NAZ - Hall of Fame?

[stujones]

re Zuniga on Setanta: Barry used Zuniga's record as the gospel to say that he was a monster puncher. Zuniga is not that kind of puncher. He hits hard but does it cumulatively. He did drop Pavlik early but that was when he caught him cold; his career best performance would be a steady beatdown of Oganov in his next fight...So IMO Barry was wrong.

Here's what I think of Barry: on UK broadcasts he rubs me up the wrong way. On US, I think he's vastly superior to the expert commentators/color guys.

But didn't Bunce call him a "nothing puncher" - whether you think its culmative or one punch KO power - he isn't as light as what Bunce was saying.

I personally don't think McGuigan was out of order here, but I CAN see your point. However, my biggest gripe with that "exchange" was Bunce's response saying its all very well you with your computers etc. What no internet access in the US... We all knew weeks in advance that Zuniga was fighting on the bill and it was being televised. Surely a quick name search on here or with the fightfax would have sufficised - even if its "He has a good KO record but mainly late in fights and against low level opposition" instead of - suggesting he seen him millions of times and he cannot punch for toffee. Barry Jones was a fighter who cannot punch for toffee.

[KO Artist]

Barry, was a world class amatuer , wrold champion pro, beat Eusebio Pedroza over 15 rounds and countless other world class fighters, set the game on fire, here and in the US.

How Ant Evans knows more about boxing than him is anyones fcuking guess. Evans might have read more books and magazines than Barry, and he has obviously written more, but what does that mean.

I would tell Ant Evans this, if you have got a gripe with Barry, invite him to put the gloves on, for charity of course.

You might learn a bit more about boxing than you had bargained for.

I partially agree, don't think you have HAD TO HAVE stepped through the ropes to know about the game. For example, I might be wrong but I am sure Bob Mee hasn't fought.... However, he clearly knows his stuff - not just his stats and figures but also his commentary shows that he knows the "feel" of a fight - he can predict and outcome, he can see the shots that are doing the damage. Invariably, far more impressively than Steve Holdsworth who has stepped through the ropes.

But naturally I don't think the knowledge of someone of McGuigan's experience should be in doubt - maybe he is not a human encyclopedia - but he knows about boxers and boxing more than most. I don't know how him or Watt would fair in a pub quiz on boxing - but I would be hard pressed to find anyone better to discuss the "feel" of a fight between two fighters they have never heard off or seen before.

What McGuigan has been through as a boxer man and boy means he has first hand experience. Much more than ANY writer who has never fought.

Sure, some writers are exceptinally talented and present their work well whilst offering the reader a great insight.

But McGuigans experience of actually fighting would lead me to grant him a great deal of respect.

McGuigan knows what it is like to dig deep, to doubt yourself when you are getting hit, late in a fight, when its tough. He also knows how to overcome those situations.

As far as I know Ant Evans has NEVER been in such a situation, so his comments about McGuigans ignorance are abhorent. OK Barry might not be Statto, but who gives a fcuk.

[SticknMove]

Who was McGuigan's stat man for the Cotto vs Judah bill for Setanta - was there anyone. There seemed to be a live spat between Bunce and McGuigan and because McGuigan correctly (IMO) stated that the record of Zuniga suggested the Bunce opinion was wrong... Bunce then said stuff like "well you in the studio have the advantage of looking at Computers etc".... Thats more than likely correct.

Does this mean though that because Barry relies on notes and relies on nick other peoples work/opinions that he knows nowt about the sport.... Absolutely rediculous if you believe that. For me, knowledge of the sport is not if you know the date of when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake La Motta the second time or if you can analyse the information that fight fax provides - but if you can have a feel for a fight. If you know when a fighter is tiring, if you can see that a body shot (or something) is working and hurting etc etc. Can generally pick up what is going on in front of you. I don't care if you have never seen these two fighters in your life.

There a plenty of guys who have an excellent grasp of English and there are plenty of people who can read and remember fight records - people who actually know whats happening in front of them is not so common. McGuigan certainly knows that.

Well I think it was the Hatton-Castillo bill Stu wasn’t it? The spat started over the Zuniga- Echolls fight where Bunce wasn’t calling the action but giving opinions and anecdotes and saying that the fight should be stopped. McGuigan said something along the lines that Zuniga is a big puncher, obviously referring to his record, but hadn’t put Echolls over. Echolls was punching back throughout and, although his legs didn’t look great to begin with, everytime he took a decent shot Duke and Bunce were saying it was ridiculous that the fight wasn’t stopped. Then Bunce belted up and gave an anecdote that Echolls reminded him of some of those ex fighters that hang around Vegas hoping to get on the end of an entourage leading the next flavour of the month out. Whether he is right or wrong in that, there is no place for it live commentary IMO. It is totally out of order and disrespectful to both fighters and to the game. I think this rubbed McGuigan up the wrong way and I couldn’t have agreed more because I didn’t like it at the time either (I had an online spat with AB online at the time).

