Britain's most under-rated boxers

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 26 Oct 2007, 04:30

What do you think?

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2778- ... oxers.html

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 26 Oct 2007, 05:01

I'm honestly not being a pudendum here, but i dont get what your definition of under-rated is

Points 1 and 2 seem to contradict each other, no?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Oct 2007, 05:07

Controvesial I would say, Oliver. I

Can see your arguement over Khan.

I think it might be me personally with regards to Danny Williams - I've always rated him highly, always thought he had World class potential. Time and time again he has let me down.... I still think he is EBU level and if remains in the shape he was vs Gammer might prize away a world title from the poorest champion. Many on here would say I am crazy - but personally I admit to probably overated him.

Might be better to call Woods - "under exposed" as opposed to "under rated" - Think he has achieved his potential. Not sure if wins over the likes of Jones and Tarver will lift his creditials greatly cause they are both shot to shit and I would think Tarver would lose to Johnson and Gonzalez now.

Can see what you say on John McDermmott - but at best he will only be a short term British champ (ala Gammer) in the interim between the Skelton/Williams/Sprott/Audley generation retiring or becoming shot, and a new guard. Okay - I don't see anyone in the horizon just yet, but he will NEVER amount to anything more. His punch resistance isn't good enough.

Not sure I agree with you on Small either - I don't think there is anyone who has doubted the man has ability. Many were tipping him for EBU honours at least certainly before the Contender fight. I don't think even the biggest Bradley Pryce fan, believed Small had NO chance vs Sugar Sweet. Alot of the people who tipped Pryce did so cause there was no proof that Small could step up.... but if he could, then Small would have been a big favourite. It was a little like the Naz EBU title fight at Super Bantam a lifetime ago, the ones that tipped Belcastro did so primarily cause there was no proof (thats all) that Naz could do what he had been doing at a lower level up at EBU level. Similarly with Small, just now we have had an answer - NO.

Here some I would have considered.
Tomas McDonagh
Danny Hunt (if he is still boxing)
Rob Norton
Marcus Portman
Andrew Facey
Tony Doherty - Depend on how high you consider him
Ashley Theophane
Rendell Munroe

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 26 Oct 2007, 05:14

Good shout with facey Stu.... reckon he'll give Morsey a good go tongiht, with jamie pulling through.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 26 Oct 2007, 06:04

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Points 1 and 2 seem to contradict each other, no?

What are these points? You mean Woods and Khan?

Well, how you are "rated" is not the same as how much exposure you get. Woods is under-rated because his profile is low, and so people (especially outside Britain) think he must not be that good.

Khan, on the other hand, is better than Joe Public thinks, because they expect better from somebody who is hyped so much, without understanding how careers are built in the early going.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 26 Oct 2007, 06:13

stujones wrote:Controvesial I would say, Oliver. I

Can see your arguement over Khan.

I think it might be me personally with regards to Danny Williams - I've always rated him highly, always thought he had World class potential. Time and time again he has let me down.... I still think he is EBU level and if remains in the shape he was vs Gammer might prize away a world title from the poorest champion. Many on here would say I am crazy - but personally I admit to probably overated him.

Might be better to call Woods - "under exposed" as opposed to "under rated" - Think he has achieved his potential. Not sure if wins over the likes of Jones and Tarver will lift his creditials greatly cause they are both shot to shit and I would think Tarver would lose to Johnson and Gonzalez now.

Can see what you say on John McDermmott - but at best he will only be a short term British champ (ala Gammer) in the interim between the Skelton/Williams/Sprott/Audley generation retiring or becoming shot, and a new guard. Okay - I don't see anyone in the horizon just yet, but he will NEVER amount to anything more. His punch resistance isn't good enough.

Not sure I agree with you on Small either - I don't think there is anyone who has doubted the man has ability. Many were tipping him for EBU honours at least certainly before the Contender fight. I don't think even the biggest Bradley Pryce fan, believed Small had NO chance vs Sugar Sweet. Alot of the people who tipped Pryce did so cause there was no proof that Small could step up.... but if he could, then Small would have been a big favourite. It was a little like the Naz EBU title fight at Super Bantam a lifetime ago, the ones that tipped Belcastro did so primarily cause there was no proof (thats all) that Naz could do what he had been doing at a lower level up at EBU level. Similarly with Small, just now we have had an answer - NO.

