Ike Ibeabuchi-Could He Have Been the Champ?

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 26 Oct 2007, 23:26

When I saw this guy dismantle Byrd and outslug Tua,I thought he had the goods to be the next champ. Obviously he didn't have the goods between his ears,but trying to put that aside,what do you guys think? I hope this hasn't been kicked around before.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 26 Oct 2007, 23:56

Decagon wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:When I saw this guy dismantle Byrd and outslug Tua,I thought he had the goods to be the next champ. Obviously he didn't have the goods between his ears,but trying to put that aside,what do you guys think? I hope this hasn't been kicked around before.
Of course it has. The thing is, you can't ignore what Ibeabuchi had between his ears just as you can't ignore than Floyd Patterson had a bad chin, or that Wayne McCullough couldn't punch, or that Andrew Golota was mentally retarded.

Too bad they wouldn't let Ibeabuchi fight in prison like they did with James Scott. Lots of variables though:sparring partners,publicity and security issues. Imagine fighting for the heavyweight championship inside a prison on payper view?

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 27 Oct 2007, 00:09

Decagon wrote:That would kill boxing.

If Scott would have kept on winning(getting by Qawi) where would it have led to? Would he have gotten a title shot?

The Irish Assassin · Post by **The Irish Assassin** » 27 Oct 2007, 00:16

dagosd2000 wrote:When I saw this guy dismantle Byrd and outslug Tua,I thought he had the goods to be the next champ. Obviously he didn't have the goods between his ears,but trying to put that aside,what do you guys think? I hope this hasn't been kicked around before.

If its a q about Ibeabuchi, then it has definitely been brought up already.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 27 Oct 2007, 02:36

In 1999 Michael Grant "Could be the next champion"
David Tua "Could be the next champion"
So like them Ike was to be the next Champion, however un-like them
his personality outside of the ring betrayed any talents that may have been tested at that next level.

Kym

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 27 Oct 2007, 03:12

The way he beat Byrd and Tua.
Yes.

MEISINGER · Post by **MEISINGER** » 27 Oct 2007, 08:22

Robinson wrote:In 1999 Michael Grant "Could be the next champion"
David Tua "Could be the next champion"
So like them Ike was to be the next Champion, however un-like them
his personality outside of the ring betrayed any talents that may have been tested at that next level.

Kym

great post.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 28 Oct 2007, 02:20

To the extent he accounted for Byrd, & outpointed a very true version of Tua, he was excellent & showed promise beyond some of those other, "next big things."

To be honest, I don't know if he could have brought down a Lennox Lewis at the top of his game. Of course if Lewis were underdone, well even Rahman got the job done, but then again I doubt Lewis would be complacent with the hype Ibeabuchi was generating. He might have had to wait after one failed attempt at Lewis. Certainly I wouldn't expect Wlad Klitschko to beat him, & he's now a champion.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 28 Oct 2007, 05:02

Unfortunately, it is one of those things we will never know.

Dreadful waste of a great talent.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 28 Oct 2007, 07:23

dagosd2000 wrote:When I saw this guy dismantle Byrd and outslug Tua,I thought he had the goods to be the next champ. Obviously he didn't have the goods between his ears,but trying to put that aside,what do you guys think? I hope this hasn't been kicked around before.

Only if he didn't have to fight Lennox Lewis between 1999 - 2002.

A cautious Lewis would have outboxed him IMO.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Oct 2007, 10:16

If you saw the Ike-Tua fight you know that the decision could have gone either way. And in fact the TV crew was mildly surprised that Ike got the decision. Essentially Ike fought to a draw with a Peak Tua.

Though his was a respectable resume I think it takes a bit of imagination to think that he was headed for royalty. We now know that he had a fragile psyche and though it happened to play out and effect him outside the ring you could just as easily imagine him not having the "heart" to fight more fights of that calibre. He was after all never in trouble in either the Byrd or Tua fight. Though he was fully engaged and tested by Tua I'll give you that.

I would point out what we now know about him could bring him to a "McCall moment" or something worse when the chips were down in the ring. It's just as easy (actually easier IMHO) to imagine him having a meltdown in the ring under the pressure of the championship hunt than imagining him actually overcoming the rest of the division on his way to a successfull championship event. Regardless of his wins over Byrd and Tua.

He may have had the physical gifts, but champions usually have other intangilbes to call on when things are going south in the middle of a tough fight. Things that get you back off the deck when your'e better off staying put, fighting without vision for a few rounds, enduring a broken jaw, etc. This guy would fold when it came to the character test inside or outside the ring. I don't think he was heading for greatness. Though he had a couple of great fights.

IMHO.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 28 Oct 2007, 16:26

With the crap weve got in the heavyweight division now, and since Lewis, it isnt too much of a leap of imagination to say that Ike would be champ now if hed behaved himself

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 28 Oct 2007, 18:30

I agree with Box Buzz on the point that Ibeabuchi is in the realm of a McCall critique. However,unlike a Mike Grant,who failed himself when he had to draw upon his will and determination and found it lacking,Ibeabuchi and McCall are clinically sick. McCall was manic depressive and Ibeabuchi thought whatever he did was justified(hello OJ) You had to remove him from society. When you hurt people winning a title is irrelevant.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 28 Oct 2007, 20:16

BoxBuzz wrote:If you saw the Ike-Tua fight you know that the decision could have gone either way. And in fact the TV crew was mildly surprised that Ike got the decision. Essentially Ike fought to a draw with a Peak Tua.

