ali over rated

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:02

I know that this is a beatup but can't help but think that Ali WAS overrated.

Frazier beat him fair and square in the fight of the century. and I remember when Ali took his title on the road, we all called it the bum of the month club, remember?

I think he had four or five decisions go his way because of his name
especially later in his career.

He became a legend by being the second fighter to regain the HW title (against Spinks) c'mon that shouldn't count.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:05

Grant wrote:I know that this is a beatup but can't help but think that Ali WAS overrated.

Frazier beat him fair and square in the fight of the century. and I remember when Ali took his title on the road, we all called it the bum of the month club, remember?

I think he had four or five decisions go his way because of his name
especially later in his career.

He became a legend by being the second fighter to regain the HW title (against Spinks) c'mon that shouldn't count.

It was against Foreman.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:15

Grant wrote:I know that this is a beatup but can't help but think that Ali WAS overrated.

Frazier beat him fair and square in the fight of the century. and I remember when Ali took his title on the road, we all called it the bum of the month club, remember?

I think he had four or five decisions go his way because of his name
especially later in his career.

He became a legend by being the second fighter to regain the HW title (against Spinks) c'mon that shouldn't count.

Just started following boxing, Grant? You got a lot to learn so I hope you are a young fellow with lots of time ahead to actually garner some knowledge.

The Current Scene is a good place to cut your teeth, so to speak. Plenty of instant experts and 2 pot screamers for you to spar with.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:43

OOOOPs the obvious mistake has been picked well done. I naturally meant that he became three time champion against a blown up light heavyweight named spinks. Thats what I meant to say OK!!!!

Anyway what about the Ali Frazier claim? or the Bum of the Month?

I think there are some heavies who had better records than Muhammad is all.

Would loved to have seen Dempsey against 'the greatest" too but unfortunately its all speculation isn't it.

Gene Tunney is vastley underrated in my book.

I know Bernard Briggs thinks Toney has an edge on Ali,

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:46

Grant wrote:OOOOPs the obvious mistake has been picked well done. I naturally meant that he became three time champion against a blown up light heavyweight named spinks. Thats what I meant to say OK!!!!

Anyway what about the Ali Frazier claim? or the Bum of the Month?

I think there are some heavies who had better records than Muhammad is all.

Would loved to have seen Dempsey against 'the greatest" too but unfortunately its all speculation isn't it.

Gene Tunney is vastley underrated in my book.

I know Bernard Briggs thinks Toney has an edge on Ali,

Bernard hasn't been well since the alien abduction thing has he?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Nov 2007, 02:51

Grant wrote:OOOOPs the obvious mistake has been picked well done. I naturally meant that he became three time champion against a blown up light heavyweight named spinks. Thats what I meant to say OK!!!!

Anyway what about the Ali Frazier claim? or the Bum of the Month?

I think there are some heavies who had better records than Muhammad is all.

Would loved to have seen Dempsey against 'the greatest" too but unfortunately its all speculation isn't it.
Gene Tunney is vastley underrated in my book.

I know Bernard Briggs thinks Toney has an edge on Ali,

Of course it's all speculation, Grant. But if, as in your case, the knowledge of the speculator is so limited, he's unlikely to get much respect. Except from Bernard, of course. But Bernard doesn't really count as he's 3 prawns short of a barbie, mate.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 02 Nov 2007, 04:03

Grant wrote:or the Bum of the Month?

No, you're thinking of Joe Louis' title challengers. Ali fought and beat better opposition than any other Heavyweight.

Frazier lost two rematches to Ali. People have developed quite a bit of amnesia on that point.

This thread should be deleted.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Nov 2007, 04:38

I Feel Fine wrote:
Grant wrote:or the Bum of the Month?
No, you're thinking of Joe Louis' title challengers. Ali fought and beat better opposition than any other Heavyweight.

Frazier lost two rematches to Ali. People have developed quite a bit of amnesia on that point.

This thread should be deleted.

Come on. Grant just got Ali & Louis mixed up. Happens all he time when your boxing knowldege is almost non-existant. Still, him and fellow countryman Bernard provide up with some cheap laughs so we shouldn't really complain.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Nov 2007, 19:32

Collins2000 wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:
Grant wrote:or the Bum of the Month?
No, you're thinking of Joe Louis' title challengers. Ali fought and beat better opposition than any other Heavyweight.

