Reasons why Team USA is not as good as they can be

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 10 Nov 2007, 17:31

Mel - I will contact USA Boxing with my suggestion and I'll let you know what comes of it.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 10 Nov 2007, 17:34

Hal - I agree that learning how to work the scoring system is important, but there might be drills and exercises that coaches can pick-up at the clinics to help teach their boxers. I really want to get the level 3 certification ASAP.

TonyHanne · Post by **TonyHanne** » 11 Nov 2007, 05:20

HI from Germany!

From my experience from a USA trainer, the trainer seem more focus on throwing powerful ko punch and a professional style. In amatuer many top boxers I know seem to almost play tag and this is very good for winnings. You notice that many top USA boxers do great in professional with there style because it is made well. USA has to decide to be either good at amatuer or professional systems. I dont think year long camp will correct a lifetime of different teaching, but we will see.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 11 Nov 2007, 16:14

Some of the countries that do well in the Olympics are starting to do very well in the pros, especially Russia/Ukraine in the Heavyweight division. Wlad Klitschko didn't pitter-pat as as amateur and he still doesn't as a pro.

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 13 Nov 2007, 16:39

Dennis I think you will be surprised when you go to see that most of the certification is based on knowing the rules and some basic cardio training such as plyometrics and sprint work. I did learn things about dehydration, but they admittedly said they were not there to teach you how to train your boxer technically.I got my 1 locally from Jim McNally, my 2 during the week long tournament at the Jr Olympics in Marquette my 3 up at the Olympic training center in Lake Placid and my 4 at a week long seminar at the Olympic center in Co. springs. I passed the course and waited for my level 4 card but it never came. I called the instructor and was told to call Co who told me to call the instructor who said call CO. and so on and so on. I took my CPR. I had coached in National events everything but they said they lost all the material. Now your talking about air fare to Co. and missing a week from work to get this done. I became such a pain in the ass to get this finalized that at one point the instructor told me it isn't that important anyway so don't worry about it. But it had become a matter of principle. This went on for about 3 years until I got so frustrated that I did some well deserved venting to some new people at USA Boxing. The next thing I know I got my level 4 in the mail. If it did anything to make
me a better coach, it taught me perseverance and that's all. Oh, and I did meet some really good people that I got to know better as time went on.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 13 Nov 2007, 23:12

Hal - I'm not expecting to learn a lot of new info or techniques. However, I might learn something so I'll take my chances.

I need the level 3, then 4 just so I can do more upper level clinics. I'm renewing my officials certificiation tomorrow night so that I can continue to help out when shows are low on officials. I also like to see it from the other side of the table so to speak. It helps me to be a better coach since I know what judges look for while scoring the bouts.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 13 Nov 2007, 23:28

I also like to see it from the other side of the table so to speak. It helps me to be a better coach since I know what judges look for while scoring the bouts.

Heh heh. Can't say you got robbed any more!

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 14 Nov 2007, 01:02

I never really said that anyway. I thought that sometimes there were some hometown decisions, but they were always close bouts.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 14 Nov 2007, 10:07

Sorry, I was speaking generally and not specifically. Most coaches do get robbed and I'm glad you're not one of them. 8)

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 14 Nov 2007, 14:24

Best way to avoid being robbed is by not allowing the bout to be close. I do know what you mean though Mel. Some coaches claim they got robbed every single time their boxers lose. Come on now.

The last show I judged one coach was complaining about his guy getting robbed and I thought "what bout was he watching". It was a 3-0 decision and all 3 judges had the other guy clearly winning. The timekeeper said to me "Is he joking? His guy clearly lost."

I'm renewing my official's certification tonight. I will be giving another coaches' clinic next month. I give about 5 of them a year.

Mel - were there any rule changes at the annual meeting? If so, I want to know about them before I give the coaches' clinic.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 16 Nov 2007, 10:46

No rule changes at all. Supposedly there will be "house cleaning" and " tidying up of words" sometime next year - whatever that means. The only two world changes were that there is no longer an age limit for AIBA and you can have worked in the pros in the past and be eligible.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 17 Nov 2007, 13:37

boxmel wrote:No rule changes at all. Supposedly there will be "house cleaning" and " tidying up of words" sometime next year - whatever that means. The only two world changes were that there is no longer an age limit for AIBA and you can have worked in the pros in the past and be eligible.

I'm assuming you are talking about rules for the officials with the age limit and former pro work.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 17 Nov 2007, 13:39

By the way Mel, it is now IBA and not AIBA. Easier to say! "E - buh" vs the old "eye - E - buh".

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 17 Nov 2007, 13:45

It is being discussed that there will be at least a level 3 Official's clinic and at least a level 3 Coach's clinic at the 2008 National Golden Gloves Tournament in Grand Rapids, MI. The tourney is May 5 - 10, 2008.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 17 Nov 2007, 17:11

Dennis, the official logo still has an "A" so it still looks like "AIBA." This is because there is already a pro boxing organization called "IBA." I will continue to call our IF "AIBA." There will probably also be a Level 3 officials test given at the Championships in March. You might email Tom Coulter about also offering a Coache's clinic there, if he doesn't already have it planned.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 17 Nov 2007, 19:06

The name is still AIBA but it means only International Boxing Association. They have dumped the word "amateur".

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 17 Nov 2007, 19:45

boxmel wrote:Dennis, the official logo still has an "A" so it still looks like "AIBA." This is because there is already a pro boxing organization called "IBA." I will continue to call our IF "AIBA." There will probably also be a Level 3 officials test given at the Championships in March. You might email Tom Coulter about also offering a Coache's clinic there, if he doesn't already have it planned.