Though his was a respectable resume I think it takes a bit of imagination to think that he was headed for royalty. We now know that he had a fragile psyche and though it happened to play out and effect him outside the ring you could just as easily imagine him not having the "heart" to fight more fights of that calibre. He was after all never in trouble in either the Byrd or Tua fight. Though he was fully engaged and tested by Tua I'll give you that.

I would point out what we now know about him could bring him to a "McCall moment" or something worse when the chips were down in the ring. It's just as easy (actually easier IMHO) to imagine him having a meltdown in the ring under the pressure of the championship hunt than imagining him actually overcoming the rest of the division on his way to a successfull championship event. Regardless of his wins over Byrd and Tua.

He may have had the physical gifts, but champions usually have other intangilbes to call on when things are going south in the middle of a tough fight. Things that get you back off the deck when your'e better off staying put, fighting without vision for a few rounds, enduring a broken jaw, etc. This guy would fold when it came to the character test inside or outside the ring. I don't think he was heading for greatness. Though he had a couple of great fights.

IMHO.

Yours is a strong argument. The only counter I can come up with on the spot is a guy who fits your description but still made it...

Mike Tyson.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 28 Oct 2007, 20:58

Mike Tyson is a fit,but he made it when he still thought he was unbeatable. However I think Lewis was always in the back of his mind.

Maybe Ibeabuchi didn't fight long enough,but in his mind he was going to the top. Assault and battery was not a factor in his reasoning. He had loads of confidence.

After Tyson lost to Douglas,he couldn't hang his hat on being an intimidator with the likes of Holyfield and Lewis. All he had left was his dysfunctional mental condition.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 28 Oct 2007, 21:04

No. Buchifluchi was little more than a journeyman.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 28 Oct 2007, 21:26

I give Ibeabuchi credit, that he was willing to fight anyone. He practically jumped from fighting journeyman to guys who were difficult and being pushed as the next stars and champions. Byrd was a guy nobody wanted to fight because he was so quick and elusive and made alot of guys look like shit, while Tua could vaporise a guy with one punch.

He took them on anyways, and beat them rather convincingly. Ibeabuchi was also entertaining and was equally ready and willing to mix it up with those men, which goes to show me he would have been willing to have mixed it up with Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and others had he kept his sanity intact.

Maybe it's all just guess work, but he was one of those flashes in the pan, a shooting star in a division that was trying to thrive, he burned up just as quick as he came...but unlike the Klitschko's and others since him who failed because of "injuries", multiple retirements and getting knocked out by less than stellar opponents...Ibeabuchi died out because of a genuinely serious condition which also lead to his rape conviction.

At least his excuse was buyable and confirmed. Can't say that for Vitali.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Oct 2007, 22:06

HomicideHenry wrote:I give Ibeabuchi credit, that he was willing to fight anyone. He practically jumped from fighting journeyman to guys who were difficult and being pushed as the next stars and champions. Byrd was a guy nobody wanted to fight because he was so quick and elusive and made alot of guys look like shit, while Tua could vaporise a guy with one punch.

He took them on anyways, and beat them rather convincingly. Ibeabuchi was also entertaining and was equally ready and willing to mix it up with those men, which goes to show me he would have been willing to have mixed it up with Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and others had he kept his sanity intact.

Maybe it's all just guess work, but he was one of those flashes in the pan, a shooting star in a division that was trying to thrive, he burned up just as quick as he came...but unlike the Klitschko's and others since him who failed because of "injuries", multiple retirements and getting knocked out by less than stellar opponents...Ibeabuchi died out because of a genuinely serious condition which also lead to his rape conviction.

At least his excuse was buyable and confirmed. Can't say that for Vitali.

Did you really mean to say that he beat Tua convincingly? I don't think I've heard anyone make that claim before. He got the judges nod in a very closely fought contest.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 28 Oct 2007, 22:13

I thought it was close myself. I had it 6-5-1 for Ibeabuchi, & of course the judges scored it unanimously for Ibeabuchi, but Merchant, Lederman & co. all scored it for Tua.

Regardless, it was no robbery.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 29 Oct 2007, 01:54

I meant he beat Byrd convincingly, as far as Tua goes, I recall someone once saying it was a "life or death struggle" kind of fight. I put the man in his place by saying that there was a difference between life and death struggles and a fight being competitive.

Tua-Ibeabuchi was competitive as hell and I think held a record at one point for having the most punches thrown in a heavyweight fight. It was close, but Ibeabuchi seemed the more crisper fighter throughout.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 29 Oct 2007, 21:53

I remember when Ibeabuchi fought Tua. Ibeabuchi was supposed to be a stepping stone for Tua. But when Tua attacked Ibeabuchi slugged back. It was a great fight,Ibeabuchi outfought him. I think Tua believed when he hit him on the chin Ibeabuchi would fold. It was a close fight. Ibeabuchi fought like a tiger. This fight slowed Tua's career down,perhaps affected his confidence. He showed nothing against Lewis. His fire was gone.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 29 Oct 2007, 22:52

I can't believe someone hasn't said this yet:

Who is Ike?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 29 Oct 2007, 22:55

Marlin wrote:I can't believe someone hasn't said this yet:

Who is Ike?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Either you're saying you don't know who Ike Ibeabuchi was, or you're just stating he wasn't that great & didn't accomplish much?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Oct 2007, 02:09

I only saw it once but I had Ibeabuchi-Tua a draw. I don't think that Ibeabuchi would have beaten Lewis.

lankester · Post by **lankester** » 01 Nov 2007, 12:42

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
Marlin wrote:I can't believe someone hasn't said this yet:

Who is Ike?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Either you're saying you don't know who Ike Ibeabuchi was, or you're just stating he wasn't that great & didn't accomplish much?

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Ike Ibeabuchi-Could He Have Been the Champ?

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