What fighter has the greatest achievement?

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 24 Oct 2007, 07:28

Ambling Alp wrote:I think his real name is Wilfred. He was called both Wilfred and Wilfredo.

yeh he used the name wilfedo until he was over 18 and then i dnt know what happened but he came clean and started fighting under his birth name wilfred

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 24 Oct 2007, 09:34

Decagon wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:Robinson didn't just fight La Motta 5 times
Yeah. He fought LaMotta six times.

I was saying that Robinson fought LaMotta 5 times when Robinson wasn't a middleweight himself yet. He of course beat him once as a middleweight as well.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 24 Oct 2007, 17:28

Ambling Alp wrote:Well, elmer maybe there is hope for you yet. Yes, that was a great achievement for Benitez.

Your tirades against Robinson are ridiculaus. Yes, he had a couple of draws and one loss in 131 fights. He also had 3 winning streaks of over 30 wins. 40 wins, 36 wins, 38 wins. Even Armstrong only one win streak over 30.
Pep,Wilde and Chavez had great records and were great fighters. However, Chavez didn't fight the competition that Robinson did, and Pep and Wilde's competiton during their "streaks" weren't even remotely close.

Robinson had one loss in 131 fights to a great fighter that outweighed by 16 pounds. Not only that, he actually beat that fighter 4 times though greatly outweighed. Not to mention stoping him again when he was a middleweight.

Robinson didn't just fight La Motta 5 times (and beat him 4 times) when Robinson wasn't a middleweight. He also beat Hall of Famers Gavilan, Angott, Olson, and Zivic. Not to mention good fighters like Bell, Doyle,Belloise,Villemain,Servo, and Delanoit etc.

I love how in your view Gavilan beat Robinson. You never saw them fight

That is a great achievement...NO question about that...By no means Robinson first 132 fights were overrated. All I am saying that Wilde, Pep and Chavez did almost the same or were not different. Chavez beat a lot of good and quality opponents in his streak. So did Pep. Wilde??? Well, he was a flyweight in a division that does not have enough recognition, but still what he did is comparable to Robinson's.

I go with Armstrong at #1 because of what he did in a short period of time, was a career to many fighters. He averaged 13 fights a year. He won 46 fights in a row. Robinson in his 25 years as a pro fought 200 bouts. Armstrong had 182 in only 14 years as a pro. If Armstrong had 25 years as a pro, he would have had over 300 fights.

But how about this Alp: Did Robinson defended the crown 19 times?
Did Robinson has defended the crown 11 times in a year?
Did Robison ever has defended the crown 3 times in a month?
Did Robinson ever won 27 fights in a row in one year?
Did Robinson ever won 27 fights in a row by KO?

Armstrong did all this? wow...what a fighter...To me, he is the greatest!!! Hail to the new King: Henry Armstrong!!!:TU:

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 25 Oct 2007, 14:17

Did Armstrong ever win 43 fights in a row in 2 years all by KO?

Did Armstrong ever knock out 6 guys in one night??

ALL HAIL THE NEW KING, LAMAR CLARK!!

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 25 Oct 2007, 16:47

elmersalsa wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:Well, elmer maybe there is hope for you yet. Yes, that was a great achievement for Benitez.

Your tirades against Robinson are ridiculaus. Yes, he had a couple of draws and one loss in 131 fights. He also had 3 winning streaks of over 30 wins. 40 wins, 36 wins, 38 wins. Even Armstrong only one win streak over 30.
Pep,Wilde and Chavez had great records and were great fighters. However, Chavez didn't fight the competition that Robinson did, and Pep and Wilde's competiton during their "streaks" weren't even remotely close.

Robinson had one loss in 131 fights to a great fighter that outweighed by 16 pounds. Not only that, he actually beat that fighter 4 times though greatly outweighed. Not to mention stoping him again when he was a middleweight.

Robinson didn't just fight La Motta 5 times (and beat him 4 times) when Robinson wasn't a middleweight. He also beat Hall of Famers Gavilan, Angott, Olson, and Zivic. Not to mention good fighters like Bell, Doyle,Belloise,Villemain,Servo, and Delanoit etc.

I love how in your view Gavilan beat Robinson. You never saw them fight
That is a great achievement...NO question about that...By no means Robinson first 132 fights were overrated. All I am saying that Wilde, Pep and Chavez did almost the same or were not different. Chavez beat a lot of good and quality opponents in his streak. So did Pep. Wilde??? Well, he was a flyweight in a division that does not have enough recognition, but still what he did is comparable to Robinson's.

