NAZ - Hall of Fame?

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:41

Excuse my ignorance as I was out of the loop a week or so ago, but has this been discussed?

Do you guys think he deserves a place?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:48

I think who he beat merits it but because he retired young and never realy came back after his loss I doubt the americans will see it that way.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:49

I think he merits getting in on boxing achievment. Is that all they / we care about for induction?

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:58

He deserves it more than McGuigan ever did....

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 23 Oct 2007, 12:02

This mite be a contravercial point but does anyone think the 9-11 (yes I know its not a propper date written that way round) factor may affect his chances of being given that place at the IBHOF as he was so open and loud about his religion

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 23 Oct 2007, 12:18

Lets see.....Beat all the featherweight champions unifying a division....fought 10 world champions beating 9 and losing to 1...only lost to an ATG in Barrera...beat a man who beat a man who beat Barrera.... dominated the featherweights from 1995-2001 and was the draw ina Super Fight. I say yes

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Oct 2007, 12:35

josh fg wrote:This mite be a contravercial point but does anyone think the 9-11 (yes I know its not a propper date written that way round) factor may affect his chances of being given that place at the IBHOF as he was so open and loud about his religion

The yanks rate Naz pretty highly, he will almost certainly get in, they have to elect a certain number of people each year now, so he is bound to make the cut.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 13:03

Captain Hook wrote:He deserves it more than McGuigan ever did....

I not sure if he is more deserving. McGuigan beat better fighters. Naz a little bit dissapointing in the end. His first test against an elite fighter, not completeley past his prime, he failed. Though there is no disgrace in losing to an ATG like Barrera (whom many so called experts consideed was past it) who was just a better all round fighter than Naz.

Naz was fast and a massive puncher, but if he regulalry mixed in the level of MAB, Morales and Pacman, he would have been found out.

great puncher? Yes . Great fighter? I dont think so.

I dont think McGuigan was a great fighter either, but he was certainly on the same level as Naz.

I dont think the HOF is about great fighters, more about fighters who made a lasting impression. Barry and Naz did that. So they should be in. IMO

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 13:15

Ant Evans wrote:He's got my vote (and, yes, I do get to vote on IBHOF)

He beat champions of WBO, IBF, WBU, WBA, and WBC, won EBU title in 12th fight (eat your heart out Amir!), dominated a division for 6 years which is longer than Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Roy Jones Junior and pretty much everyone else you can think of did.

And, quite honestly, if that Irish bloke with the silly words from that gay cooking programme gets in - we all deserve consideration!!!!!

Naz did not dominate the division for 6 years. In fact I'm not sure he ever dominated it.

Surely, your comments about McGuigan are tongue in cheek?

gb · Post by gb » 23 Oct 2007, 13:50

KO Artist wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:He deserves it more than McGuigan ever did....
I not sure if he is more deserving. McGuigan beat better fighters. Naz a little bit dissapointing in the end. His first test against an elite fighter, not completeley past his prime, he failed. Though there is no disgrace in losing to an ATG like Barrera (whom many so called experts consideed was past it) who was just a better all round fighter than Naz.

Naz was fast and a massive puncher, but if he regulalry mixed in the level of MAB, Morales and Pacman, he would have been found out.

great puncher? Yes . Great fighter? I dont think so.

I dont think McGuigan was a great fighter either, but he was certainly on the same level as Naz.

I dont think the HOF is about great fighters, more about fighters who made a lasting impression. Barry and Naz did that. So they should be in. IMO

Other than Pedrosa, who did McGuigan really beat? Naz would have slaughtered him!

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 23 Oct 2007, 14:06

McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.

gb · Post by gb » 23 Oct 2007, 14:06

Naz beat a lot of very good fighters who were slightly past their best, but if you look closely at the record of any "great" fighter you can say the same - it's very rare that two great fighters meet when they are both right at the top of their respective careers.
He was losing motivation before the Barrera fight (Ingle complained plenty of times that he wasn't training properly) and still ran him pretty close.
He's one of very few fighters to get out as soon as his heart wasn't in it any more. He had plenty of cash, so why bother going through the motions just to end up getting the shit beaten out of him. Also, the way that he fought meant that he was never ging to have a really long career.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:09

For me Naz has to be included - Can anyone post a list of British Hall of Famers, thanks Waylon

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:16

nickd wrote:McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.

What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:23

KO Artist wrote:
nickd wrote:McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.
What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

I'm not just pointing out the titles, but Hamed had a very long reign and beat a lot of decent fighters and as good as cleared out his division at one time.

McGuigan beat Pedroza then had 2 reasonable defences.

Hamed had the better world championship career of the two it's clear as day.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:24

KO Artist wrote:Naz did not dominate the division for 6 years. In fact I'm not sure he ever dominated it.

Surely, your comments about McGuigan are tongue in cheek?

yeah he never truly dominated did he.

he was the regarded no1.

but he missed out on some good titlists like espinoza, norwood and gainer.

plus good super bantams moving up like mckinney and jones.

Timmbo · Post by **Timmbo** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:25

McGuigan lost it to Stevie Cruz...... who's he?
Hamid lost to Barrera....who's he?

