Foreman's Top 10

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:05

In an interview in a British newspaper 2 years ago Foreman put this forward as his top 10...

1 Joe Louis
2 Rocky Marciano
3 Lennox Lewis
4 Mike Tyson
5 JL Sullivan
6 Jack Dempsey
7 Muhammad Ali
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Larry Holmes
10 Gene Tunney

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:08

Ezzard wrote:...5 JL Sullivan

WOOOHOOO!!!

Big George really knows his boxing.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:53

That's pretty different from the top 10 on his own website. I bet if you asked him 10 different days he'd give you 10 different lists.

Foreman is all over the place. Tyson over Ali? Holyfield over Holmes?
Guess he doesn't think too much of Joe Frazier . . .

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Oct 2007, 10:08

dempseyfire wrote:That's pretty different from the top 10 on his own website. I bet if you asked him 10 different days he'd give you 10 different lists.

Foreman is all over the place. Tyson over Ali? Holyfield over Holmes?
Guess he doesn't think too much of Joe Frazier . . .

I don't think that George is exactly a boxing historian, although he does know enough to recognize the greatness of JLS!!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 10:28

When Silkov sees his #2 there's going to be trouble.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Oct 2007, 10:40

Ezzard wrote:When Silkov sees his #2 there's going to be trouble.

Should be great fun!!

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 19 Oct 2007, 14:06

I'm ecstatic over Liston not being included.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 19 Oct 2007, 14:08

I think Ali not only took his pride, but his sanity, that night back in 1974!!

Muhammad Ali at number 7?

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis?

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 22 Oct 2007, 05:00

I've seen Foreman list Frazier in his top 10 before.

I've also heard Foreman say that Max Baer was a prototype Muhammad Ali, and that "fancy footwork originated with Max Baer".
That's a pretty interesting observation

-KOKid-

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 22 Oct 2007, 05:49

-KOKid- wrote:I've seen Foreman list Frazier in his top 10 before.

I've also heard Foreman say that Max Baer was a prototype Muhammad Ali, and that "fancy footwork originated with Max Baer".
That's a pretty interesting observation

-KOKid-

He comes up with some golden quotes, does Big George

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:26

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
-KOKid- wrote:I've seen Foreman list Frazier in his top 10 before.

I've also heard Foreman say that Max Baer was a prototype Muhammad Ali, and that "fancy footwork originated with Max Baer".
That's a pretty interesting observation

-KOKid-
He comes up with some golden quotes, does Big George

Like......."someone loosened the ropes"?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:35

lol! That was one Foreman excuse that actually turned out to be true, they were loose. Who knows what kind of crazy shit went on down there, anyway. Foreman absolutely should have won that fight, but didn't, & as a Foreman fan I often wonder where his career goes had he blasted Ali as he, by rights, should have accomplished. Probably he stays on until Holmes arrives, as which point that becomes a very hard fight to pick (IMO, anyway).

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:38

What about the concubus thing?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:40

Actually, George may have lasted into the Holmes era but by that stage Larry would have schooled a shopworn George. He was never going to have a long career considering the way he fought in his first career

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:48

What was that concubus thing again? You jogged my memory it sounds familiar but I can't reach the details. I think Foreman had the capacity for a longish career because even though his style was dependent on a VERY high energy output (which isn't helpful as you get older & is gared toward youth) he may've lasted a while because, Lyle aside, he never really got hurt. A cut here against Gregorio Peralta, a bruise there against Jimmy Young, but nothing like what a Frazier or Marciano endured. Foreman was responsible for 95% of all damage dished out in his fights from either man.

But if he were to beat Larry Holmes he would have to be at the top of his game, & in his prime. I can see Foreman beating Holmes & vice versa, but he won't get it done if he's started to age, which, as you pointed out, he may have done by the late 70's when the late-arriving Holmes was ready to roll.

Prime-to-prime I just slightly favour Foreman but it's hard to call.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 22 Oct 2007, 06:52

The concubus thing was some BS about a female voodoo vixen sent to George to drain him of his energy before the fight. Or something like that. It was nuts

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 22 Oct 2007, 21:27

Actually it was a succubus. The whole thing was a plot by Ali saying that he met a voodoo witch doctor to put a succubus on Foreman, to curse him. Whether it was all a joke or not is up for speculation, but it did seem extremely odd considering the Nation of Islam was highly against occult activities, yet Ali did it any way.

Could have been Ali just playing mind games on Foreman, like he done with Ken Norton in their third fight when he brought a black cat to the pre fight conference, or when he bought a cap gun and started shooting at Joe Frazier in Manila, trying to make Frazier scared of him.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Oct 2007, 01:17

Foreman would never beat Ali. The ropes are a convenient excuse, except Ali was as effective in the corners (which you can't bend) as he was on the ropes... if not more so.

As for Foreman's list, what can one say. The only thing that surprises me is that he doesn't include himself.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Oct 2007, 15:23

People can call Foreman's list ridiculous, but then again, so was Joe Frazier's as he placed himself at #3 right behind Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, with Ali being #4. His logic was that he was the first to beat Ali, hence he was better. I don't exactly see the logic in that, but nonetheless.