I go with Armstrong at #1 because of what he did in a short period of time, was a career to many fighters. He averaged 13 fights a year. He won 46 fights in a row. Robinson in his 25 years as a pro fought 200 bouts. Armstrong had 182 in only 14 years as a pro. If Armstrong had 25 years as a pro, he would have had over 300 fights.

But how about this Alp: Did Robinson defended the crown 19 times?
Did Robinson has defended the crown 11 times in a year?
Did Robison ever has defended the crown 3 times in a month?
Did Robinson ever won 27 fights in a row in one year?
Did Robinson ever won 27 fights in a row by KO?

Armstrong did all this? wow...what a fighter...To me, he is the greatest!!! Hail to the new King: Henry Armstrong!!!:TU:

Pep had a similar win/loss record but his competiton wasn't nearly as good. Chavez had some good competition but didn't have near the # of wins as Robinson. Wilde didn't have as many wins and didn't have nearly the competition.
Why don't you make a list of the top 10 wins that Pep, Wilde and Chavez had and compare them to the Top 10 that Robinson had during his streak.

As Tantum pointed out with Lamar Clark, winning streaks or a ko streaks can be deceiving.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 26 Oct 2007, 11:42

I was not considering Robinson a middleweight until he fought at over Jr Middleweight limit (154). which he didn't do until the last fight.

However, there was no Jr Middleweight division at the time, so Robinson would be a middleweight when he was over 147.
So Robinson was 2-1 against LaMotta when he was within the welterweight limit. and 3-0 when he was over.

1st fight,LaMotta outweighed him 157-145. Robinson won decision.
2nd fight, LaMotta outweighed him 160-144. LaMotta won decision.
3rd fight, LaMotta outweighed him 160-145, Robinson won decision.
4th fight, LaMotta outweighed him 158-148 and a half. Robinson won decison.
5th fight, LaMotta outweighed him 159-150. Robinson won decision.
6th fight, LaMotta outweighed him 160- 155 and a half. Robinson by TKO the 13th.

No matter how you look at it, that is pretty impressive for Robinson to beat a great middleweight like LaMotta 5 out of 6 times even though he was outweighed by a fairly significant amount.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 26 Oct 2007, 17:16

Tantum wrote:Did Armstrong ever win 43 fights in a row in 2 years all by KO?

Did Armstrong ever knock out 6 guys in one night??

ALL HAIL THE NEW KING, LAMAR CLARK!!

Would have been the king if his quality of opposition wins includes, Ali, Doug Jones, Patterson, Johansson and a slew of good contenders. Armstrong did it with the best opposition, including the magnificent Barney Ross...I know that you are joking in your last comment, right?

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 26 Oct 2007, 18:02

One of the most remakable feats in boxing was when Duran beat Iran Barkley to win his 4th world title at age 37. Nobody gave Duran a shot to win the fight.

Every time I see that fight, I got to scratch my head and say: "Wow"...Duran was amazing!!!

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 26 Oct 2007, 22:36

Goodnight, Irene wrote:It won't get to #1, but Douglas victory over that version of Tyson can never be understated.

What Ali accomplished against Foreman in Zaire is definiely remarkable,but if you're Ali you always have a chance. But Douglas crumbling Tyson.-The most astounding boxing event I've ever seen. Consider Douglas's accomplishments before and after that fight. Nothing. It's like a dream. Ali/Foreman had an unbelievable build up prior to the bout. Tyson/Douglas was on regular TV. The Japanese crowd was quiet thru the entire fight.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 27 Oct 2007, 00:56

Douglas did have talent. But he was a lazy fighter. He wasn't lazy for that fight, while Tyson was starting to become the lazy fighter he would be for much of his later career. Its a nice achievement, but I wouldn't call it the greatest of achievements in the history of the sport.

I'm not really sure what I would go with. Archie Moore's KO record deserves a mention. I don't know that its the biggest acheivement, but 141 KO's will never be broken.

----

BTW, I don't mind someone ranking Armstrong the best fighter of all time, though I disagree with it, but do you have to be so obnoxious about it? Chill the fornicate out elmer. You'd think he'd just discovered the New World, when this is a position that many people have, and have had for some time.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 27 Oct 2007, 01:06

That's probably true.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 28 Oct 2007, 12:59

hagler's wins over Tony Sibson and Thomas Hearns. What versatility! He did it so much better than Sugar Ray Leonard who 3/4 the time didn't know what he was doing. What an idiot.

