstar, who was then promptly put in with Abraham?

Art - I see you point, take away national pride and Elcock isn't a top 5 middleweight and therefore, in a utopian world that will never exist - wouldn't be getting the shot. But there are 4 Middleweight belts and voluntarys are par for the course.

Elcock is a good, brave, fit lad who just beat a former title challenger and European champion. Jaded he may have been. But its a credible victory.

For once I'll put aside a quest for the perfect world in favour of recognising the British championship means something beyond this island.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 24 Oct 2007, 07:19

Good luck to Elcock, he's going to need it here. He has little or no chance!

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 24 Oct 2007, 07:25

TerribleTerry wrote:Give up on the overly negative tone of your posts and look forward to seeing a Brit fight for a major boxing title. 8)

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 25 Oct 2007, 08:56

Shudder!!!

Please don't compare Elcock's challenge to Lloyd Honeyghan's against Curry.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 25 Oct 2007, 09:45

THEBUTCH wrote:Shudder!!!

Please don't compare Elcock's challenge to Lloyd Honeyghan's against Curry.

The extent of my comparison was of an unfavoured Brit challenging a foreigner abroad against seemingly insurmountable odds.

I know Abrahams is no Curry and Elcock is no Ragga muffin Man but the comparison stands on the basis that I made it

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 25 Oct 2007, 09:51

I wish Elcock well in this fight but can't see him going past 7/8 rounds.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 25 Oct 2007, 10:23

I know we're easily misled here in the UK, you know - James Hare is a world-class Welterweight. No he isn't. Cosme Rivera beat him up and he wasn't either.

I'm not denigrating James Hare here, because he's a smashing fella and he was a terrific fighter. I just use him as an example of the guff we sometimes buy.

I know sometimes we misunderstand just how big the gulf is from stand out British class, Johannson, Hunter, Danny Williams, Eastman etc to true, true world class but I'm not sure Abraham is the all conquering killer everyone is painting him as. He aint likely to take Elcock's head off is he? He's not likely to be unhittable is he? Elcock will be in the fight. Sure he may well lose, odds on he will, but lets keep a balance. As much as the IBF may be over-stating Elcocks standing by accepting him, we're AS guilty of portraying Abraham as a all time great.

Elcock is a proficient fella, has some tools and will be fit, confident with nothing to lose.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 25 Oct 2007, 10:32

Thanks for clearing that up, Terrible Terry

. I can sleep easy now :)

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 25 Oct 2007, 11:31

any idea where in Switzerland this fight is going to be held?

Podmore_Birmingham · Post by **Podmore_Birmingham** » 25 Oct 2007, 11:32

Old bones Ian wrote:any idea where in Switzerland this fight is going to be held?

Basel.

Tom Podmore.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 25 Oct 2007, 11:48

Podmore_Birmingham wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:any idea where in Switzerland this fight is going to be held?
Basel.

What THYME is it on? Sorry couldn't resist

J · Post by J » 25 Oct 2007, 11:50

Chambers2 wrote:
Podmore_Birmingham wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:any idea where in Switzerland this fight is going to be held?
Basel.
What THYME is it on? Sorry couldn't resist

please dont PEPPER us with Spice jokes just to CURRY favour, anyone can see that CUMIN.