If truth be told, Foreman probably could have beaten every champion there ever was, with the exception of Ali. Just too powerful, too ferocious, and Foreman could take a punch. He was only stopped once in his career, and it was due to exhaustion and humiliation. Ali won, yes, but in my mind, Foreman beat Foreman, not Ali beat Foreman.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 23 Oct 2007, 15:54

HomicideHenry wrote:If truth be told, Foreman probably could have beaten every champion there ever was, with the exception of Ali.

Yeah, as long as no one decided to box and move against him.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 23 Oct 2007, 16:48

HomicideHenry wrote: Foreman beat Foreman, not Ali beat Foreman.

Yeah but I don't agree with that homicide. Foreman was following his own gameplan. Foreman's gameplan was essentially to cut off the ring and get Ali on the ropes... it just didn't work. Foreman fought Ali the way Foreman fought all his other opponents. Its easy for us in hindsight to say that Foreman should have done something different, but Foreman was only doing what he had always done, and up until that point he had been very successful. Gold medal, 41-0, Heavyweight title, wins over Frazier and Norton... all that came from using his power, not letting fighters off the hook, throwing punches non-stop until the opponent collapsed. It just didn't work with Ali. Its easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but Foreman was only using what got him there.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Oct 2007, 23:31

I'm not saying that at the time it was a stupid game plan for Foreman to do that. I don't think nobody in the world would have told Foreman that the way he fought against Norton, Frazier, Roman and others wouldn't have worked against Ali. It never failed before, so why would it against Ali?

Unfortunately for Foreman, it didn't work. Then people, still to this day, criticize Foreman for fighting that way. Maybe had he forced Ali to come to him, like he did against Fraizer, Lyle, Norton, Roman, he would have won. Maybe had he trained differently to be more conditioned, to score points, and then bang in the later rounds, he could have won.

But that didn't happen. Wouldn't be until 1987 would we see a wiser, better skilled, more patient Foreman come on the scene.

I still don't believe that Ali genuinely knocked Foreman out. George got up between the nine and ten count, and turned away from the referee. He quit in the ring, he was too humiliated and knew he didn't have nothing left. That he couldn't bomb Ali out like he done to 40+ victims before.

If Holyfield, Morrison, Moorer, Stewart and others couldn't knock him down or hurt him, then Ali couldn't have hurt him or knocked him out. In my mind it was a TKO, Foreman gave up, but he wasn't hurt. More stunned than anything that could have actually happened to him.

I think had there been a rematch, Foreman might have prevailed.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Oct 2007, 23:54

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

ur wrong

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 24 Oct 2007, 10:07

HomicideHenry wrote:I'm not saying that at the time it was a stupid game plan for Foreman to do that. I don't think nobody in the world would have told Foreman that the way he fought against Norton, Frazier, Roman and others wouldn't have worked against Ali. It never failed before, so why would it against Ali?

Unfortunately for Foreman, it didn't work. Then people, still to this day, criticize Foreman for fighting that way. Maybe had he forced Ali to come to him, like he did against Fraizer, Lyle, Norton, Roman, he would have won. Maybe had he trained differently to be more conditioned, to score points, and then bang in the later rounds, he could have won.

But that didn't happen. Wouldn't be until 1987 would we see a wiser, better skilled, more patient Foreman come on the scene.

I still don't believe that Ali genuinely knocked Foreman out. George got up between the nine and ten count, and turned away from the referee. He quit in the ring, he was too humiliated and knew he didn't have nothing left. That he couldn't bomb Ali out like he done to 40+ victims before.

If Holyfield, Morrison, Moorer, Stewart and others couldn't knock him down or hurt him, then Ali couldn't have hurt him or knocked him out. In my mind it was a TKO, Foreman gave up, but he wasn't hurt. More stunned than anything that could have actually happened to him.

I think had there been a rematch, Foreman might have prevailed.

If Holyfield, Morrison,Moorer,Stewart and other couldn't knock him down or hurt him, then Ali couldn't have hurt him or knocked him out?
Couldn't have? Well he did.
Ali wasn't a huge puncher but he had gradually worn Foreman down. Most knockouts aren't by one punch. Ali landed many sharp punches through out the fight which combined with Foreman punching himself out won the fight for him. Then he finished him off in the 8th. Foreman was knocked down. He got up but didn't quite beat the count. He wasn't in any condition to last much longer anyway.
Foreman gave up? What are you talking about?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 24 Oct 2007, 20:55

Actually Foreman did beat the count at 9. Clayton messed up on that one. & to be clear, no I'm not saying he was going to get up & win or anything, but champions have the right to try against the odds.

It's kind of curious that Foreman was never stopped, & only once knocked out, when he really beat that count. You could say he never got KO'd in his first career because he didn't take a lot of punishment, just dished it out, but there's no excuses for his second career. He was just a tough SOB.

Foreman's Top 10

Foreman's Top 10

Re: Foreman's Top 10