Let's not forget the Hamsho fights and Caveman Lee. What incredible power.

Hagler "Skill, brains, guts, heart, chin, power and ready to rock and roll".

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 28 Oct 2007, 14:13

elmersalsa wrote:
Tantum wrote:Did Armstrong ever win 43 fights in a row in 2 years all by KO?

Did Armstrong ever knock out 6 guys in one night??

ALL HAIL THE NEW KING, LAMAR CLARK!!
Would have been the king if his quality of opposition wins includes, Ali, Doug Jones, Patterson, Johansson and a slew of good contenders. Armstrong did it with the best opposition, including the magnificent Barney Ross...I know that you are joking in your last comment, right?

Lamar Clark would have beat the shit out of Henry Armstrong.

ALL HAIL TO THE KING!!!

P4P G.O.A.T. LAMAR CLARK!!

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Oct 2007, 01:01

Tantum wrote:
elmersalsa wrote:
Tantum wrote:Did Armstrong ever win 43 fights in a row in 2 years all by KO?

Did Armstrong ever knock out 6 guys in one night??

ALL HAIL THE NEW KING, LAMAR CLARK!!
Would have been the king if his quality of opposition wins includes, Ali, Doug Jones, Patterson, Johansson and a slew of good contenders. Armstrong did it with the best opposition, including the magnificent Barney Ross...I know that you are joking in your last comment, right?
Lamar Clark would have beat the shit out of Henry Armstrong.

ALL HAIL TO THE KING!!!

P4P G.O.A.T. LAMAR CLARK!!

He (Lamar Clark) would also destroyed Robinson too.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Oct 2007, 01:04

How about Saensak Muansgurin winning the title in only his third fight?

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 Oct 2007, 21:07

I read Lamar Clark had the biggest dick ever recorded for a boxer as well.

G.O.A.T. LAMAR CLARK!

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 Oct 2007, 21:19

Other great achievements:

Joe Louis record of most title defenses with 25 (world record)
Wilfredo Gomez 17 KOs in a row in title defenses (world record)
Gomez winning 14 in a row by KO in title bouts (world record)

Hal Bagwell 180-fight unbeaten streak
Julio Cesar Chavez' 87 wins in a row.
Chavez' 31 world title wins

These are records tough to break.

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 31 Oct 2007, 08:08

Harry Greb's record of 260-21 is more impressive than any others.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 31 Oct 2007, 13:41

Other achievement:

Joe Louis' three consecutive win by K.O. in the 1st for the undisputed World Heavyweight Championship

6-22-1938 - Max Schmeling ... WKO 1
1-25-1939 - John Henry Lewis ... WKO 1
4-17-1939 - Jack Roper ... WKO 1

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 31 Oct 2007, 13:48

When Henry Armstrong win three World Titles, in a time of eight weights and only one World Champion in each class: near of the half of World Titles in their hands!

Today, who is a "world" "champion"?

Friedie · Post by **Friedie** » 31 Oct 2007, 17:26

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:When Henry Armstrong win three World Titles, in a time of eight weights and only one World Champion in each class: near of the half of World Titles in their hands!

Today, who is a "world" "champion"?

or you can ask: ....today, who is not a "world" "champion" ?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 31 Oct 2007, 20:24

Decagon wrote:The only true World Champions are Pavlik, Hatton, Mayweather and the winner of Kessler-Calzaghe.

So is the winner of Mayweather v Hatton a legitimate 2 weight World Champion?

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 04 Nov 2007, 13:38

i dont think there is 1 clear winner there is a huge list of amazing accomlishments but some do stand out for me

wilfred benitez winning the title at 17 what were most other fighters doing at that age?

chavez's 87 wins in a row there were many bums but also some very very good fighters

amstrongs 3 world title's who else could you imangine doing this

ali coming back from 3 years of doing nothing beatin a top contender in quarry first time out and then taking on frazier and giving frazier a tough hard close fight when the experts said it couldnt be done (there is a video on youtube of cus damato telling ali he wont be able to do it)

louis 25 straight defences

robinson deserves a mention fighting when he was past his best and still being the best middleweight in the world

Saensak Muansgurin winning a world title in his 3rd fight

foreman winning a world title at 44 or 45 even though is has been said he had hand picked opponents but never the less a great accomlishment

DLH 6 weight world champion even if there was some questionable decisoins

Wilfredo Gomez 17 KOs in a row in title defenses
im sure i have missed a few

What fighter has the greatest achievement?

Unbeliavable