Frazier lost two rematches to Ali. People have developed quite a bit of amnesia on that point.

This thread should be deleted.
Come on. Grant just got Ali & Louis mixed up. Happens all he time when your boxing knowldege is almost non-existant. Still, him and fellow countryman Bernard provide up with some cheap laughs so we shouldn't really complain.

How are these new interested contributors going to gain confidence in our forum if you make a big thing out of someone simply getting mixed up on some old fighters who had so many obvious similiarities?

Top Ten Reasons to get them mixed up.

*Each fighter had both vowels and consonants in their names.
*Both had similar ethnic backgrounds
*Both were associated (in different ways) with military service
*Both fought "in the old days"
*Both were Heavyweights
*Both were considered undisputed champion during their respective careers
*They were rarely seen together in public at the same time.
*Both showed loss of simulance in language dexterity in their later years.
*Each were featured on the cover of both "The Ring" and "Sports Illustrated" Magazines.

And the biggest reason they often get mixed up?

They both faced off against and defeated their Light Heavyweight Champion counterparts.

These kinds of things create confusion and should not be nitpicked.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 02 Nov 2007, 20:34

BoxBuzz wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:No, you're thinking of Joe Louis' title challengers. Ali fought and beat better opposition than any other Heavyweight.

Frazier lost two rematches to Ali. People have developed quite a bit of amnesia on that point.

This thread should be deleted.
Come on. Grant just got Ali & Louis mixed up. Happens all he time when your boxing knowldege is almost non-existant. Still, him and fellow countryman Bernard provide up with some cheap laughs so we shouldn't really complain.

How are these new interested contributors going to gain confidence in our forum if you make a big thing out of someone simply getting mixed up on some old fighters who had so many obvious similiarities?

Top Ten Reasons to get them mixed up.

*Each fighter had both vowels and consonants in their names.
*Both had similar ethnic backgrounds
*Both were associated (in different ways) with military service
*Both fought "in the old days"
*Both were Heavyweights
*Both were considered undisputed champion during their respective careers
*They were rarely seen together in public at the same time.
*Both showed loss of simulance in language dexterity in their later years.
*Each were featured on the cover of both "The Ring" and "Sports Illustrated" Magazines.

And the biggest reason they often get mixed up?

They both faced off against and defeated their Light Heavyweight Champion counterparts.

These kinds of things create confusion and should not be nitpicked.

Yeah, thanks for helping him out, Buzzy. Once he is able to identify Ali and Louis correctly maybe he can give us his take on the John Holmes - Barry Shavers trilogy particlarly the bout where Henry Cosell's codpiece was dislodged in a post-fight fracas. I believe Wesley Snipes fought Reese Witherspoon on the undercard to that one.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 02 Nov 2007, 22:59

Snipes -vs- Witherspoon is something I would pay to see. If it's the Witherspoon from Freeway that shows up Snipes could be in trouble.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 03 Nov 2007, 12:20

granberry wrote:
Sir Psycho wrote:I detest Ali but I have nothing on this granberry guy You woud think Ali was Hitler.
Ali was a fighter who was beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper but then was supposedly able to beat Sonny Liston.

After his fake one punch knockout over Liston, in his very next fight
Ali showed he had no punching power at all against a sore-backed Patterson.

Ali's magic Liston "punch" was also completely absent as he struggled for 39 rounds with Ken Norton, 30 rounds with Leon Spinks, and tried as hard as he could to KO Terrell with his circular slaps without ever scoring a knockdown.

We are instructed to thrill to Ali's win over Cleveland Williams, who was missing one kidney, ten feet of his small intestine, and had a shriveled left leg from the nerve damage from the bullet he was shot with a year and a half before he "fought" Ali.

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and beat him thoroughly, Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons

but the news media, who collectively never had a single fight out on the playground at school, instruct us that their Ali was the greatest of all time (whatever that means).

Someone who is talking sense at last. The media hacks who call Ali the greatest of all time, can count the number of fighters they know about on one hand. They are clueless. The Daily press (tabloids) in Britain is full of them.

Anyway, was Ali a great fighter? Sure he was.

Was he the greatest of all time? Nope, there were many better.

Was he the greatest HW of all time? Nope. But he was one of the greatest.

