British Top 30 P4P November 2007

[Horse]

1. (1.) Ricky Hatton
2. (2.) Joe Calzaghe
3. (3.) Junior Witter
4. (4.) Clinton Woods
5. (5.) Alex Arthur
6. (6.) Enzo Maccarinelli
7. (7.) Scott Harrison
8. (8.) David Haye
9. (9.) Gavin Rees
10. (10.) Carl Froch

11. (11.) Jamie Moore
12. (12.) Nicky Cook
13. (13.) Bernard Dunne
14. (15.) Matt Skelton
15. (16.) Wayne Elcock
16. (17.) Wayne McCullough
17. (18.) Ted Bami
18. (19.) Colin Lynes
19. (20.) Kevin Anderson
20. (21.) Howard Eastman

21. (22.) John Duddy
22. (23.) Michael Hunter
23. (29.) Carl Johanneson
24. (24.) Esham Pickering
25. (RE.) Jonathan Thaxton
26. (RE.) Bradley Pryce
27. (25.) John Simpson
28. (26.) Brian Magee
29. (27.) Robin Reid
30. (28.) Graham Earl

Out - (14.) Damaen Kelly - Retired
Out - (30.) Danny Williams

[stujones]

Still no Derry Matthews? Thought Matthew Marsh a decent, unbeaten, Area champion was credible enough to push him clear of Simpson now... when you add it with the other bits to his resume.

I know it wasn't a key component in your arguement - but you did keep refering to Ryan Barratt as a decent win in the interim between him LOSING to Matthews. Well, surely Marsh is better than Barrat.

[bigped]

[quote="stujones"]Still no Derry Matthews? Thought Matthew Marsh a decent, unbeaten, Area champion was credible enough to push him clear of Simpson now... when you add it with the other bits to his resume.

I know it wasn't a key component in your arguement - but you did keep refering to Ryan Barratt as a decent win in the interim between him LOSING to Matthews. Well, surely Marsh is better than Barrat.[/quote

I hope simpson goes back in with matthews really think hes better than him, but maybe am just biased as i dnt like matthews as a person

[m1kee50]

1. (1.) Ricky Hatton
2. (2.) Joe Calzaghe
3. (3.) Junior Witter
4. (4.) Clinton Woods
5. (5.) Alex Arthur
6. (6.) Enzo Maccarinelli
7. (7.) Scott Harrison
8. (8.) David Haye
9. (9.) Gavin Rees
10. (10.) Carl Froch

Slow month, I can dig that - but Harrison announces a fight so he stays immobile?

11. (11.) Jamie Moore
12. (12.) Nicky Cook
13. (13.) Bernard Dunne
14. (15.) Matt Skelton
15. (16.) Wayne Elcock
16. (17.) Wayne McCullough
17. (18.) Ted Bami
18. (19.) Colin Lynes
19. (20.) Kevin Anderson
20. (21.) Howard Eastman

McCullough IS fighting soon I grant you, I'm just putting the moan on record...

21. (22.) John Duddy
22. (23.) Michael Hunter
23. (29.) Carl Johanneson
24. (24.) Esham Pickering
25. (RE.) Jonathan Thaxton
26. (RE.) Bradley Pryce
27. (25.) John Simpson
28. (26.) Brian Magee
29. (27.) Robin Reid
30. (28.) Graham Earl

Out - (14.) Damaen Kelly - Retired
Out - (30.) Danny Williams

Bottom ten look fine to me.

[Horse]

Still no Derry Matthews? Thought Matthew Marsh a decent, unbeaten, Area champion was credible enough to push him clear of Simpson now... when you add it with the other bits to his resume.

I just didn't think that a win over Marsh was enough to get Matthews into the list, especially with other non-listers entering the list this Month.

I know it wasn't a key component in your arguement - but you did keep refering to Ryan Barratt as a decent win in the interim between him LOSING to Matthews. Well, surely Marsh is better than Barrat.

Yes, I do consider Marsh better than Barrett and I will take that into consideration when Matthews wins his next fight.

[Horse]

I hope simpson goes back in with matthews really think hes better than him, but maybe am just biased as i dnt like matthews as a person

I like both fighters, so I would prefer to see them going down separate paths until they reach a higher level.

[Horse]

Slow month, I can dig that - but Harrison announces a fight so he stays immobile?

You think he should have gone up?

McCullough IS fighting soon I grant you, I'm just putting the moan on record...

He is back, my reputation is saved.

Bottom ten look fine to me.

Thank you.