Here some I would have considered.
Tomas McDonagh
Danny Hunt (if he is still boxing)
Rob Norton
Marcus Portman
Andrew Facey
Tony Doherty - Depend on how high you consider him
Ashley Theophane
Rendell Munroe

Nice feedback, Stu. Obviously these are only the opinions of one man (me), so debate is most welcome. You might rate Danny highly, but I think it's safe to say the majority don't. His general persona is of an underachiever with a punch and heart and little more.

I don't remember anybody saying Small was Euro material just yet. The jury was very much out, which was why the Pryce match was so intriguing. But my point is that most focused simply on the fact he lost, without looking at the PERFORMANCE, which did show he was more contender than pretender.

As for your list:

McDonagh - I don't rate him anyway (again, just the author's opinion)
Hunt - not fighting
Norton - good call; worthy of consideration
Portman - possibly, but has had enough setbacks before to suggest we know his level
Facey - I think most recognise his qualities
Doherty - jury still out
Theophane - also worthy of consideration, but let's see him in a title fight first
Munroe - was under-rated, but the Callaghan win has gotten people's attentions

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 26 Oct 2007, 06:40

I don't think Danny can be called under rated, he's found his level and has lost nearly everytime he's stepped up. the Gammer win looks ok, but why hasn't he followed it up.

Anthony Small, although he looks good early he seems to run out of steam and ideas later on in a fight, bit like his trainer Spencer Feron used to do. Not sure he's even going to get to British title level.

My under rated fighters are

John Simpson , might surprise a few how far he goes.
Courtney Fry, but not sure he hasn't left it too late to make his move
Rendall Munroe, hidden away on undercards.

World scene

Eromosele Albert, hard light middle.
Tony Thompson, i was singing his praises a couple of years ago. on the verge of a title shot

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 26 Oct 2007, 06:42

oliverfennell wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Points 1 and 2 seem to contradict each other, no?
What are these points? You mean Woods and Khan?

Well, how you are "rated" is not the same as how much exposure you get. Woods is under-rated because his profile is low, and so people (especially outside Britain) think he must not be that good.

Khan, on the other hand, is better than Joe Public thinks, because they expect better from somebody who is hyped so much, without understanding how careers are built in the early going.

Im just mucking about, i couldnt work out weather buy under-rated you meant Woods was, because he was unknown outside of Sheffield, whereas Khan was underated despite his high profile. But i couldnt work out by who

probably best to ignore, anyway

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 26 Oct 2007, 07:00

Old bones Ian wrote:I don't think Danny can be called under rated, he's found his level and has lost nearly everytime he's stepped up. the Gammer win looks ok, but why hasn't he followed it up.

Anthony Small, although he looks good early he seems to run out of steam and ideas later on in a fight, bit like his trainer Spencer Feron used to do. Not sure he's even going to get to British title level.

My under rated fighters are

John Simpson , might surprise a few how far he goes.
Courtney Fry, but not sure he hasn't left it too late to make his move
Rendall Munroe, hidden away on undercards.

World scene

Eromosele Albert, hard light middle.
Tony Thompson, i was singing his praises a couple of years ago. on the verge of a title shot

I agree Danny has probably gone as far as he's likely to go, but my point was how people look at the moribund British scene as a whole and tarnish him by association, while I feel he is better (when in shape) and/or has achieved more than the other three, but often isn't recognised for this.

Simpson would have been a perfect example of an under-rated fighter before Morris 3, but I don't think anybody's going to take him lightly after that.

Mario · Post by **Mario** » 26 Oct 2007, 07:26

Definitely agree with McDermott, he got caught cold by Skelton and always looks out of shape but he i'd love to see him take on someone established like Williams or Sprott. He's an ABA champion and he certainly looked like he could bang earlier in his career. He definitely looks a class above most others at domestic level these days but its hard to see him going much further.

I personally like Anthony Small and im sure he'll be back, i wouldnt even be surprised to see him avenge the Pryce loss. And with his style and his big mouth i reckon if he does come good everyone will know about it.