You cant get Rose tinted lenses for spectacles any more, cause the Ali fans have the entire worlds supply.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 03 Nov 2007, 12:39

Sense at last? I think we've heard every one of those postulants ad nauseum. Some have more merit than others. Some are pure fiction and some are purely speculation.

But it's not a defining moment for this topic or even this thread.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 03 Nov 2007, 16:19

Graham Brett wrote:Was he the greatest HW of all time? Nope.

Who was the best? Sullivan? Jeffries? Dempsey? Maybe Ingemar Johannson?

I'm a bit tired of all the condescending comments about Ali fans on this forum. Ali fans are no more or less biased than any other group of fans. Certainly no more biased than Louis or Marciano fans. Ali fans will never be on par with hardcore Mike Tyson fans.

Seriously, come off it.

jaafar · Post by **jaafar** » 04 Nov 2007, 00:30

lol, who the fornicate is this Granberry clown?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 04 Nov 2007, 01:21

jaafar wrote:lol, who the eff is this Granberry clown?

I see you're still here Jaafar?

Oh yeah, Mundine is still fighting so it figures

But when he finally retires.........then what?

As for Ali being overrated? Nnnnnope

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 04 Nov 2007, 13:46

why do ali haters keep saying he was overrated he fought the best fighters in his division beat them all even when he was past his prime lay off the poor bloke everyweek there is someone saying ali is overrated

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 06 Nov 2007, 02:39

Grant wrote:I know that this is a beatup but can't help but think that Ali WAS overrated.

Frazier beat him fair and square in the fight of the century. and I remember when Ali took his title on the road, we all called it the bum of the month club, remember?

I think he had four or five decisions go his way because of his name
especially later in his career.

He became a legend by being the second fighter to regain the HW title (against Spinks) c'mon that shouldn't count.

Frazier got a big help from Ali's enforced three year absence from the ring. Ali fought him after only a two fight preparation. He came back from that to beat Frazier twice, as well as beating the seemingly unbeatable George Foreman, then 25 years old. Self same Foreman later made a return and beat most of the men around in the late eighties and early nineties. You know, the Tyson era?

Foreman, not Spinks, was the man Ali beat to become the second man to regain the heavyweight title. Spinks made him the first to regain it twice.

Get your facts straight, sonny.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 06 Nov 2007, 06:08

thought i corrected that Sir, Yeah Spinks really was a feather in his Cap,
oh how do you think Spinks would go against Toney......

C'mon all I am saying is Ali is in the mix when you consider who was the greatest heavweight of all time..... Lets not keep this thread going, it aint worth it.

BERNARD BRIGGS. · Post by **BERNARD BRIGGS.** » 29 Nov 2007, 00:23

i have never tried to upset anyone with my prognostications on Ali as I do admire his abilitys and he would possibly be in the top 20 of all time heavyweights ...... well maybe just

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 29 Nov 2007, 00:57

ali is a legend, inside the ring, and outside the ring.

'nuff said

SD-Prophecy · Post by **SD-Prophecy** » 29 Nov 2007, 02:57

ALI IS WAY TOO OVERRATED

BERNARD BRIGGS. · Post by **BERNARD BRIGGS.** » 30 Nov 2007, 00:25

If it wasnt for his charisma and ability to tell us and make us believe he was the greatest as he pummeled stiffs he would be ranked alongside boxers of the ability James Toney

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 01 Dec 2007, 22:37

toney didn's Humiliate Foreman, Frazier, Liston etc.........

HE was dynamic in the ring, and Outside the Ring. Not just as a Sportsman, but as an Athelete.

Ali has given Boxing attention probably more than anyone else

chiricahua · Post by **chiricahua** » 04 Dec 2007, 12:20

MatthewS wrote:we should have a little 10 point quiz to decide if people are allowed on here.

How the eff was Ali over-rated? Someone tell me in a PROPER thought out post...... No? because he is not.

Excellent hand speed, great technique, good footwork.

Would beat Klitschko, Briggs and Maskaev.

If he did not beat Valuev it would be nothing to do with being over-rated, it would be Valuevs size...

If thats your opinion mate then fair play to you.

I agree 100%Ali would crush Klitschko, Briggs and Maskaev easily.
All these heavyweights today are very far from all time great statust