[The Blade]

1. (1.) Ricky Hatton
2. (2.) Joe Calzaghe
3. (3.) Junior Witter
4. (4.) Clinton Woods
5. (5.) Alex Arthur
6. (6.) Enzo Maccarinelli
7. (7.) Scott Harrison
8. (8.) David Haye
9. (9.) Gavin Rees
10. (10.) Carl Froch

11. (11.) Jamie Moore
12. (12.) Nicky Cook
13. (13.) Bernard Dunne
14. (15.) Matt Skelton
15. (16.) Wayne Elcock
16. (17.) Wayne McCullough
17. (18.) Ted Bami
18. (19.) Colin Lynes
19. (20.) Kevin Anderson
20. (21.) Howard Eastman

21. (22.) John Duddy
22. (23.) Michael Hunter
23. (29.) Carl Johanneson
24. (24.) Esham Pickering
25. (RE.) Jonathan Thaxton
26. (RE.) Bradley Pryce
27. (25.) John Simpson
28. (26.) Brian Magee
29. (27.) Robin Reid
30. (28.) Graham Earl

Out - (14.) Damaen Kelly - Retired
Out - (30.) Danny Williams

total shite .... how does Hatton get above Calzaghe. Luis Collazo? Juan Urango? Come on, get real.

[Captain Hook]

Why do we even debate this when Horse puts this shit up?

Scott Harrison is still there.

[Horse]

total shite .... how does Hatton get above Calzaghe. Luis Collazo? Juan Urango? Come on, get real.

A lot of people had Hatton above Calzaghe, it was actually the majority opinion, so maybe you should get real.

[m1kee50]

Slow month, I can dig that - but Harrison announces a fight so he stays immobile?

You think he should have gone up?

McCullough IS fighting soon I grant you, I'm just putting the moan on record...

He is back, my reputation is saved.

Bottom ten look fine to me.

Thank you.

no i effing dont, lol

i take it that Calzaghe will be #1 for December and Hatton restored in January?

[Max Molyneux]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

His wins are no better and he never defended his championship and just went money chasing.

Plus he was only rated more on two at the right time wins.

[Horse]

For Hatton the fights have led to a bout with Floyd. I imagine Horse may not be wanting to jump the gun post-Kessler by putting Joe top only to switch them the moment Hatton wins. If he did that his list would be one of trends and not merit.

I did this list a few days before the Calzaghe victory over Kessler, so I may well put Calzaghe above Hatton next Month. Though I don't think it would make the list about trends rather than merits if I do.

[Max Molyneux]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

His wins are no better and he never defended his championship and just went money chasing.

Plus he was only rated more on two at the right time wins.

Tszyu is a better win than Kessler or Lacy. Neither man was proven long term. He still holds a linear title, one he won prior to Joe attempting it, and is now fighting for a high P4P spot.

I have no idea what you are saying in the second remark.

Yeah, Tszyu's a good win but one win alone shouldn't have him ahead.

[n1ebf]

I have never subscribed to the idea that Hatton is a better boxer than Calzaghe, and that stems from way back before the Lacy fight.
Whatever the criticisms of the level at which Joe has boxed he has always looked capable of beating much better fighters than he's boxed for the most part, and Saturday night just illustrated that point.

[Horse]

Why do we even debate this when Horse puts this shit up?

Why not, eh? Anyway, what is so sh*t about it apart from a few inactive fighters.

Scott Harrison is still there.

I am not going to take him off just after he has announced his comeback.

[Captain Hook]

Because:

a) Who are you?
b) Why are there only 30 rather than 10, 25 or 30?
c) Nobody on here agrees with half of it, the other half is ridiculous.

Fighters seem to go own or disappear out of it when they win!

[Horse]

Slow month, I can dig that - but Harrison announces a fight so he stays immobile?

You think he should have gone up?

McCullough IS fighting soon I grant you, I'm just putting the moan on record...

He is back, my reputation is saved.

Bottom ten look fine to me.

Thank you.

no i effing dont, lol

i take it that Calzaghe will be #1 for December and Hatton restored in January?

That is a likely scenario.

[m1kee50]

Because:

a) Who are you?
b) Why are there only 30 rather than 10, 25 or 30?
c) Nobody on here agrees with half of it, the other half is ridiculous.

Fighters seem to go own or disappear out of it when they win!

Who are you? if he wants to put him up and provoke some discussion, let him...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

In the interim both he and Joe have taken on some marking time fights. For Joe the marking time fights were leading to a bout with Kessler. Collzao and Urango are about as real as Manfredo, Bika and Ashira.

For Hatton the fights have led to a bout with Floyd. I imagine Horse may not be wanting to jump the gun post-Kessler by putting Joe top only to switch them the moment Hatton wins. If he did that his list would be one of trends and not merit.

It is a questions of whether you pick Tszyu and Castillo as so excessively old they cancel out the Lacy and Kessler wins. Castillo was old but that is counter balanced by the fact that, in boxing terms, Lacy has shit for brains so that leaves us asking if Tszyu or Kessler is the better win.

Unquestionably Tszyu is the better win.

I don't know Terry.

I think Calzaghe deserves to be ranked higher now. Lacy was a hot young fighter who most thought would win on both sides of the atlantic. Kessler was a streaking champion with everything to prove.

What takes the edge off it for me, is the feeling that Tszyu already had a foot in retirement, the fact he hasn't bothered coming back hints towards that.

Calzaghe also has a decade of dominance, though of course this can be poked at due to the quality of some opposition.

He also has better skills than Hatton, and is a more versatile fighter, which is something which should certainly be taken into consideration, for me anyway, whilst compiling pound for pound lists. He is a more complete fighter than Hatton, and the fact he still looks so good at 35 is testament to how talented he is.