AIBA or IBA is going to have an identity crisis. It will be very confusing for all. I just liked the idea of an easier name. It is starting to sound like "the artist formerly known as Prince" situation.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 17 Nov 2007, 19:48

Mel - I will check into the coach's clinic at the US Championships.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 17 Nov 2007, 22:43

AIBA or IBA is going to have an identity crisis. It will be very confusing for all. I just liked the idea of an easier name. It is starting to sound like "the artist formerly known as Prince" situation.

Unfortunately, it's probably going to turn into a "sport formerly known as amateur boxing" situation.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 18 Nov 2007, 18:49

boxmel wrote:
AIBA or IBA is going to have an identity crisis. It will be very confusing for all. I just liked the idea of an easier name. It is starting to sound like "the artist formerly known as Prince" situation.
Unfortunately, it's probably going to turn into a "sport formerly known as amateur boxing" situation.

That is the way it is starting to look.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 27 Nov 2007, 11:41

I posted this in another thread, but I thought I should also post it here. The info is appropriate for what will make the US boxers more competitive in the Olympics.

Currently, the US Olympic boxers are gaining that international experience that is critical to be able to perform well in international competitions by competing in Beijing's test event and the duals. The US does need to get more boxers involved in international competitions. More duals and international competitions in the US and a bunch more duals outside of the US. Every boxer in the top 10 should get the opportunity to compete at least once in an international competition. If we did that, we would have better boxers who would then make everyone else in the US better and our Olympians would win more medals.

I know the above would cost $$$$, but I'm told that the money is there from the USOC and USA Boxing just needs to send the teams. I also want to say that more coaches should be selected for these competitions to give them that experience.

Finally, I will say once again that we need more coaches clinics. I believe we will be having a level 3 and possibly a level 4 clinic at the 2008 National Golden Gloves in Grand Rapids, MI. I hope that many coaches will participate so that we have more coaches that can then participate in international competitions.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 27 Nov 2007, 12:36

locoxelbox wrote:The name is still AIBA but it means only International Boxing Association. They have dumped the word "amateur".

It is still AIBA but called International Boxing Association. IBA was already taken and by still calling it AIBA, it is a combination of the English and French acromyn. Association de boxe international and International boxing association.

JohnDoe · Post by **JohnDoe** » 27 Nov 2007, 23:16

USA Boxing definitely needs to alter the system so the best coaches and the personal coaches of the 11 winning boxers are able to work the corners. If that means making it easier to do level 3 and level 4, so be it.

I have heard nothing but complaints from almost all the boxers and their coaches of the current Olympic team for how Dan Campbell is training. Not only is he nothing but a power tripper who has never made a boxer nor knows how to train an amateur boxer at an elite championships level, he treats people in a very arrogant manner which further turns the athletes, the coaches and their families off. I have heard nothing positive for what he is doing with the boxers in Colorado Springs and if there is someone here with a boxer there that has something positive to say, please say it.

My best advice for the athletes on the team right now is to do whatever you can apart from USA Boxing because they aren't going to improve before the Olympics. Warren and Andrade won because of the many years of great boxing knowledge instilled in them by their trainers/fathers.

And that bottle of Hennessey that I personally saw Campbell getting drunk on one night in the middle of the World Championships isn't the best example of an Olympic coach- especially one that gets paid as much as he does....It's just like Tupac said: "And that Hennessey don't help. That Hennessey don't help."

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Nov 2007, 23:38

JohnDoe - do you EVER have anything positive to say???

USA Boxing definitely needs to alter the system so the best coaches and the personal coaches of the 11 winning boxers are able to work the corners.

Personal coaches can work corners domestically and most of them do. The IOC dictates how many people in a country's delegation for the Olympics and AIBA dictates for a World Championship or Pan Am Games. USA Boxing is not able to alter those systems.

If you have real concerns about Dan Campbell, why don't you address them with Jim Millman or Tom Virgets rather than posting your opinions/views/feelings here? I have personally seen Dan at many events over the years and have never seen him with a bottle of booze or drunk.

Again, my advice to you is to take your concerns up with USA Boxing. There isn't anyone posting on this forum who can affect any changes.

Hmmm - wonder if I would feel better about you if you weren't hiding behind the JohnDoe alias.............nah, probably not.

JohnDoe · Post by **JohnDoe** » 28 Nov 2007, 17:11

Oh, you want to get personal do you? Nothing positive to say? What's this:

"Warren and Andrade won because of the many years of great boxing knowledge instilled in them by their trainers/fathers."

That's not positive? I love when someone who can't handle the truth or having someone disagree with what they believe in resorts to that : "Can't you just be positive? argument.

As far as me hiding behind an alias, that's about as an intelligent criticism as saying someone who gives an anonymous tip about a crime for a company they work for is hiding. But seeing how you can't stick to the facts BoxMel and want to open yourself up to the same kind of criticism of personal character, how about this:

Don't you ever wonder that you are not always right? That you are not the amateur boxing supreme court of what facts are truthful and where and to who they should be addressed?

Forums are for voicing opinion in a public way. Millman isn't going to do anything and USA Boxing isn't going to do anything...but at least I can connect here with all the very talented coaches and boxers who feel the same way and keep on moving their dreams forward despite the negative power tripping of the powers that be.

Maybe you need a shot of Hennessey yourself to help you swallow the truth?