(j/k)

Hamid should get in HOF imho.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:27

Timmbo wrote:McGuigan lost it to Stevie Cruz...... who's he?
Hamid lost to Barrera....who's he? (j/k)

Hamid should get in HOF imho.

spot on. McGuigan is the lowest common denominator for the HoF.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:31

oh yeah and that other super bantam moving up erik morales. :)

i know bazza shouldn't really be in.

but anyone that saw him fight knows he could have stood with a prime naseem hamed.

with his style and workrate and sheer fighting heart.

fornicate me if paul ingle could trouble a slightly past it naz then imagine what bazza would have done.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:36

hitman_hatton1 wrote:oh yeah and that other super bantam moving up erik morales. :)

i know bazza shouldn't really be in.

but anyone that saw him fight knows he could have stood with a prime naseem hamed.

with his style and workrate and sheer fighting heart.

eff me if paul ingle could trouble a slightly past it naz then imagine what bazza would have done.

exactly... If Barry is the least deserving member, it establishes the bottom line....

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:38

KO Artist wrote:
nickd wrote:McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.

What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

To answer gb, mcguigan beat Valerio Nati, Jose Caba, Paul DeVaorce, Philippe Orozco, Juan La Porte (whom I feel would have been all wrong fo Hamed), Eusebio Pedroza, Bernard Taylor, and Danilo Cabrera, among others.

Some of these fighters were elite, some world class, others top 10 contenders. Some of them had been very competetive with better, bigger and stronger fighters than Hamed.

I beleive that these guys more or less equal to Hameds resume.

If you havent heard of many of them, I wont hold you age against you

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:47

KO Artist wrote:
KO Artist wrote:
nickd wrote:McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.
What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

To answer gb, mcguigan beat Valerio Nati, Jose Caba, Paul DeVaorce, Philippe Orozco, Juan La Porte (whom I feel would have been all wrong fo Hamed), Eusebio Pedroza, Bernard Taylor, and Danilo Cabrera, among others.

Some of these fighters were elite, some world class, others top 10 contenders. Some of them had been very competetive with better, bigger and stronger fighters than Hamed.

I beleive that these guys more or less equal to Hameds resume.

If you havent heard of many of them, I wont hold you age against you

I've heard of them thanks how old do you think I am?

As for who Hamed beat to get the titles, granted the guys may have been a little over the hill it can be argued but equally Pedroza was hardly at his peak when McGuigan dethroned him was he?

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:55

MIKEE wrote:
hitman_hatton1 wrote:oh yeah and that other super bantam moving up erik morales. :)

i know bazza shouldn't really be in.

but anyone that saw him fight knows he could have stood with a prime naseem hamed.

with his style and workrate and sheer fighting heart.

eff me if paul ingle could trouble a slightly past it naz then imagine what bazza would have done.
exactly... If Barry is the least deserving member, it establishes the bottom line....

OK fair enough, we will agree to disagree.

All I am saying is that Naz tends to get a wee bit overrated bacuse of all the razamatazz.

I think he and McGuigan are roughly equally deserving of a place. They were good for the game, and were exciting.

But I think Barry would have given Naz a very tough night. Barry had a great chin. I actually think that Juan LaPorte would have beaten Naz.

As for you age I think you are about 29 to 31?

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:57

KO Artist wrote:
KO Artist wrote:
nickd wrote:McGuigan won the title and defended it twice. How that's achieving more than Hamed who won WBO, IBF and WBC titles is beyond me. Not even close.
What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

To answer gb, mcguigan beat Valerio Nati, Jose Caba, Paul DeVaorce, Philippe Orozco, Juan La Porte (whom I feel would have been all wrong fo Hamed), Eusebio Pedroza, Bernard Taylor, and Danilo Cabrera, among others.

Some of these fighters were elite, some world class, others top 10 contenders. Some of them had been very competetive with better, bigger and stronger fighters than Hamed.

I beleive that these guys more or less equal to Hameds resume.

If you havent heard of many of them, I wont hold you age against you

certainly pedroza, taylor and la porte were as good if not better than anyone hamed beat.

the manner he beat em were impressive to.

remember how he stormed thru taylor in those last couple of rds.

no wonder taylor quit.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 23 Oct 2007, 17:18

nickd wrote:
KO Artist wrote:
KO Artist wrote: What has the name of the title got to do with anything. Surely you dont value any of these tin pot trinkets do you? They are valueless

Who did Hamed beat in the fights that he won those versions and hat stage of their career were they at?

To answer gb, mcguigan beat Valerio Nati, Jose Caba, Paul DeVaorce, Philippe Orozco, Juan La Porte (whom I feel would have been all wrong fo Hamed), Eusebio Pedroza, Bernard Taylor, and Danilo Cabrera, among others.

Some of these fighters were elite, some world class, others top 10 contenders. Some of them had been very competetive with better, bigger and stronger fighters than Hamed.

I beleive that these guys more or less equal to Hameds resume.

If you havent heard of many of them, I wont hold you age against you

I've heard of them thanks how old do you think I am?

As for who Hamed beat to get the titles, granted the guys may have been a little over the hill it can be argued but equally Pedroza was hardly at his peak when McGuigan dethroned him was he?

Three fights after mcguigan, La Porte gives JC Chavez a very tough fight over 12 rounds, then YEARS later loses a close decision to Azumah Nelson.

Then at 33 La Porte takes Kostya Tszyu the distance at 140.

La Porte was a major handful. A KO (proper) over Rocky Lockridge in 2, 3 years befor he fought McGuigan.

LaPorte could well have beaten anyone Hamed beat and quite possibly Hamed himself.

In fact I would go as far to say that the LaPorte that lost to McGuigan would have beaten anyone that Hamed beat. He would have even given Barrera a rough ride.

As for Taylor, he went onto stop Calvin Grove some time after losing to McGuigan.

McGuigan is in Hamed league, no question.