You would never get an ex-fighter saying something like that because they respect what it takes to be in there in the first place. McGuigan, if he understands anything, knows what it takes to start boxing at an early age, sacrifice much and achieve in the amateur game and go on to single mindedly produce as a professional (however brief that was).

As you rightly say, any boxing writer with a good or great grasp of the English language can swot up and retain knowledge, watch all the back catelogue of fights and everything in running and acquire a slant based on what the ‘great’ boxing writers of the past have written. There is much to be criticised in boxing, but it shouldn’t start with the raw material – the fighters themselves. There’s plenty of bollocks surrounding the sport for sharply honed critics to get their teeth into.

I don’t care for Bunce his voice irritates me, his tenor irritates me and what he has to say is peripheral to what interests me – the fight itself. I have more interest in a reasonably articulate ex world champion analysing a fight than someone that has never had the balls or inclination to lace a glove up (mind you Duke disappoints me a lot). I have no need for the colour that he provides, but I unselfishly acknowledge that he has a place in the game.

[KO Artist]

Who was McGuigan's stat man for the Cotto vs Judah bill for Setanta - was there anyone. There seemed to be a live spat between Bunce and McGuigan and because McGuigan correctly (IMO) stated that the record of Zuniga suggested the Bunce opinion was wrong... Bunce then said stuff like "well you in the studio have the advantage of looking at Computers etc".... Thats more than likely correct.

Does this mean though that because Barry relies on notes and relies on nick other peoples work/opinions that he knows nowt about the sport.... Absolutely rediculous if you believe that. For me, knowledge of the sport is not if you know the date of when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake La Motta the second time or if you can analyse the information that fight fax provides - but if you can have a feel for a fight. If you know when a fighter is tiring, if you can see that a body shot (or something) is working and hurting etc etc. Can generally pick up what is going on in front of you. I don't care if you have never seen these two fighters in your life.

There a plenty of guys who have an excellent grasp of English and there are plenty of people who can read and remember fight records - people who actually know whats happening in front of them is not so common. McGuigan certainly knows that.

Well I think it was the Hatton-Castillo bill Stu wasn’t it? The spat started over the Zuniga- Echolls fight where Bunce wasn’t calling the action but giving opinions and anecdotes and saying that the fight should be stopped. McGuigan said something along the lines that Zuniga is a big puncher, obviously referring to his record, but hadn’t put Echolls over. Echolls was punching back throughout and, although his legs didn’t look great to begin with, everytime he took a decent shot Duke and Bunce were saying it was ridiculous that the fight wasn’t stopped. Then Bunce belted up and gave an anecdote that Echolls reminded him of some of those ex fighters that hang around Vegas hoping to get on the end of an entourage leading the next flavour of the month out. Whether he is right or wrong in that, there is no place for it live commentary IMO. It is totally out of order and disrespectful to both fighters and to the game. I think this rubbed McGuigan up the wrong way and I couldn’t have agreed more because I didn’t like it at the time either (I had an online spat with AB online at the time).

You would never get an ex-fighter saying something like that because they respect what it takes to be in there in the first place. McGuigan, if he understands anything, knows what it takes to start boxing at an early age, sacrifice much and achieve in the amateur game and go on to single mindedly produce as a professional (however brief that was).

As you rightly say, any boxing writer with a good or great grasp of the English language can swot up and retain knowledge, watch all the back catelogue of fights and everything in running and acquire a slant based on what the ‘great’ boxing writers of the past have written. There is much to be criticised in boxing, but it shouldn’t start with the raw material – the fighters themselves. There’s plenty of bollocks surrounding the sport for sharply honed critics to get their teeth into.

I don’t care for Bunce his voice irritates me, his tenor irritates me and what he has to say is peripheral to what interests me – the fight itself. I have more interest in a reasonably articulate ex world champion analysing a fight than someone that has never had the balls or inclination to lace a glove up (mind you Duke disappoints me a lot). I have no need for the colour that he provides, but I unselfishly acknowledge that he has a place in the game.

Great post.

Steve Bunce's comments were out of order. Disgraceful in fact. I wouldnt be surprised at all if Barry pulled him up off air.

Steve actually desrved a slap over those comments.