Calzaghe moves up to 3 for me. Hatton is at number 6.

Interestingly, most of the Yank scribes seem to have Hatton at #3.

[Autobarn]

Calzaghe #1 for me. It was a tricky one, to decide when he truly became champion. But cleaning up like he did this year and last makes a lot of the previous stuff more forgivable (I can enjoy him beating on Pocker Dudwill without feeling guilty now).

Plus, Joe has proven he can adjust to styles, especially in the last 2 main fights. Hatton's not had to do too much of that. On his best nights he overwhelms ppl with fast hands, good balance, fast feet & constant pressure. I need something a bit extra to erase Urango & Collazo.

A strong showing v Mayweather will go some way, but it's clear to me that Joe is superior to Ricky (who I rate very highly).

They both suffered from mid career/Warren sag but both have delivered when it matters.

[sweetscience]

JC defo #1

hatton can only over take him if he beats PBF

even if he loses a split then he is still # 2

[n1ebf]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

In the interim both he and Joe have taken on some marking time fights. For Joe the marking time fights were leading to a bout with Kessler. Collzao and Urango are about as real as Manfredo, Bika and Ashira.

For Hatton the fights have led to a bout with Floyd. I imagine Horse may not be wanting to jump the gun post-Kessler by putting Joe top only to switch them the moment Hatton wins. If he did that his list would be one of trends and not merit.

It is a questions of whether you pick Tszyu and Castillo as so excessively old they cancel out the Lacy and Kessler wins. Castillo was old but that is counter balanced by the fact that, in boxing terms, Lacy has shit for brains so that leaves us asking if Tszyu or Kessler is the better win.

Unquestionably Tszyu is the better win.

I don't know Terry.

I think Calzaghe deserves to be ranked higher now. Lacy was a hot young fighter who most thought would win on both sides of the atlantic. Kessler was a streaking champion with everything to prove.

What takes the edge off it for me, is the feeling that Tszyu already had a foot in retirement, the fact he hasn't bothered coming back hints towards that.

Calzaghe also has a decade of dominance, though of course this can be poked at due to the quality of some opposition.

He also has better skills than Hatton, and is a more versatile fighter, which is something which should certainly be taken into consideration, for me anyway, whilst compiling pound for pound lists. He is a more complete fighter than Hatton, and the fact he still looks so good at 35 is testament to how talented he is.

Calzaghe moves up to 3 for me. Hatton is at number 6.

Interestingly, most of the Yank scribes seem to have Hatton at #3.

Who are these 2 British boxers James who you think are better than Calzaghe, and also who (including Calzaghe) are the 5 Brit boxers who you believe are better than Ricky Hatton, GIVEN that the former has just unified the SM division (an accomplishment no other Brit has ever achieved)...and the latter is challenging the so called pound for pound best in his next fight?
Or do you need to go away and have a rethink?

[Horse]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

His wins are no better and he never defended his championship and just went money chasing.

Plus he was only rated more on two at the right time wins.

Hatton defended his Light Welterweight title against Maussa, Urango and Castillo.

[states]

Like it or not Hatton has beaten a truly recognised Champion in the recent years whereas Joe became a true Champion on Saturday night.

In the interim both he and Joe have taken on some marking time fights. For Joe the marking time fights were leading to a bout with Kessler. Collzao and Urango are about as real as Manfredo, Bika and Ashira.

For Hatton the fights have led to a bout with Floyd. I imagine Horse may not be wanting to jump the gun post-Kessler by putting Joe top only to switch them the moment Hatton wins. If he did that his list would be one of trends and not merit.

It is a questions of whether you pick Tszyu and Castillo as so excessively old they cancel out the Lacy and Kessler wins. Castillo was old but that is counter balanced by the fact that, in boxing terms, Lacy has shit for brains so that leaves us asking if Tszyu or Kessler is the better win.

Unquestionably Tszyu is the better win.

I don't know Terry.

I think Calzaghe deserves to be ranked higher now. Lacy was a hot young fighter who most thought would win on both sides of the atlantic. Kessler was a streaking champion with everything to prove.

What takes the edge off it for me, is the feeling that Tszyu already had a foot in retirement, the fact he hasn't bothered coming back hints towards that.

Calzaghe also has a decade of dominance, though of course this can be poked at due to the quality of some opposition.

He also has better skills than Hatton, and is a more versatile fighter, which is something which should certainly be taken into consideration, for me anyway, whilst compiling pound for pound lists. He is a more complete fighter than Hatton, and the fact he still looks so good at 35 is testament to how talented he is.

Calzaghe moves up to 3 for me. Hatton is at number 6.

Interestingly, most of the Yank scribes seem to have Hatton at #3.

Who are these 2 British boxers James who you think are better than Calzaghe, and also who (including Calzaghe) are the 5 Brit boxers who you believe are better than Ricky Hatton, GIVEN that the former has just unified the SM division (an accomplishment no other Brit has ever achieved)...and the latter is challenging the so called pound for pound best in his next fight?
Or do you need to go away and have a rethink?

Just a guess, but I think he may be talking about worldwide p4p, not British.......