One ommission from the list that came to mind was Dean Francis who must be one of the most talented British fighters of recent years, although i dont know whether you'd say he was underrated, or just that he didnt realise his potential.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 26 Oct 2007, 07:46

Tripe, sorry Oliver... Woods i agree on... Danny Williams isnt under-rated, people know he can fight at higher, but coming in at 20 stone ect, you get rated on preformance of present day. Stinkers all over the place in the HW division, none of them are "Underated"

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 26 Oct 2007, 08:50

Razor wrote:Tripe, sorry Oliver... Woods i agree on... Danny Williams isnt under-rated, people know he can fight at higher, but coming in at 20 stone ect, you get rated on preformance of present day. Stinkers all over the place in the HW division, none of them are "Underated"

I agree completely he only has himself to blame for poor conditioning and motivation at times, and even that these instances outweight the good ones. I'm not saying he's a world-beater, but my position is that he deserves more respect than the other three, rather than being lumped in with them. You say you get rated on performances - well, even so, Danny has achieved more than the other three guys.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Oct 2007, 08:58

Rob Norton was a good shout Stu - never gets a mention but his size and counter punching skills make him a very competitive for everyone..

rooney · Post by **rooney** » 26 Oct 2007, 15:00

michael monaghon is not bad!

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 26 Oct 2007, 15:26

I think Juniour Witter is under rated on the same grounds that Woods is both of them aren't heard of or respected and Witter is only mentioned as someone hatton won't fight.

I think the general public rate Khan very highly, otherwise he wouldn't be able to carry ITV shows on his own, its only people on these boards who don't respect him and even the doubters are more suspicouse of the light punchin nature of his opponents to this point not of his talent.

E · Post by E » 26 Oct 2007, 15:28

It's easy to criticise, but I guess 'underrated' is a relative concept. I mean only the other week I overheard someone in the pub say wnat a great week of british sport it was including khan's decimation of Lawton.

But he's not a hardcore boxing anorak clearly. But if we were judging the overall populace, Khan would be the best bristish boxer ever etc etc

But regardless of whwther you're a die hard fan or casual, Khan is an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully a gutsy undervalued warrior like Earl will do it.

Small??????? Too early to say....but he's no sugar ray clay etc etc

Woods - great call.

I think Tony Oakey may merit inclusion.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 26 Oct 2007, 15:38

i think oakey has peaked at his level, his life or death with kiarsten proved that.

Matt Teague · Post by **Matt Teague** » 26 Oct 2007, 16:27

I think Colin Lynes is a quality boxer, never seems to get too much credit.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 26 Oct 2007, 16:39

John Murray over Khan, Oliver. He's been in Khan's shadow for too long.

Not convinced about McDermott either TBH.

Others are spot on! Especially Small who I thought was thrown in the deep end too early.

E · Post by E » 26 Oct 2007, 17:05

Matt Teague wrote:I think Colin Lynes is a quality boxer, never seems to get too much credit.

good call.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Oct 2007, 18:29

Matt Teague wrote:I think Colin Lynes is a quality boxer, never seems to get too much credit.

Had this been 2-3 months ago I would have agreed - but obviously EBU title been given alot of credit by some members here.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 27 Oct 2007, 15:14

E wrote:It's easy to criticise, but I guess 'underrated' is a relative concept. I mean only the other week I overheard someone in the pub say wnat a great week of british sport it was including khan's decimation of Lawton.

He was obviously regurgitating what Khan himself said - "first the rugby and F1, and now this; a great weekend for British sport."

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 27 Oct 2007, 15:33

Darren McDermott still flies under many people's radars due to lack of TV exposure - he is British class no doubt and is ready to mix it with the best domestically IMO.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Oct 2007, 17:47

TerribleTerry wrote:Darren McDermott still flies under many people's radars due to lack of TV exposure - he is British class no doubt and is ready to mix it with the best domestically IMO.

Very good call.

thaibox uk · Post by **thaibox uk** » 28 Oct 2007, 04:39

Matt Skelton! Turning pro at such a late age and using
his will beats skill aproach has beaten everybody he`se faced
yet hardly ever gets credit for it.